DONT YOU JUST HATE IT WHEN RANDOM PEOPLE GO UP TO YOUR DOG AND STROKE IT WITHOUT EVEN ASKING. Im sorry but i just had to say, i was just settleing abbie down in the park after she'd had a mad 10 minutes and a group of old ladies came over with their granchildren and started makeing a fuss over her and the most annoying part of it was that the old ladies gave their permission for their granchildren to stroke abbie! They made her really hyper and she was so hyper she play bit one of the children and they started crying, the old ladies had a go at me for not telling them she is vicious!!! They didnt even ask my permission. :[ SHES ONLY 10 WEEKS OLD FOR GOODNESS SAKE!!!

and the old folk have the cheek to say that young ones today have no manners! :rolleyes:

Yes abbie, it's annoying isn't it?  You tend to learn very quickly to be assertive when the general public are concerned when you have a puppy :(

I have noticed this a lot. I try to be polite, but people see a cute fluffy puppy and can't see that it has teeth and could bite. The real worry for me was when I took her into town the other day and an elderly couple said how lovely she was, so I asked them if they would like to stroke her, so I got her to sit and they were petting her when a woman holding a baby and with a toddler holding her hand came up and didn't even look or make eye contact at me, just looked at the puppy and said 'go on and stoke it' to her child, like it was the child's right to do so. I then immediately said goodbye to the nice couple and walked away. I think it is very irresponsible of people not to ask, and it is infuriating. My puppy trainer said that if people do this, just say, 'sorry, you can't stroke her, she has a skin infection', as it is one of her pet hates!

>My puppy trainer said that if people do this, just say, 'sorry, you can't stroke her, she has a skin infection', as it is one of her pet hates!

:-D :-D, I like that one, I must remember it.  Having adult GSD's it's very rare that someone comes up and strokes them without asking.  In fact I can't remember the last time it happened.  But I do think it's rude to stroke or maul someone elses dog without asking.  Why can't these people ask first, it's polite, respectful and shows good manners.

I actually think it is a shame, as my GSD puppy is getting so much attention now as a puppy, as soon as she isn't 'cute and fluffy' anymore she has to face being ignored, and even shunned by people who have a stereotype of german shepherds are being vicious dogs! I mean, I must admit, I love her so much I do like to share her with others, and I am very rpoud of her, I just wish they would ask first!

Yes peoples perceptions of dogs are a problem, we have a 6 month old GR and it is a nightmare out walking when there are a lot of people around.  Everyone assumes that GRs are cute well behaved and placid dogs who will just accept complete strangers coming up and stroking them etc.  Of course 95% of the time our GR is a cute well behaved placid dog :D but if someone frightens her and she barks or even worse bites (she has never done this) she is the one who will be blamed for it.

I to just wish people would ask then I can get her to sit down and prepare her to be introduced.

I don't know what it is like in your area, Nannyogg, but my GSD's aren't ignored or shunned. Usually someone comes over, starts taking dogs; Spender shoves his nose into their hand or goes for a sniff, Sheba goes for a sniff and they get stroked or petted.   If they don't bother which is very rare, the person will ask, are they okay with a stroke? 

My girl was a rescue and a fear biter with defense aggression towards strange people.  We spent years socializing her with strange people in a controlled manner.  But it's very rare that a stranger just comes up and starts petting the dogs without some sort of conversation with us beforehand or telling their kids to pet the dogs without asking us first.  It never happens.  On occasions some have asked 'do they bite'?  To which I laugh and make some witty comment.  But young pups do in general get more attention than adult dogs.

When I have walked mine in busy cities, some people tend to keep a distance but not all.  When we are waiting outside a shop, Spenders has a habit of lying down hogging the footpath and people step all over him and I ask him to move.  He couldn't care less.  Some people have a conception that all GSD's are aggressive but I honestly think these people are in the minority in this day and age. 

When I ahve taken my freinds dobe pups out for soccialisation as puppies people adore them, byt the time theya re five months old they cross teh street.

It ges a little annoying when we go out together and everyone wants to fuss my lot and ignores the dobe.

It was lovely oen day when someone stopped their car and came over to ask about HIM for a change, and then while waiting for her to run an errand outside the supermarket I was approached by soemone interested in him as he used to shwo GSD's and after loosing the eldest one was thinking of having a dobe or Rottie.

This happens constantly when I'm taking Poppy for a walk round the village.  I'm teaching her to sit and wait at the kerb.  I tell her "wait" just as we get to the kerb, she sits and looks at me, and waits for her treat, while I'm giving her the treat and she's eating it, it gives me time to look round for traffic, Poppy waits til I say "good girl, over" and then walks across the road.  But time and time again, we get to the treat stage, I'm just about to say "Good girl, over" and someone will come up behind and start stroking her, so I have to start all over again!  I have on occasion let rip, and won't repeat what I said, but people can see she's only young and is obviously being trained. 

In the 4 months we've had Poppy, only 2 people have ever actually ASKED if they can stroke her, one was a girl of about 9 and the other was a boy of about 17!!  I try to discourage Poppy from jumping up at people in the street, but I have to say some people actually encourage her, it just makes training 10 times harder.

I know *rolls eyes* I dont mind if people ask at all, because i say "ok then you can stroke her but be careful because she can get very over exited and she play bites" and thats ok, its just when i get swamped by a bunch of elderly women and young children giving me evil looks when it wasnt even my fault.

I had a big rant aout similar just after crufts after witnessing things at crufts :(

To make the world fine again we were at the vets this afternoon.  a young girl came up who was also in the waiting room with her mum and new puppy and asked to stroke our dog!

She also found on one of the hill's science leaflets that it was the same breed of dog...not bad considering we have an "endangerd" breed that no-one knows about....

I'm sorry to hear about your experiance.  Maybe the poor old ladies where going abit senile (sp) ;) (not saying all old people are!)

I just find being polite and telling people do they mind not stroking them or encouraging them to jump up works very well. :)

People do not usually come up and stroke my girls as I tend to keep them away as much as I can from Joe Public as they are normally wet and covered in mud ( the girls that is :D ) so don't want to risk four muddy paws on their clean clothes :)

If somebody does come and stroke them I ask them to wait and ask the girls to sit and stay and then let them stroke them. If they get too excited I step in and make them sit again before they carry on fussing :)

Lucy
xx

If you have one person / set of people who constantly come across every time they see you with your pup and, despite being asked not to encourage them to jump up etc, they still do I find the best way to deal with it is to *let* your dog jump up and make them wet and muddy and get covered in hairs and dog drool, if they moan simply say 'well she's still a baby and prone to a little excitement' or 'sorry, I thought you wanted my dog to jump all over you and that's why you came over making silly high pitched excitable noises that are bound to make any dog act this way' - they soon learn to stay away from you and you can get back to training your dog :)

Years ago I lived in a house with an OES. She had beemn tormented by children at the breeders and really didn't like small children. Unfortunately at the time they were using them to sell paint :-( we took her into town one day and as I was waiting with her for her owner to come out of the bank at child of no more than about 3 ran up and grabbed her in a bear hug.  I instinctively pulled on the lead and watched her jaws snap shut a couple of inches from the childs face. She had just run straight at us without any warning and I was furious. The mother demanded to know why I hadn't told her "it" was vicious to which I replied "it's your child, didn't you know?" I don't mind people saying hello to my pup as long as they ask me and not too many at once. No one yet has dared to come near him without speaking to me first, maybe I am just too scary ;-)

Never mind the fact that it's bad manners, it's also  a "safe" thing to do.  I wouldn't dream of stroking any dog, large or small, without asking first. :)  You have no idea of a dog's temperament just by looking at it.  Common sense always makes me ask first. :)

>>>The mother demanded to know why I hadn't told her "it" was vicious to which I replied "it's your child, didn't you know?"

LOL :D :D :D

I have a similar problem, I have an 18 week old shih tzu puppy (Coco), and I always have her with me in town and there is this one woman who always seems to appear out of nowhere and she picks her up, which infuriates me no end. I was speaking to somone else (Caroline) who also has a shih tzu (Hattie) only hers is a few months older than mine and we was chatting one day when this woman suddenly appeared and started making a fuss of the two dogs, asking if they were sisters, and did we get them from same litter (dogs completly different sizes).

Caroline then told me later that when her dog was much yopunger she once picked her up without her permission and Hattie was that scared, coz this woman squeezed her that she wet herself, and another time she almost dropped her.

So the time after that, I was just about to sit down outside a cafe when she was there and she turned around and said oooh this is my dog and bent down to pick her up and I said "excuse me, but can you not pick her up please she has a sensitive tummy". "Oh why whats up with her" "She just has a sensitive tummy and i don't want you picking her up".

The next time I saw Caroline she told me she saw this woman who said to her "Oh I won't pick her up as she has a sensitive tummy" Dozy cow couldn't tell difference between Coco and Hattie.

Then last week I spotted her at a distance (for once) and said to my mum, theres that flamming woman, we will go around this way and hopefully she'll not notice me. Needless to say a few mins later I am walking along when I heard "Oh isn't she gorgeous, isn't she gorgeous" thinking it was someone who wanted to pet the dog I turned around to find "Her", I blanked her totally and carried on walking.

I am hoping this method works, time will tell.

But it does bug me when people allow their kids or even adults do it sometimes, they just come up and start stroking the dog without asking first.

1. Its only polite and good manners to ask the owner if its ok to stoke their dog.
2. You have no way of knowing if the dog is ok with strangers stoking it, whether its ok with children stoking it, and I think if the dog does snap at them then its the fault of the ignorant person's fault who didn't ask in the first place.

In some sort of daft way, doesn't it make sence for a puppy to have people coming out of nowhere and stroking him? Wouldn't it be part of socialisation? I am waiting for the "Why hasn't you Collie got a tail?" (we are getting an Aussie) remarks, and I am sure I will moaning on people who think they know it all, but doesn't it sort of make sence to get a dog used to being stroked by 'pushy' strangers, if that it how the general public are?

I am not saying it makes it right for people to come out of nowhere and stroke them with out asking, but if this happens so often aren't we better letting the dog's get used to it, so that when it does happen he will be OK?

You have a very good point there, Natalie. It's something that our dogs need to be able to cope with to avoid a possibly very nasty incident somewhere down the line. It may be bad manners and annoying, but that's life I'm afraid.

(I also find it quite amusing that people in one breath complain about people making a fuss of their puppy, then a few months later grumble about them crossing over the road to avoid them! The devil in me wonders if it's because the owner was so unfriendly that it's put people off the dog? ;))

I can see exactly where you are coming from Natalie :)  My Cocker was a very cute puppy and a less common colour which attached a deal of attention some popping up out of nowhere and has always taken it without a flicker.  We don't have children of our own so the attentions of children at that stage was very useful and if some squeezed a bit hard, well I was there to say something (kindly ;)) to steady the child even if the mother didn't spot it.  Consequently Amber has always been great with children, infact, they seem her favourite people men are far more likely to be treated with a slight degree of caution perhaps because fewer men lunged at her from an early age :)
As you say these things are going to happen in life and I would list them on the "things to encounter" and get over along with people with hats and trains.

I thought there was a bit of sence in there somewhere!!! ;) :P

As I said it doesn't make it right that people do silly things, but if they are going to do it, then we should at least prepare our dog's for it, otherwise it will be the dog that suffers in the end.

My dogs always attract people wanting to stroke them which I really dont mind but it is nice to be asked.  Its ok when the socialisation is good but its when people scare your pup and that can be a major set back.  I had two young girls at a campsite come over to Fagan and start wrapping him up in his blanket and putting it over his head, luckily he is a good natured dog and it could really upset a slightly more nervous dog.

I can see where you are coming from, especially say if you had a rescue dog, that was nervous and someone came up and scared them, but I think with a puppy, as long as you watch out for people/children hurting them, IMO it is better for the dog's sake to get them used to being molly-cuddled by strangers.

I know I would feel happier with a puppy/dog that I could trust with strangers, than one that I think might turn and snap one day.

I can also see where you are coming from. I take my pup out with me every day for socialisation to all different places, parks, the high street, car parks, shops etc. However, what is a concern in this day and age is if a pup or a dog 'play bites' a child, and then you are possibly at risk of their [arents taking legal proceedings against you which directly puts your dog at risk. That is what I really worry about, that someone caomes over, strokes or hugs my dog without permission and then gets a nip and decides to take things to one of these awful 'no win, no fee' places or something like that. That is what worries me, as not everyone out there understands that puppies bite out of play and not out of aggression, but I do take your point.

I see that point too NannyOgg :) although even my terrier who adored a bit of "roughhousing" around her own people never made free with that sort of thing with strangers of a few minutes aquaintance.  If you have a nervous by nature puppy likely to respond with a real snap rather than a playbite then I guess you are going to need to be rather more on your guard but in balance I still think the value of early socialisation is greater than the risk, obviously, as the puppy grows, if its nature does not improve then I suppose you would have to take greater steps even to the point of muzzling but you would hope that lots of early encounters would actually work towards preventing that except in the case of a truly bad natured pup not something I would be buying in the first place :)

Coming from a complete novice here, but I completely agree with you Isabel. We have a three year old, who I expect at some point will do a bit of proding and poking where he shouldn't with the pup, and although we will to an extent stop him, I am not intending to stop it completely - unless of course he his hurting the dog - because I think a dog should be able to 'put up' with a bit rough-ish play, and except that sometimes, whether it be my son, or other kids, or the little old lady that hit out at a dog with a stick in the other thread, the dog needs to be able to deal with a certain ammount of proding/grabbing/fear, for it to be stable in these sort of situations.

BTW, I am not saying at all that the little old lady was helping the dog get socialised, just that if the dog would have retaliated and bitten the old boot, it would have been the dog's fault, to save that from happening if the dog is used to things coming out of nowhere, and a little bit of uncertainty, then you would expect the dog to react in a calm manor, and not find himself getting taken away to be pts, because he is a 'dangerous dog' - JMO :)

Oh i get it all the time , when my jojo was 7 months old he still had a little puppy nip. A bunch of little kids came over with some elderly women that was supposedly watching them. The kids thought he was going to bite because he would put his nose out and sniff there hands when they got close , so they kept waving there arms around. Jojo thought it was a game and lightly snapped drawing blood. I said "Oh well your fault" , the women came as quick as she could and told me i should have a muzzle on him i politely told her to !@#$ off =/.

This too pisses me off to no end , the reason why i don't care if the children or anyone gets bitten if they approach my dogs without saying a word.

Yeah thanks for that... the tips were really good :) some of them really made me laugh but i see what you are meaning by the socialisation

When our two grandchildren from Hong Kong were over, I had a great deal of trouble...training THEM!!   We were on a beach having great fun, as were a few dogs - when Ella & Jared decided that they would join the dogs & play with their ball !     I rushed to get them back, and explained that it was just NOT fair to the dogs - they didn't know the children & could have thought that they were about to pinch the ball & if they rushed for it, they might have accidentally snapped at their fingers.    They did take it on board, and the owners heard what I said & appreciated it - then let the kids throw the ball for the dogs & all had a great time.

Trouble is, the children have been taught not to go near any dog in the Far East - unless it is with a European (the reason being rabies, etc) - so, being used to playing & rushing for balls with our dogs, they thought they could do this with any dog they saw!   They are sooo desparate for a dog of their own - but a labrador in a 17th floor condo is a definite no no!

On the training of puppies - I wonder if it would be possible to get the same sort of vests or harnesses worn by puppies in training for assistance - just saying "puppy in training - please do not touch" - might be worth looking into!

Margot

Margot,

>On the training of puppies - I wonder if it would be possible to get the same sort of vests or harnesses worn by puppies in training for assistance - just saying "puppy in training - please do not touch" - might be worth looking into!

That is a really good idea, will look for one when I get back from school, just to see if you can get them! :D

Nat xxx

Have to agree with you there, my lot are bombproof even with idiots. 

As a breed they are friendly, especially as youngsters, but I have seen them give that snooty (we haven't been properly introduced) look when suffering the attentions of someone pushy. 

Mind generally it is them vying for attention of anyone that will give it :D

My dad's probably the worst offender with my lot - my mum isn't too keen on dogs, and my dad gets them all excited by woofing at them and encouraging them to jump up and lick his face when he visits. Then they jump all over my mum which doesn't go down too well :-D