On another forum some people say if a pup is to go to a working home that the pup should go at 6 weeks so it has better bonding time....

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this and if at 6 weeks why? Me personally I believe 8 weeks is good since a pup learns so much from their mom and siblings during this crucial time and still plenty of time to bond with the knew owners at 8 weeks.

Personally I don't let mine leave until they are 8 weeks old, that way I know that they are fully weaned and have had their first jab.

My BC came to me at 13 weeks & he had no problem bonding with me in fact he is my shadow

Toy dogs, at any rate Cavaliers, generally don't leave their mums till 10 weeks. My new puppy trips me up all the time in the park she is so closely bonded with me! :-D

I had this debate too, should I get a puppy at 8-9 weeks or a 13 week old pup. In the end I opted for a 9 week pup because at the time he would be 9 weeks it would give me 7 weeks in the summer holidays to settle him in and train him. I also had the option of an 8 week old puppy but would only have had 4 weeks before going back to work. A trainer said to me "the window of opportunity for socialisation ends at 14/16 weeks so bear this in mind" .  When I went to the kennel there were only 2 dogs left one was 16 weeks old having been kept back by the vet and then given the all clear and a 9 week old. My friend who came with me took the dogs one at a time and told me to call it to me. The 16 week old bolted for the door, the 9 week old came straight to me. That was the one I chose and have never regretted it. The 16 week was so cute and I felt sorry for it but I knew as I worked that it wouldnt be the right one for me. It needed someone at home all the time as it would need a lot of training having been unsocalised or toilet trained in the kennel all this time. 9 weeks was about right, old enough to toilet train but young enough to be of optimum training potential.

With my Pomeranians 12 weeks with the Spanish though 7 weeks, 8 weeks is OK but at 9 weeks this can cause problem.  They are a working breed and need to go to their new homes ideally at 7 weeks, if they were left until 13 weeks you may as well forget it as there would be big problems.  This breed as many other working breeds become very attached to one person and if left too long with their breeder will only want to do something for that person only, ignoring the outside world and in the long run not enjoying the world for what it can be.

But as you can tell all breeds are different, the earliest that I would let a Pom. go is at 10 weeks.

We took a mini wire in at 12 weeks and he took to us like a duck to water, no problems from day one. We like to run litters on and won't part from them until 8 weeks, preferable 12 weeks or more.
We have also taken in two bitches when they were 6 and 9 months, now that is not recommended, neither are great in their new enviroment as you can read in other threads!!!

My pups go at 7 weeks. Many breeders say it is better than 8 so I have just followed advice, and they have certainly been ready then -but mine are big dogs of course.

I get my dogs at 51 days ie 7 weeks and 2 days, this has been shown to be the optimum time for dogs to leave their mums.

However, it really does not matter, people have successful working dogs at 6 weeks, 10 weeks, 16 weeks 12 months etc.

I got mine at 14 weeks and I have to say no problems what so ever. After 2 days he wouldn't go anywhere without me and now after 2 months it's like he never knew anything else but our family. The advantage of getting a slightly older puppy is that the breeder already trained him to do his business outside on the grass :) !

Is it not the point that the pups should be receiving the correct socialisation with whoever theya re with at whatever age then they wil not be a problem when transfering to a new home as the work wil just be ongoing.

Most of this best age thing is down to the fact that sadly many pups do not come from an environment conducive to a well adjusted dog.

Surely the isue is about choosing /ensuring the pups come from a breeder that does their job properly?

Hi there,

It all very much depends on the breeder. There is a very sensitive period in dogs which is between 8 and 12 weeks. At this time, the pups are extremely impressionable, so any bad experiences will have an effect (and leaving their mom and littermates is a pretty scary thing to do).

This is why people advise to get the pup in at 7 weeks, so that they are not too traumatised by the move. Before 8 weeks of age, pups seem to take things in their stride (i.e. the 'fear' stage has not yet kicked in). However, what is is extremely important to bear in mind is that dogs' key socialisation stage (better referred as 'social referencing') is between 5 and approximately 14/16 weeks. This is the crucial time to really socialise the pup and expose it to everything in life. So, if your breeder is a fantastic breeder that takes the pups out every day, puts them in the car, takes them everywhere with them, then it is a good idea to pick them up at 12 weeks. However, bear in mind that these sort of breeders are few and far between, also bear in mind that they have quite a few puppies and may lead busy lives, so they may not have the time to socialise your puppy as well as you would, since you only have one pup to contend with and you will be keen to show him around and socialise him. In which case, it is a good idea to get a pup between 7 and 8 weeks of age.

It all very much depends on who will be the person who will do the best job at socilialising them between 5 and 16 weeks.

I find dogs will bond to whomever provides them with all their needs (e.g. love and security) regardless of age. I see this over and over again.

Good luck with the pup!

Cheers,
Patty

P.S. What you will probably find is that you fall in love with a litter/pup and you will just take him/her at whatever age :-)

Thank you all for your replies....

If someone was getting a working puppy 8 weeks is just fine then, or should the pup be 6 weeks.... Just assuming that the breeder is very good in every respect ect ect...

I let mine go at 8 weeks, give or take a day or two. That way I feel that they learn a bit more from their mum before going out into the big wide world. It also gives me time to decide which puppies I will show to potential owners. The pups personalities are more noticable, making it easier to shove, oops, I mean persuade, the owners in the right direction ;)

I got all my lot at 7 weeks and think that it was a great age to get them [all munsters]. They fitted in well to the routine here and had no settling in problems.
Friends of ours have belgians and if you don't get them a the earliest oppurtunity then you are in for trouble. They bond so much with there people that you have to get in quick.

Hi Munstervs4ever,

I can't comment on your breed as I have very limited experience of them however as to Belgian Shepherds I am very well acquainted with them first hand over many years.  Re your comment :

>Friends of ours have belgians and if you don't get them a the earliest oppurtunity then you are in for trouble. They bond so much with there people that you have to get in quick.

While this may be your friends' unfortunate experience, thankfully it is not remotely the norm and so is not only potentially misleading but an unfair generalisation.  Having owned several over the years and bred my own, I sincerely hope I can put this myth to bed :) 

I've bought in pups from 9 weeks, 13 weeks, 10 weeks and the last bought in addition came at just under 6 months - not one single bit of difference in how quickly and easily they adapted and bonded to our family, existing dogs and our day to day routine.  My own litter left the nest mostly at 8-8.5 weeks but a further two remained until 11 and 13 weeks (due to one being exported).  None of my own breeding had any problems adapting to their new families.

Basically, although a sensitive breed and not ideally suited to everyone, they are every bit as capable of adapting to new circumstances and striking a quick rapport with their new owners at any age on the proviso that they have been bred from good stock, well reared and correctly socialised by their breeders.

Kind regards, Teri :)   

I was basing my comments on two different people that have between them 7 belgians from differnet lines and different breeders and all the breeders seem to agree that you are better to get  a belgian early. The one they got at 11 weeks was  a nightmare of a dog. He was fine when they went to see him [ i was there] but as soon as they started to get him out and about he was scared of everything. If the people that took him hadn't been very high up in dog training I think he would have ended up in rescue as he was a nightmare and could not be trusted.

This is the same with my breed too.  They need to go at 7 weeks, 8 week most definitely 9 weeks at a push, any later than that and forget it!  7 weeks is the best age in Spanish Water Dogs, but as you and i have said all breeds are different.

Hi again munsters4ever

It would appear I've met more Munsterlanders than you have BSDs yet I would not dream of making such a sweeping assessment of a breed so far removed from my personal experience!  As I said, it is unfortunate for your friends' situation to be so negative but IMO worse still that it has gone on to reflect the breed's image and management as a whole in such an undesirable and undeserving light with yourself (and presumably others locally).

Perhaps had they researched the breed, breeders and lines much more extensively and found a breeder who consistently produced dogs of correct temperament, they would have been happy to return to the same source for subsequent dogs.

>He was fine when they went to see him [ i was there] but as soon as they started to get him out and about he was scared of everything

That says it all ;)

With all due respect, you know 2 people with 7 dogs, I know literally countless dogs, owners and breeders personally throughout the country and several overseas.  I stand by the fact that your comments are a generalisation on a very limited understanding and experience of the breed. :(  Whilst I accept that this breed is not for everyone, your friends' experiences are certainly not what should be expected if buying a puppy which is from lines known for good character and where litters have been correctly socialised. 

As with most medium sized breeds, 8 weeks is very much the popular age for pups moving on to their new homes but as I have taken the trouble to detail in my earlier post, being a few weeks - or even months - later need not be ANY problem whatsoever.  Any knowledgeable and responsible breeder having pups for an extra period of time would ensure that socialisation with all things worldly was ongoing until such times as the ideal home became available ergo your friends' 11 week puppy should have "been there, done that, seen it, heard it, met it and peed the pavement" just as habitually as he would have done had he been picked up by them at 8 weeks!

Regards, Teri :)

Am not going to name names but this dog came from what you would call a good breeder who has bred a few champions ect. I know a load of belgians through showing and agility but these two families I know the best. I agree that belgians arent for everyone, they are very different in attitude to most other breeds. This dog that they got was well socialised by the breeder  and had had all the usual things that pups get includung that CD of sounds played to the litter from 2 weeks but that didn't stop him from thinking everything in the world was against him. He has even had a nip at my daughter for just walking past him [she is well used to dogs and told him to get lost]. I understand that you know a load more about belgians than me and thats fine but I can only speak about my circumstances of the dogs that i know. We have many belgians that come to our ringcraft form all over the country and they all seem to hate other dogs. The one thing about my munster pup is she doesn't fret over anything and will play with anyone. I love the look of the belgian and they are very good working dogs but I have seen too many with the same problem from all different breeders.

I had no intention of hi-jacking this thread into a pro BSD one and FWIW I could, if so inclined, easily post wholly inappropriate, ill-thought out comments and sweeping generalisations about your breed - not my style however as I stick to what I know in depth.

>but this dog came from what you would call a good breeder who has bred a few champions ect

I very much doubt it!  There are two who immediately spring to mind, renowned for temperament issues (their dogs ain't too sociable either :D ) and yet both these breeders ironically tell anyone interested in a puppy to stay clear of everyone else :rolleyes:   Well, all I can say is research into a breed pays off - and you get out of it what you put in.  But then that applies to any breed.

As I said above, "your friends' experiences are certainly not what should be expected if buying a puppy which is from lines known for good character and where litters have been correctly socialised" .  Clearly if  this criteria is not met fully there's likely to be a problem - but again, that is not breed specific :rolleyes: 

regards, Teri

Couldn't agree more Teri.

The last of my pups went to his new home in Ireland last weekend at 11 weeks.

He was picked up Friday morning, driven to Scotland where he spent the night in the Car cage with a canine in the other half of the divided car crate.

He had been drooly once they hit the twisty roads, and as a result was sick on the way to the show next monring.

His new owners soon had him settled and going for walks meeting other people and canines, in between time he was happy to settle in his crate.

They had a very rough crossing back to Ireland with the humans using poo bags for sick bags, but the pup and other dogs were happily asleep in the van.

He arrived in his new home on sunday morning bright eyed and bushy tailed all ready to train his new people to hand feed him smackos and Markies in preference to the food he had eaten most of his life :D

Before leaving here he had his full vaccinations , had been to dog club twice and been carried around to see traffic and been lead trained.  Met losts of people and lived with five adult canines. 

This is what any breeder should be doing with puppies as they grow, appropriate training and socialisation for their age.  Of course it is a lot easier for the breeder not to have pups for so long, but if they do then it is their responsibility to do this, otherwise they are not a good breeder and people should refuse to buy pups at any age from someone when breeding who isn't prepared to rear pups properly.

>Before leaving here he had his full vaccinations , had been to dog club twice and been carried around to see traffic and been lead trained.  Met losts of people and lived with five adult canines.  This is what any breeder should be doing with puppies as they grow, appropriate training and socialisation for their age

Exactly Barbara - just how it should be!   Regards, Teri :)

For this reason I would never advocate not releasing any of the pups until late, but if some pups are still with the breeder longer does not mean they will miss out in any way if the breeder does their job properly.

I have for various reasons (exporting, new owners holidays, or just a pup not spoken for) had at least one pup for as long as 16 weeks, and never a problem with changing homes.  In fact I have been able to sort out a problem for the new owners re housetraining technique when a pup came back for two weeks for their holiday.

As mine is a numerically small breed the balance of potential owners and pups is quite finely balanced, and as at the moment there will sometimes be a surplus of pups when there is a preponderence of one sex born. 

For example we have had 3 litters born recently where out of 17 pups there were only 3 bitches born, and two of the breeders are keeping those.  This means that those waiting on bitches will have to wait longer and there are sure to be boy pups with their breeders past 8 weeks until new potential owners take up the slack, but their pups will not be disadvantaged by this, and in fact because of the breeders experience pups may well be better socialised and along with housetraining. 

Not ideal from the breeders point of view as it is hard work, especially if there is more than one, the sleep deprivation being the hardest :D

Hi Barbara

>the sleep deprivation being the hardest

So that's why you're up late then :D   Teri

Yep had to take pup (11 weeks Friday) out for a wee, and haven't got back to sleep.  He goes on Friday :(  Going with my friend Treena up to Scotland (Scotish club ch sh on Saturday) to meet up with his new owners who will take him back with them to Ireland.

We let our Lab pups go between 8-10 weeks. By this stage they are bold confident puppies that give their owners [and us!] a lot of pleasure. We start to housetrain them ourselves so it is easier for the new owner to take it up.  We also innoculate and insure the puppies. Fom six weeks we put vetbed down and when "mum" is away from the pups we encourage her to lie on it - putting her scent on it so when the puppies do go to new homes we give the new owners a puppy sized piece to take home with them for the pups to lie on in their new bed with the dams scent close to them.

Years ago we bought in a 5 month old puppy and she just slotted happily into our lives. At the time she was our only dog. We had absolutely no problems with her bonding.  She was a happy well adjusted pup. 

Neeva

It depends on so many things.

Puppys have fear periods , periods where learning is very quick etc etc. They need to learn things from their dam and litter mates.... but they also need to learn things about life around people in the home.

I got Dill at just turned 6 weeks. But he was born and bred outside. Yes he had company of his mum and litter mates, which taught him a lot, but past 6 weeks old he wasnt learning anything about the environment he would have to live in with me as his entire world was a big kennel and run.

So for Dill, 6 weeks was the best time.

For a pup bred in a home, with not just mum but other adult dogs around, a variety of people and noises  and a breeder who is actively socialising puppies with these sounds and experiences, then 8 weeks is fine.

I wish id got Pteppic at 6 weeks though, (i got him at 12), he had very little access to the house, spent all his days in the yard with his mum. He had slightly more environmental stimulus than Dill butn ot much, and because of his breeding he IS a hard work puppy. That might have been made a whole lot easier had i been able to start socialiseing him at six weeks old!

I dont think, however that you can say 'all puppies must be over 7 weeks' or something (although ideally over 6), there are too many variables to make putting a flat rule on it for ALL puppies sensible.

Em