I need help.  I want to build on my skills as a groomer and have been fortunate to be given the name of a very good grooming school in Oxford, the only problem really is distance!  Ideally I would like to train nearer to home with a groomer who isn't clipper happy!  Somone who doesn't necessary clip of a Westie using a 5F. I know good groomers do not like sharing their skills but if anyone knows anyone who is willing to help me for a fee, in the North Cambs/Norfolk area, I would be very grateful.  Please PM me.

It's the same as buying a quality puppy Yolanda72, you only have to do the journey once and you're set up with the right puppy for the next 15 years!! :)

Looks like they are a bit thin on the ground?? ;)

I'm doomed! 

:)

>Somone who doesn't necessary clip of a Westie using a 5F.<

ROFLOL :-D  when I see they way some westies are trimmed the 5f is the last thing that worries me .. the whole shape needs to be practiced.  

You have no idea the people I get who have just had their dogs trimmed 4 weeks ago and it looks anything like a westies :-)

I often wonder if some people even open a book or look at a picture before the dive in :-D :-D .

Don't get me wrong I was trained to clip using a 5F and the Westie's do look nice.....but not natural.  I want to learn how to keep their round heads etc, but alas I will have to continue to save my pennies for the school Val recommended to me.  It would seem no groomer (experienced) wants to help.  I don't necessarily want a groomer on my doorstep to teach, I understand that we are all in competition. I will travel a bit if this helps!!!!

The vast majority will also be using a 5F and so wouldn't understand what the natural look that you want is!!! ;)

Exactly Val,

I think very few grooming schools seem to have it right. Some breeds are not as easy as it look ;-)

Probably still  the reason I stick to WH

Like the ones that clip a American cocker Perfectly, If he was an English cocker :( :( :( good on you for wanting to do things properly :D
Lea :)

I know desynadog (sp) in Kings Lynn do grooming courses, but dont know much about them.

I agree Blue - a 5F is the least of my worries too. The whole shape of the dog doesn't seem to be taken into account. Why is it so hard to get a decent Westie pet clip done by a professional dog groomer? I also have people who are desperately looking for a decent Westie pet trim - they want a Westie to look like a Westie not an imitation of another breed. 

OK, you have all said that no groomer can appear to achieve the 'Westie' look.  So in your opinions, what is the correct Westie look?

The breed standard, a little shorted for a pet, with the body coat about 2" long, blended into the skirt (not looking like a hovercraft!), with a chrysanthmum head and an inverted carrot tail!! :)
There is no reason why a Westie can't look like a Westie and have a full doggy life if the owner is prepared to spend just 5 minutes a day with a comb in their hand. ;)

I agree but having groomed a Bouvier des Flandres yesterday, its clear that owners still have no idea how to properly groom their dog! Even the little ones!  As always Val, I bow down to your knowledge.  I have a Westie pup that I am meant ot be grooming tomorrow, hence my interest!  I will tell them that ideally a Westie should be groomed at 12 months and hand stripped or, clipped using a much longer blade (which I have!).

having groomed a Bouvier des Flandres yesterday, its clear that owners still have no idea how to properly groom their dog!
Part of the groomers job is to train and educate the owner.;)

I wouldn't put clippers on a Westie under 12 months old and then only when they have been bred with an incorrect very woolly coat.  Thinning scissors give a much more natural effect.  Depending on the age, for a puppy I'd top and tail, tidy feet and hygiene areas and strip out any coat that was ready to be pulled.  And of course, cut nails and clean teeth.

Again I agree, but how many actually listen? I do talk to my customers and listen to what they say.  I even go out and buy them the correct tools to use which will help them and make my life easier in the long run! Thanks for the site I will go away and study very carefully.

> I will tell them that ideally a Westie should be groomed at 12 months<

Not sure if it is mistyping in your post but the pup should start being groomed at aroung 5 month. Before that brushed daily. At 5-6 months top coat should be stripped out or partly stripped at the very least.

I personally think it is important to get " each breed right"  it may mean practising for free :-)) that is what a lot of people do when they are learning to trim for the showring. TO be honest this should be the perfect opportunity to get your trimming right :-))

Get decent pictures of westies photocopied and use them as a guide.  You can be shown a couple of times but you have to keep the picture in your head and around you as a guide.

You see!  I have one experienced groomer saying 12 months and another 5 months? You can see why I get confused.

No, I think you're misunderstanding. They're saying that a Westie should never be clippered before 12 months, but you'd start handstripping at 5 months. The owner should already be doing ordinary brushing before this time.

Absolutely JG.  I see all pups as soon as they are fully protected by their vaccinations for a top and tail and tidy, teeth and nails.  I wouldn't consider clipping until I've got the best possibla adult coat through to assess.

Ditto JG and V

OK, OK, I get the message!
I am doing a Westie today and I am not going to clip it but hand strip! I will advise the customer what a Westie should look like (I have a book that shows the hand stripped look) and take it from there.
I appreciate that you are all very passionate about your grooming and achieving the correct  'breed standard'. I want to be a good groomer and I am thankful for your help.
I know alot of sheep shearers in the area and they appear to be doing well Val, but I don't want to be one of them, I want to be better than that, so will listen to all your words of advice.

I know alot of sheep shearers in the area and they appear to be doing well Val, but I don't want to be one of them,
As I said, there's room for everyone. :)
There's no reason why you can't run a plastic clip on blade over the body after removing the dead coat to give a tidier look the first time.  The problem occurs when a #5 is used without removing the dead coat!  Stripping out the dead stuff will longterm give a closer, tidier finish, making the top coat fit the body, be more dirt repellent and keep the protection from the elements.

OK the Westie was completely matted! So matted I am surprised the poor boy could wee! Not good and have got to go back to finish him off on Sunday. Poor boy, first groom and no way of saving his coat....I promise I did try.

I hope you gave the owners a tactful lesson on brushing out and combing through to finish?   I find this so depressing :(  If Owners can't be bothered to even keep the dog from matting why have a coated dog? why not just get a smooth haired breed? :(

If you want any help with Spanish Water Dogs or Pom's I could at some point do them and do photo's and e-mail you.

Most groomers decide that a Spanish Water Dog should either be a Poodle or a Bedlington Terrier!!!!  Ooooh and the annoyance when they realise that they are not.  Was asked to go to a competition once with my Spanish to show the groomers how they should be groomed, boy they were not a happy group of people at the end actually a felt really out of my depth with some of the comments and looks that I had.  They wanted to see a fluffy Poodle look and my breed is not like that.  They should NEVER be brushed or combed, fingers are used when they have coat although they are ONLY ALLOWED A YEARS GROWTH, if you see a Spanish with lots and lots of coat that is incorrect.  When they are clipped, they are clipped right off, head, ears, feet, legs, tail everything :d

Hi

Yes please!  Any advice on any breed would be gratefully received!  I am doing a Pom in 2 weeks time.
Most groomers are taught the general look of a dog and from what I can gather its not particularly breed specific enough, hence why breeders groom their own dogs!  I want to be better than that, if I can, so advice is ALWAYS gratefully received and very much appreciated!
You can PM if this helps or I can give you my email address.  I am very excited!!

They were in their 80's!  They knew he was bad and were very sorry!  They have had Westie's before but at least I can start to get him back to what he should look like.  And no Val, not like a jelly mold I promise!!

Perro,

I'm totally amazed that groomers think a Spanish water dog should look like a Bedlington terrier   most groomers I've met - including the one who trained me (general grooming, business etc) haven't a clue how to trim a Bedlington.  She asked me to take one in and show her how it was done properly, I did that and she then showed me how I'd done it wrong and reclipped the dog to "look like a show bedlington"  :rolleyes:  by the time she had finished the dog looked appalling, luckily it wasn't a show dog and the owners roared with laughter when I took their dog back, but it was very embarassing for me :(

Hi,

I work at a grooming parlour/school in the kent area, and we train our students to clip westies to not only customers preference, but also taking into consideration the dogs coat type and condition.

If a dog has a coat that we feel would not look nice clipped, then we teach to use thinning scissors.
If the dog is to be clipped, then the majority of our westies are clipped using blades from a 3 3/4 blade, #4f or #5f.
or, for puppies, we normally just top and tail (as previously mentiond) and tidy the face.

We do see a few dogs with coats right for stripping, but most westies that come to us are pet dogs with coats ranging from thin & silky to thick coats that will not strip.

I think what most people see is the westies that have been clipped using a short blade on a coat that has still got dead coat left in it, or when the clippers have not been used correctly and the body is covered in tram lines!

The head of a Westie is what our students always want to practise again and again!!!
Cheryl