i had a similar post up a few weeks ago about my springer pup. she was about 10 or 11 weeks old at the time. she is 13 or 14 weeks old now and her fear of strangers is as bad as ever. i have tried letting her watch peaple from a short distance away and she was fine with that, so we started moving closer and she is still fine and happy with that. loves watching the people and even sniffs their shoes and pantlegs, but as soon as anyone takes notice of her, simple things like looking down to see whos at their leg and saying something nice to her like hello, good girl, not even trying to touch her, she backs away behind my legs with the hair on her back standing up. if that person starts ignoring her again she's ok again. even inside my house she reacts very similar. only difference is that she actually jumps around the visitor and wags her tail like she does when she welcomes me home after i've been gone for a while, but again, if they pay any attention to her she's off again behind me eyeing them suspisiously.i have contacted the only puppyclass in my area twice already and they said they'll contact me but there is still no word. i don't know what to do. and to make it worse, she is going to the vet on the weekend to get an injection, which will probably reinforce her people fear even more. please help. i don't want her to have to stay at home all the time when she gets older and the family goes on daytrips because her fear might make her a danger to others. it wouldn't be fair to her or others.

thanks, marleen

Marleen, when you take her to the vet give her lots of titbits. A handful of frankfurter held by her nose will be a great distraction from the vet giving a quick injection! It's always worked with mine!
:)

frankfurters!!!! brilliant idea, i use them for training already and she will do anything for them. i'll bring a few and hope she wont feel the sting from the needle for the excitment of frankfurters! that might work.
thanks jeangenie

Hi Marleen,

By the sound of things you're doing all the right things with your youngster, but some pups are less confident by nature and it takes a lot of time and patience to build their confidence up.  Try not to be over anxious about "windows of socialisation" as the cut-off point for these is not as drastic as is generally advised - think about all the abused, nervous adult dogs who go into rescue and are eventually brought round :)

Keep working with habituating her to every day situations - don't go to too many different places, perhaps think of two that are ideal for having a steady flow of human traffic and make a concentrated effort to visit both each day on separate outings.  The more familiarised she becomes with situations, the less stressed she'll be - just ensure that she's not pressurised.  If people approaching her are too much for her, simply explain to them that she's shy and needs time and ask them not to try to touch or talk to her but just spend a few moments chatting to you instead.  If you remain calm and relaxed, she will slowly but surely become more so too ;)

As to the vet visit, as JG advises, try and take her mind off things with treats - although if a dog is very anxious it won't eat them so this may not work.  Why not pop into the vets a couple of times between now and the weekend - just to let get used to the smells, sounds etc and, if she seems up for it, the staff may stroke her and reassure her.  The injection if very often not even noticed by pups so it could well prove to be something you have no need to worry about :)

Obedience training builds bonds and confidence - so it may be worth trying to get her to do some little tricks as well as the usual come, sit, stay type of training.  This needn't be restricted to when you have your puppy classes set up - at home, indoors and in the garden, if you can focus her little mind for a couple of minutes on something she has to think about and then is rewarded for you will notice her becoming braver too and can then carry these mini-lessons on to when she is away from home with you.

Try not to lose heart - you're doing well and if you can keep motivated you'll get there in the end.  Best wishes, Teri :)  

it is very disheartening to see her frightened by people. the people she meets are on walks and most of them are very understanding of her problem and don't aproach her but after a minute or two i used to ask them to just say something to her without making any effort to touch her. she shy's away and thepeople don't mind at all and just tell me that she will eventually get over it. the only reason i'm worried about her fear is that i'm afraid she'll bite someone when she's big and the authoroties take her away from us. the reason i want to bring her to puppyclasses is to socialise her with other dogs and more people. i train her at home and on walks and she knows sit, down, here, stayand heel already. she's a very smart puppy. it would break my heart if she would be taken away because she bit someone out of fear.

When you meet your usual people on a walk, who're doing the right thing and ignoring her and she's happy with that, as you chat either you or they drop a titbit on the ground, as if it's fallen from a pocket and you haven't noticed. If super-treats appear when you're with other people it might help. Until she's happier about this don't let her think it's being done on purpose - that stage comes a lot later.

Hi again Marleen,

I own a notoriously "sensitive breed" (for that read "natural fearties" :D )  Without rigorous and relentless socialisation for the first 20+ months of their lives, there are many which would back off from any human contact outwith their immediate family.   Shyness and insecurity does not always equate to real nervousness, although can appear very similar initially.  At 13 weeks you really don't have a big problem although I know that sounds easy to say but take it from me, I've been there and got over the obstacles ;)

Please don't get so upset that you continue to focus on she may go on to bite - if you work with her at her own pace, keep patient and don't allow negative experiences of anyone pressurising her, she may still lean to you for security but won't feel the need to snap or bite.  Changes won't happen overnight, or even in a couple of weeks, but they will gradually happen :)

When you can get her into puppy socialisation classes, if reputably run and organised, you'll be demonstrated techniques of how to cope best when she is in a tizzy over something.  You clearly adore her and are doing lots more than many folks do when they have a minor problem - some folks wouldn't even notice and others wouldn't put an effort in!

Regards, Teri :)

   

Marleen, instead of asking people to say something to her (a neutral event, at best, to any raw pup, and to yours obviously a fearful and therefore negative one), why don't you give them a handful of treats and tell them to chuck treats at their feet, while they pay her no attention in any other way - don't look at her or talk to her, just chuck treats on the floor.

ps Just reaslied Jeangenie says exactly the same thing above - I totally agree.

Excellent idea about popping into the vet's waiting room, giving pup a few treats then going straight out again, so that the pup doesn't get negative associations with the place.
:)

Junior was like that and nows he fine....

This is what I did I would tell people to ignore him and allow him to come to them and then I would have them just drop a treat and tell him he's a good boy.... Junior would growl when people got to close.... When people lean over a dog it is threatening to some dogs and some will bite... Best not to give eye contact when talking to the dog.... I had people bend down to his level talk to him but not look at him and offer a treat..... I have read its best to offer a fist but under the chin and not over the head, over the head some see this as a threat which can cause a dog bite..... Junior now I can proudly take him on dog walks and people can pet him.... He also gets along with most dogs which Iam so proud of, it has taken alot of work, time and patience on both our parts... I would also put Junior in a down just anywhere be it in the park where alot of people were waling on the bike path, we would not be on the bike path and I would have him in a down and take a step or two away from him and just watch the people. he soon realized he was ok and nothing bad was going to happen to him..... I hope ur lil one comes around, best of luck :)

Edit: forgot to add if you are tense on the leash because you think she will bite then she senses this thro the leash and more then likely will cause her to bite.... Do not baby her after or during and telling her its ok when people are around because then you are just rewarding her behaviour....

Listen now!

A dog fear for peopel have to reasons.
One...The dog have had a bad experience, two... or it is an inborn attitude.

In the first one..you can traint the dog not be frightened by doing what you are doing. Nextone..you can`t do it that way, because it is the peopel who is the trigger. You have to learn the dog a incompatible behavier in that case. Go to a place where it is e few peoel in some distance but just so far away that the dog dont pay them any notise. Start learning someting else that focus on them. Sitt, laydow. Heelwork or start to dance with your dog(freestyle). You see the picture? When the dog has learned that game of rules and enjoy it,(to pay you attension all the time) try to get closer step by step. You have four main domains where you can find any anser to all your problems.
1. is your reward good anough, and will you dog die, to get it? If not, find something better.
2. Is the timing perfect? Will the dog combine the reward with the behavior? If not train yourself to hit.
3. Are you giving the reward often enough so the motivation dont drop?
4. Do you work in the place or surroundings that the dog handle? If the dog pay attension to the peopel in distance, make it more easy.

By yourself a book..."Dont shoot the dog" By Karen Pryor.
It will change your life

"If not train yourself to hit."

????????

I do hope that isn't meant as it's written????????????

Marleen,

Just wanted to give some encouragement here :)

2 Years ago one of my friends took on a collie cross pup at 12 weeks, the owner was a farmer who's bitch had mated with a stray ( :rolleyes: ) as the farmer didn't want the pups and treats all his animals as 'stock'  the pups were reared in a horse box, the only time they saw any human was when he threw some food in for them and their mother, they had no socialisation :( The mother was definately scared of the farmer (but not of strangers) so its assumed some sort of abuse had taken place.  When my friend found out she insisted on taking the litter (he wouldn't part with mum) and kept one herself, the rest went to rescue.  This little bitch was fearful of everything - especially people   It took a long time, but with perserverance they have manged to enable this bitch to live a normal life.  She will never be effusive with strangers but guests to their home are accepted and she will even come to sit with them :) and accepts fussing :)

The bitch was taken daily to places where she could get used to seeing and hearing people and very slowly she was taken closer and closer to people but at her pace, as described at the top of this thread.  It doesn't happen overnight, it can take months, but eventually you will find that all the hard work is paying off :)

Regards
Dill

yes it means that she have to learn how to hit the behaviour with the reward. Bulls eye so to speak. To reinforce an behavior or bit of a behavior, you have to hit it exact. Se it as you take a picture. What you get is what you get when you take the picture(the click) and nothing else.