Hi
I groom & clip my TT into a pet trim, his fringe is currently over his eyes. I wanted to know if it should be left to grow or whether I should clip it so I can see his eyes. I do not show him or anything I just wanted to know what is best for him, my vet said his fringe should be clipped so he can see & so other dogs are not threatened by him(not able to see his eyes).
I would love other TT owners advice/opinions.

You could try putting back in the little coloured bands they use for Poodles :D  the best of both worlds ;)  you can usually buy them cheaply at good grooming salons :D

I agree dill what a shame to cut his fringe my beardie girls have long fringes ....when not showing we tie them back with tiny childrens hair ties or some people use clips crossed over.
What a strange comment from your vet they are meant to have the long fringe as are beardies when they are out the wind keeps it out of thier faces  "I can see you ....but you cant see me "

~Roni

When a TT's fringe grows to the correct length the oil in the coat should encourage it to hang together allowing the dog to see.  I believe that it developed to shield the dog from the weather and the glare of the sun on snow much like Beardies.  When it gets to a reasonable length it can be tied back though. 

The vet is right about other dog breeds not being able to see the eyes.  It does freak some dogs out if they cant see another dogs eyes as they don't know if they are being eyeballed and go in to attack just in case.  It does happen I have seen it many times with heavily fringed dogs.  They don't missread the signals from dogs of the same breed though isnt nature wonderful.

I've never experienced this myself and I used to own a TT and an Afghan cross, the TT's hair looked terrible if it was cut over the eyes :(  and tended to flop into the eyes unless cut really short, but when it was long we never had a problem with him and the coat seemed to separate enough for him to see and be seen ;)  When the Affi cross was young he had a full floppy coat over his eyes and I used to cut it but it always seemed to get into his eyes :(  after letting it grow it just seemed to lie back so much better and didn't flop into his eyes at all :)  I never saw a dog get iffy with either of them because of the eyes, the only ones that got nasty with them were nasty with all dogs they met regardless of sex/breed.  But then both my hairy hounds were very well socialised as puppies (both had lived on the streets as pups at a time when dogs were everywhere and allowed to roam all day :rolleyes:  )  I do think perhaps that dogs in general today aren't as well socialised (we only meet staffie types mastiffs and miniatures as a rule, mostly they are pulled away from contact with other dogs ;( )  and so don't get to understand the finer nuances of doggy communication ;)

Hi Dill I know where you are coming from.  When the hair is cut away from the eyes it tend to grow back into the eyes and it is a never ending effort to keep them comfortable.

I know a lot of people will not agree with me regarding the lack of signal from a dog whoes eyes cannot be seen but it is accepted by quite a few behaviourists I have spoken with.  Certainly with Beardies the very profuse coat is also a mask to signals which other dogs might otherwise pick up on, the obscured outline is hard for them to read. 

TT's do see very well through their fringes once they are grown and if you overbath your pet, removing the oils, you can always grease up the fringe a little with vitapointe leave in conditoner - it works a treat.

My beardies never had problems with their coat over their eyes, but then they did have correct coats & not the excess(not called for in the breed standard BTW)bred for today by 99% of show breeders

My friend who has TTs doesn't have to ie hers back either, but again she has been breeding them for 30 + years. She's never had a problem with other dogs & hers either

Dogs don't go much by eye expression unless it is the hard aggressive stare. The lack of eye contact might be accepted by bahaviourists dogs read the full body language not just the eyes

I have to admit that I have never had a problem with the fringe and eye contact with other dogs.
Inside I tend to tie it back and outside it seems to stay back itself.

Yep know what you mean Moonmaiden.  I have a Beardie in full show coat, masses of it much more than is required by the breed standard, he can see where he is going okay but we do tie it back when he has just been bathed or it can be a blanket over his eyes.  He is the one that has problems with other dogs attacking not reading him right due to obsucured outline etc etc - had advice on this from lots of other owners and behaviourisits.  My OH has been in the breed for more that 25 years and has his own opinions on this.  My other Beardie has what I would call a good working coat, less dense, double coat, long but able to see light under it.  She sees better than him and I harldy ever tie her hair back.

We prefer the dog to be closer to the original standard but we know the showier dogs are going to win every time.  Thank goodness for OB and Agility.  I call my boy the Bimbo he wins a lot but doesn't have to use his brain.  My girl is never going to make it big in the show ring but she does have a brain and isnt afraid to use it - she's a modern woman