Hi
I am looking into buying an italian spinone puppy. I have found lots of information for what to look for in a puppy and what questions to ask breeders and I am taking my time and following all these rules to the letter. What i can't find anywhere is the average purchase price. I know they are expensive but do people have an idea of roughly the kind of price I should be paying for a well bred spinone puppy? That way if I find a breeder offering me a puppy that is well under or over this i will have reason to be suspicious.
Any experts on this breed out there?

Hi
i found this page which might be of help. :)

or the breed club
ITALIAN SPINONE CLUB OF GB. Sec. Ms Mayne. Tel No: 08708 743 082

thanks. I had seen that info. It says £500-700 but have noticed that their expected puppy prices for other breeds seem to be way out (much less than the going rate) have looked at the website for spinone club of GB but no info on their actual website. Think I may have to phone up a breeder but am worried about appearing to care too much about how much they cost and that will give a breeder the wrong impression and make it look like all i'm worried about is how much they cost, which isn't true. I'm getting interrogated by breeders as it is (which is a good sign I know) I just wish they were all open about it from word go rather than it being considered unimportant. If I'm buying a puppy that cost £1000 or more then it is a lot of money and it is important. Maybe I just need to be braver and ask the question. Sorry, this finding a puppy business feels a little like I'm being investigated by social services. All a good thing I know but I feel like if I say one wrong thing that could be interpreted in the wrong way then I'm going to be told I'm a bad parent. Which I'm not! I'm great with dogs and have had puppies before...always cross breeds that were needing a good home and then I was made to feel like I was doing a good thing in wanting to provide a loving home. Sometimes at the moment I feel like just saying I want to buy a puppy just gets an immediate suspicious response. I know this is to weed out the unsuitable but it's not very nice for us well intentioned.

If you ask the money question after you have asked all your other questions, then I don't think that any breeder will think you anything other that sensible!! :)
Breeders have a problem when "How much are your puppies?" is the first question that is asked!  It sounds, maybe wrongly, that it is the only thing that matters and that the caller is looking for a cheap, rather than well bred, puppy.

I think that is the case for some people but for someone who has a budget it is a very important factor. If someone has a budget of say £500 turns up to look at a litter of puppies falls in love with one, the breeder is happy that person can take a pup only to find out they are £100 short of the price it can be very embarrasing for both parties. That doesn't mean they dont have the dogs welfare at heart just they dont have enough money.

>I think that is the case for some people but for someone who has a budget it is a very important factor. If >someone has a budget of say £500 turns up to look at a litter of puppies falls in love with one, the breeder is >happy that person can take a pup only to find out they are £100 short of the price it can be very embarrasing for >both parties. That doesn't mean they dont have the dogs welfare at heart just they dont have enough money.

The way I do it (as somebody ON a tight budget) I would a) always find out the price well in advance (before the pups are born if possible, but NOT as the first question or even fifth but maybe tenth question), certainly not go to view before knowing it and b) I will not expect to buy a pup soon, but go on a waiting list so that I have a year or so to save up. :)

>The way I do it (as somebody ON a tight budget) I would a) always find out the price well in advance (before the pups are born if possible, but NOT as the first question or even fifth but maybe tenth question), certainly not go to view before knowing it and b) I will not expect to buy a pup soon, but go on a waiting list so that I have a year or so to save up. >

Yes but unfortunatly some people are not as  patient as you. ;):)

Then they wouldn't get one of my puppies! ;) :D

Absolutely!! :D

I think that msconfused is a little more understanding than that though.;)  They are asking all the right questions and doing all their research AND listening to all the replies before going to look at puppies.

Very true - and definitely to be applauded. :)

phone the club secretary ( i posted the number above) im sure that they will be only to happy to help with info etc and help you to find a reputable breeder. if you go through the breed club atleast they will know that you are serious about the breed.

>>have noticed that their expected puppy prices for other breeds seem to be way out

Some could just be cashing in on current popularity for some breeds. I know my breed price was in the same ball park as quoted on that website. :)

Hang in there and try not to worry or take things too personally, at the end of the day the breeder wants to make sure that you are the right person for their baby,
Find out all you can about the breed as this will help to show that you have done your research and know what your letting yourself in for. the good and the bad :)

good luck :)

Thanks. I'll phone her up and have a chat. All really good advice. I know they are just trying to find the best homes. I have spoken to lots of dog breeders over the last few months and some of them have been really lovely and asked all the right questions too but then some of them ask the same questions but you get the impression that they just don't like people very much. I have two small children and despite them having never met them or knowing anything about them the kind of predjudice against children I've heard has been quite horrible...they wouldn't like it if I talked about their dogs like that.

I have two small children and despite them having never met them or knowing anything about them the kind of predjudice against children I've heard has been quite horrible
I can understand your upset, but you have to think that breeders have seen untrained children not treating dogs/puppies with kindly and don't want that for their babies that they have nurtured!! ;)  Only last Sunday I saw a little lad of about 4 years old dragging a 10-12 week old labrador puppy along gravel at a Car Boot Sale and his parents were completely oblivious to what was happening!
I generally would not home puppies with children under 5 years old BUT I also listen to what the potential owner says.  I have successfully broken my own rule 4 times when the parent has said "I have young children but they are used to dogs and treat them with respect.  Please can I bring them along and show you?"
Buying and homing puppies has to be a two way thing and both parties need to be happy.  You'll find a breeder who suits you and they'll be there to support you throughout your dog's life! :)

The spinone is a gentle giant, but he is also a very substantial dog and considerably clumsy at times :rolleyes: Breeders have to be sure that you are aware of this factor and that your children and yourself will cope. Yes, they are a lovely breed and yes they are fantastic with children (over all) but they can do a lot of unintentional 'damage' at times and breeders do need to take this into account. The 'spinone jab' may be playful but it can really hurt depending on where they catch you with their paw :D

yes I realise this and my children have been very well trained around dogs and are very aware of treating them with respect. i think my problem with this thinking is that in my experience kids that don't treat animals well are kids that haven't been brought up with them. It's like socialising a puppy! You wouldn't blame a dog who is aggressive towards other dogs would you? You'd blame the owner for not bringing the animal up well enough...a crude analogy I know...but I suppose sometimes I feel like kids can get a bit demonised (in the same way as some breeds of dog do) and it's not their fault if they don't understand that animals are sensitive feeling creatures...it's because they haven't been brought up with them and/or their parents haven't taught them properly. let's not lump them all in to one catergory. I think saying all kids under five are a potential danger to a puppy is as bad as saying all dogs are a potential danger to children. It just isn't true. It's about how they are brought up

I think the answer to the whole young kids and puppies question is for more kids to grow up with dogs, not less.

Thanks admin for notes on Spinone. I take this on board. Having done months of research and meeting dogs now I think the spinone is the one for us. We've all fallen for them!

> i think my problem with this thinking is that in my experience kids that don't treat animals well are kids that >haven't been brought up with them.

Yes, generally, but there are exceptions. :) I'd had 2 girls, perfect with animals, used to going to shows etc etc. Then I had a boy -and WOW was he horrible when he was little, despite being taught the same things! He's okay now when he's 5, almost 6, but when he was 2 ½, he put an entire litter of kittens down the toilet, then came and told me the kittens had jumped in themselves and been naughty!! (They were fine, thankfully, although we still don't know if the mother picked up the kittens from the toilet or if my son did it, as by the time I got there all four were on the floor but soaking wet.) So despite always having been around animals, at that age he wasn't really any better than a child that hadn't. Why I don't know!

I definitely think the best way is to get the entire family to come and meet the dogs at the beeder's, and not just the pups but the adults, as that way everyone can be assured of what's what -I find you can tell a lot from how kids behave when they visit somebody with animals. :)

Children under 5 are at home all day.  They move very quickly and speak with high pitched voices.  It's just the way it is! :)  Many dogs and most puppies would not be immediately comfortable in that position.  Some parents are aware of this and some are not aware of anything that their children do!!!:(
I don't move anything in my home if potential families visit.  Some children try to touch ornaments etc.  Most parents say "Don't touch the lady's things!" etc.  That's fine, the children are just being children and the parents are aware of what the children are doing.  Other parents are so interested in the dogs etc that they are completely oblivious to what their children are doing.  That's exactly what happens in everyday life and I'm not prepared to put one of my pups into that situation.  Those are the families that go home disappointed and never even get onto the waiting list!

Children under 3 may be at home all day but not under five. I have a 3 and a four year old...one is at nursery and the other at school.
I understand these concerns but I feel you're blowing it out of all proportion. of course it's up to you who you sell your dogs too...personally i wouldn't want to buy a puppy from a breeder who wasn'y child friendly or had brought their puppies up to be so.

And let's not demonise little boys either...they are all different...just because one flushes animals down the toilet does not mean they all do. my kids have been brought up with cats, birds, rabbits and hamsters and have never shown any inclination to hurt them. It's parenting skills it is not innate!

I can hear the Spinone jungle drums banging from here! :D

Please don't get me wrong msconfused, I wasn't at all saying you SHOULDN'T have a pup because you have young children. Goodness, I am the person who has always had a house full of dogs AND kids. :) Nor did I mean that all little boys are horrid -just that mine was! :) Train dogs I can do, children -never! Have never quite understood  how they work, LOL. The do respond to sit and stay and come (for a treat!) but that's about it! :D I just meant that there are two sides to every story (or even 3), and the main thing here surely is for eveyrone to meet up and see, and as long as the kids appear to be well trained enough <grin> which I am sure yours are, then a breeder should be happy to sell you a pup.(Don't forget another thing though, some people may have worries about how much time you will have to devote to a pup if you have *very* young children. It's hard to combine nappy changing with house training, and pushchair pushing and lead training. Been there, done it. Don't know how young yours are though.)  Equally I understand why some won't sell to SOME families -not sure if I would have sold msyelf a pup had I met my son at that age, LOL.

Okay, I take this on board and you sound very reasonable. of course my whole family will meet the breeder and his/her dogs and hopefully we'll all get along fine and be very happy with each other.

I think nappy changing/pushchairs and puppies would be very hard but we are out of that phase now.

Taking the whole family to meet some adults (ideally when there's no puppies to meet as well! ;)) is an excellent idea. I had a lovely-sounding family phone me for one of my puppies, and when they came to see the litter the oldest boy was very scared of the adults, and even slapped the mum (who loved children) when she went to say hello. They didn't get a puppy.

It's really sad that happened for your dog and for the family and of course i understand why you w0ouldn't want them to have a puppy.
I have had a struggle with my kids to get them used to dogs (especially big ones) and not to be scared of them...that is the ones we don't know...I've always found as soon as they get to know a dog they are fine. I do find it a bit irresponsible of some dog owners who let their big boisterous dogs run up to young children in the park. For an adult this can be disconcerting but for a child it can mean the start of a dog phobia. You can't really blame them for being scared around big dogs they don't know, especially if they don't have a dog in the family home. Most dog owners are really understanding about this but some aren't. Infact i read a post on this forum earlier saying that kids came in two varieties...the ones who are aggressive towards dogs and the "screeching" kind who run away in terror whenever a dog comes near them. Not really helpful is it?
To be honest, although my kids love animals, i'm not looking forward to taking them to a breeders house with loads of big dogs they don't know running around, not because they'll slap them (I'm sure they wouldn't) but because I think it will scare them. They haven't had a dog yet so don't know the score. It's a bit unreasonable to expect a small child who isn't used to dogs not to be scared of them. It's a catch 22 situation. what do you do? Immediately write them off as unsuitable because they haven't had the opportunity of living with a dog yet? or give them a chance? I think I understand the difficulty for breeders here. They want to be certain their baby is going to a good home. I don't think I'm being judgemental. I'd just like a few more breeders to be less judgemental about kids. Sound fair?

The trouble is, if the child doesn't improve with the dog (and small children in general love the idea of a puppy, but don't like the reality (the mouthing, the toys being chewed etc) at all!) then, naturally nobody's going to rehome their child!, it's always the dog that gets uprooted and moved on. This is what breeders want to avoid. The wellbeing of their puppies is their priority, not somebody else's children.

It's vital to see how children behave with the fullsize dog - because in just a few short months that cute little puppy will be just the same size!

Your priority is your family and what you want for them, and of course, this is right.
As a breeder my priority is the best home that I can find for each and everyone of my puppies that I have spent months, sometimes years planning, and the previous 8 weeks on my hands and knees whelping, rearing, training, socialising etc.  Why should I "give them a chance?" when I have previously tried and tested homes, maybe be people who have had pups from me 10 years before, offered?  I will, however, give new families a chance if the parents show that they are aware of possible problems and have thought through ways of dealing with them.
If you read through old postings on the boards, you'll see many instances where parents are worried because children don't like the puppy mouthing, sharp teeth etc, all a normal part of a puppy growing.  Some children become so frightened of the growing puppy that it has to be returned to the breeder or rehomed! :(
Each case is, of course different and should be treated as such, but if you understand why a breeder is concerned, then it's up to you to prove that your family is ready and can grow up with a puppy and not expect the breeder to "give them a chance?".
One of my last litter went to a family with 3 slightly older children who all professed to 'love dogs' but weren't used to a dog in the family.  One of them was particularly worried by my adult but calm, girls.  I voiced my concern but they travelled over 50 miles each way, both before the pups were born to meet the big girls and every other week once the pups were born, 6 times in all, and each time the nervous child became more confident as he realised that the adults would not hurt him.  I saw that the parents were prepared to make an enormous effort to make it work and 5 months later, they are a very happily family. :)

I don't 'do' kids personally, but I remember my friend bringing her 4 yr old boy round one day. One of the Sibes rushed over to greet him and he started screaming (the dog got bored and went away lol). I said to her whats he frightened of, the dog won't hurt him, and she said how would you like it if a dog as tall as you came charging over. I have to admit the size difference never occured to me before, think I would be scared of a dog as tall as me! When you look at it from their level it makes all the difference.

You make it sound like the prospective owner never takes a risk with a breeder. Afterall, even with all the health screening and the best assurances of a well adjusted puppy, you never actually know how a dog's temperament will turn out. There are bad breeders out there breeding puppies in terrible conditions and not caring who has them as long as they make a profit. I have done lots of research into different breeds and how to tell a good breeder when i needn't have done. I could have just bought a puppy I thought was pretty,at a fraction of the cost of a well bred one out of the local paper months ago, no questions asked. I just wish that sometimes good breeders would see this. If we're making the effort to get it right why not give us a chance. I'm not saying sell a puppy to a home you're not sure about. I'm just saying don't write people off immediately with arbitrary rules like, no kids under 5. As a buyer you take a risk. Even after doing all the research and checks we can as prospective buyers in the end we have to trust the breeder. All I'm saying is that this is a two way thing. I just find this attitude that the prospective owner is always the problem, the unknown quantity that shouldn't be trusted very unhelpful. It's an equal thing. At the end of the day you need us (good homes) as much as we need you (good breeders). You're not actually giving dogs away are you? You are selling them. You do actually need us to buy them. I'm always very polite and open about myself and my kids and my lifestyle. I'm always lovely about people's dogs. I want to find out as much as I can about them of course but I try and enter into communication with them positively. Not immediately suspecting them of being evil dog abusers or inadequate parents. let's have some respect going both ways please.

Can I just say msconfused that you sound like a lovely person and you will be a great owner. Hope you find your lovely Spinone pup soon, they are lovely dogs.

Thanks Husky! That's a lovely thing to say!

I'm sure you'll agree everyone can only go by what their own experiences have taught them.

You sound very sensible, and I'm sure you'll be able to demonstrate that to your chosen breeder, with the advantage of knowing what the breeder is looking for from you too! But remember - the breeder can afford to pick and choose too. Think of it as a job interview - you have to convince the employer (breeder) that you're the ideal person for the job (puppy).
:)

I'm only trying to explain why breeders are wary about homes with young children so that you understand. :(  But fine.  You do it your way. 

I have no reason to take any chances about where I home my puppies.  If I have any doubts as to the long term happiness of my puppy, it doesn't go - end of story - not open for negotiation!

I can understand why you are having a problem communicating with breeders.

Can I also ask Msconfused, reading your other posts you said you wanted a small to medium dog and that you thought Labs and retrievers were too big, so what made you decide on a Spinone? Have you actually met any? They are VERY big and VERY heavy, I used to groom a couple so I know how heavy they are! Just curious as to why the change of plan. Have you thought about PBGV's or GBGV"S? They look quite similar but are smaller. Good luck with your search.

Crumbs, yes, good point! Spinoni (I think that's the correct plural) are much bigger than labs and retrievers! Much hairier, and much wetter (oh, those beards!) too!

Hello Msconfused,

I have two male Spinoni ( :D well done JG!) and it's true that they are very big, powerful dogs.  Certainly my boys are at the top of the breed standard for size, but even more average sized ones are powerful dogs.   As Admin says, they are gentle dogs but they can be a bit clumsy and they will whack you with their paws in a loving gesture - and it hurts!  They also like to lean on people, a nuisance for an adult but a Spin lean on a little one could send them flying!

That being said, the breed is very good with children and are very sensitive towards them.  If you feel confident that your children would respect the dog and you can supervise at all times then having one is not out of the question, in my opinion.   I know people who have them with young children with no issues at all :)  However, they do need a lot of exercise once mature and they can be willful ;) And yes, they drool and slobber and have yucky wet beards :D

Whereabouts in the country do you live?

Lesley

PS As far as I am aware, the price range shown would be about right

yes i was originally looking for a small to medium dog but now i have actually met lots of different breeds and researched them I have changed my mind. Yes I have met several spinone and their owners in their homes and been really impressed by the breed. I do know they need lots of exercise...according to the spinone owners i met not as much as the springer cross I used to have!!

I don't understand why some of the people on this board are trying to make out that i am diificult or suggesting i haven't done my homework and the personal attack, saying they can understand why I'm having difficulties communicating with breeders is just offensive. I'm not having difficultues at all with the two breeders I've found. They both seem to be lovely. It is not nice having people whoever they are being rude about your kids when you've never met them and know nothing about them. Some breeders I've spoken too have launched off on one within the first minute of speaking to them. We can all generalise about whole sections of society but it isnb't actually right whatever you do for a living.  Am I not also allowed to have an oppinion?

Thanks very much for all the supportive posts however. They have been very helpful.

Hi there. I'm in the South West. I'm pretty sure I have discovered all the pros and cons of spinoni. I have met a few now. I'm not hugely houseproud so the drooling and the yucky beard and the big hairy dirty feet don't bother me. Thanks for the price info. I looked on the epupz website to see if the prices were right for other breeds (no spinoni on there) and they all seemed to be more. Bulldogs for example...on the petplanet site I think it said the average cost was £800 but all the ads (and there are loads of them) were asking £1500-£2000! Is this just breeders trying to rip dog lovers off? Or is that the actual going rate. If the Spinoni cost is about what it says on the petplanet info then that is okay with me. Anyway. I'm going to speak to the breeder again today so I'll jus ask .

Hi

The going rate for Bulldogs is about £1500 - £2000 so I think the pet planet site is a bit out of date so I wouldn't take it as gospel. Just had a look at my own breed on that site and it is way off with the average price. Have you tried ringing the breed club as they will be able to give you an accurate idea of what to expect to pay for a well bred pup from a reputable breeder. Good luck with your search they are a lovely breed of dog.

Hi again,

It's good you're not houseproud, but you will still be surprised how blase you will become about the slime and you'll learn to duck automatically when your Spin shakes it's head or to scoop it out your eyes or hair when you didn't duck in time :D  You're too far away from me (I'm in Scotland) or I would have happily met up with you to let your children meet my boys.  Good luck in your search for a puppy :)

Lesley

Thanks!
I look forward to wiping the flying slime out of my hair and off my clothes!
I'll let you know how it all goes. What colours are your spinoni?

I don't breed but I have friends who do and also a friend who is one of the 3 breed rescue contacts in my breed for Scotland. As someone has already said when it goes wrong all to often the pup has to be gone NOW!! That's why I have my boy he clashed with child in the house and naturally the parents priority was the child. They had done loads of research into the breed but didn't realise that a working bred pup was a different ball game.

I think good breeders are going to be influenced by previous experience as we all are. If they have homed a pup with children and it's gone wrong it will make them that bit more concerned about repeating the same circumstances.

It isn't a judgement on prospective owners or their children just an effort to save everyone the heartbreak

Anne

I have a brown roan and an orange roan :)  Keep us posted as to how you get on :)

Lesley

HI

I have a Bracco Italiano bitch.  Bracci have very similar natures to Spinone and they are wonderful family dogs.  One thing I did notice when I got Ruby though was the amount of "wetness" she generates!!!!!  She blows as she is drinking then wanders across the lounge and stands in the middle to shake - the water going all up the walls.  Also, after dinner you have to wipe her clean as she has food everywhere - all over her ears, nose and jowls.  However, that said I wouldn't swap her for the world.  Bracco are my most favourite breed - very gentle, docile and loving.  I would say though that I am glad I went for a bitch first time around as they are a lot easier than the dogs.  I think my next will also be a bitch but then I might take the plunge and go for a dog.  I'm currently training Ruby for the gun and she is fabulous.  Good luck with your search.