Well what does everyone think of Andrew Brace's resignation then?

I say good on him and it's shown the KC in their true light!  How can they allow pet dogs to go to a show and make the rest of us pay the £11 or whatever pounds it is to take our dogs NFC?  Fot these people to go and for them not to have a clue whether they have ever been vaccinated etc.

Although I think much of the KC has improved in the last 5 years or show I couldn't believe this new ruling.  How do others feel?

edited:  Ooh, couldn't be bothered editing it but the above line was supposed to be "in the last 5 years or so" :d

Show dogs do not have to provide proof they are vaccinated.  At the last welsh show all those who were camping were walking their dogs around the show ground whether entered or not.  I dont particularly agree with it but more from the point of view I dont think it is a good idea for pet dogs to be in such a crowded atmosphere.

I dont under stand what you are saying, You say pet dogs were being walked round, at the show or just around the campsite? all my dogs are pet dogs even if they are shown.

the new ruling says something like when we enter our dogs to show and want to enter another dog nfc we have to pay whatever the nfc charge is, but for visitors to the show they don't pay anything they just have to sign a declaration at the entrance to the show saying there dog is of good health etc,
I also got the impression that shows had to ask permission from the kc to be allowed to say visitors dogs where welcome and the kc would make the decsion if the show could allow visitors, i am not sure maybe got this bit wrong.
and does this apply to crufts would people be allowed to take their dogs to crufts for a visit.
i am hoping that i got some of this right
carol

Why did he resign? Every dog entered in shows in Europe have to be seen by a vet before they are allowed to enter the show. They have to show all documentation and be seen to be healthy. We could learn alot from this here I think.

It was on the front of the dog papers, he said something against the new kennel club ruling and the kennel club wasnt happy about it so he resigned (in a nutshell ;)  )

So, if the show secretary says it is OK for 'pet' dogs to enter the show ground but they have to pay whatever the NFC cost is (£11 whatever) and show there up to date vaccination records (which all responsible dog owners will have) would that be acceptable ?

If they don't pay or show the up to date records they don't come in, but that would have to cover ALL dogs be they members of the public, exhibitors or NFC - simple isn't it ;)

the reason we pay so much for NFC is for the bench, I wonder if pet dogs would, therefore, be provided with a bench.  And seeing as show dogs are *supposed* to stay on their benches unless exhibiting or excercising should this be the same for unentered dogs ? 

I know that - but I was asking the original poster, who seemed to have a gripe with regards to the money side of things, if pet owners had to pay and show proof of up to date vacs if they then thought it would be ok ? :)

There are a lot of owners out there that have both a 'show' dog and a cross / rescue dog that they would like to bring along - I for one would pay the NFC cost no problem as I do not want to leave my cross in kennels. 

Having just spoken to the KC they have informed me that in theory as my cross is on the activity register that I can enter him as NFC which is good news for me ;)  But, they have advised to double check with the show secretary in cases of NFC not being available - obviously.

I am in two minds as to whether public dogs should be allowed in the actual show ground / ring - could be potentially a lot of dogs around which can be quite stressful to say the least - but the KC is trying to change it's image to include ALL family members and make dog ownership a positive thing, whether you have a pedigree or crossbreed / mongrel - but I think like all things it does need a little fine tuning before it will be able to work and keep the majority of people happy :)

Oh, and it isn't just pet dogs that would cause a problem in the show ground around the ring side - at a recent companion show I was at there was one particular exhibitor who thought it was perfectly ok for their dog to roll around at the side of the ring which ended up with the dog rolling actually IN the ring which put off quite a few dogs (mine included ) and this exhibitor has a full pedigree dog which they show 'professionally' !

I pay NFC for my non show dog, who is kc reg so it isnt a problem but I would rather do this than leave him home alone or in the unentered dogs tent all on his todd :(

I personally dont think unentered dogs owned by joe public should be allowed, it is really just the worry that *some* people wont look after their dog responsibly and you will end up with dogs off lead, or my worst pet hate dogs on long leads wandering into rings etc. 

And what about when exhibitors work out a way round and manage to get their unentered dogs in, they wont have a bench so there will end up even more cages around the benching areas/ringside (for those with larger breeds who cant fit two dogs on a bench)

No The  new KC spectator dog rules means Joe Public turns up & signs a declaration & gets a sticky label & then gets the dog in for nothing

All shows have to accept the NFC entries if you have entered another dog(show sec hat on here !)

So if you enter one dog, you have to NFC any other you want to take

But if you don't enter at all & the show is allowing spectator dogs you turn up complete the dec & in you go four nowt !

Which another that galls me

Okay there have been a few misunderstandings in this thread. For a start, NO this will NOT apply to Crufts. Secondly, NO the spectator dogs will NOT have to pay the same high fee as we do for NFC, and they will NOT be provided with a bench. Which I personally think is one main part of the gripe I have against the idea -if I want to take one of my own unentered dogs with me and am NOT bothered about it needing a bench, I can't without paying the NFC fee, but Joe Bloggs down the road who isn't showing could!

If anybody wants it, I DO have the press release about this as I get all KC press releases sent to me as a breed note writer, so could e-mail it (it is a Word doc) to anyone who wants to read it in its entirety. (Later today -am off to the vets now!) PM me with e-mail address in that case.

In answer to the first and main question...Good on him!!!!! 

I agree ice queen, there is no point him staying there if he doesnt believe in their practices and he is making a good stand :)

Is it not just a case of 'joe public' realising their mistakes in buying a cross breed dog (due to health reasons etc..) Wanting to learn more about dog breeds and take an interest in the show world ?? Surely if 'joe public' turned up at a show without their dog for 8-10 hours they would be wrong for leaving the dog at home unattended, not everyone has someone who will dog sit. Is it not in the shows best interest to educate everyone whether they have shown before or not ?? It just seems like 'joe public' get critsised for not knowing enough then critised for trying to take an interest.  Everybody has to start somewhere.

I think the point that would concern me most is not getting INTO the show - but getting out!

What would there be to stop anyone determined enough to steal a dog, and just walk it out, as a member of the public with his/her "pet" dog??   I put the "pet" in inverts, bcause, in my view, ALL our dogs are pets, be they show dogs or otherwise.

At the moment, as one leaves a show, one has to show the release pass - how would this work in future?

Margot

At southern counties if you entered the companion show you were allowed to walk your dog around the show ground and they gave you an exit pass, I dont think it had a particular breed or anything on it though.

It doesnt bother me people taking their dogs around dog shows, what will bother me is if those dogs are out of control, fellow exhibitors, as a rule, have respect for each other and wont let the dogs interfere with others I just hope joe public have this same respect and we dont end up with dog fights etc :(

Surely you have the same chance of having your dog stolen by a jelous breeder ?? Why would 'joe public' be any more inclined to steal a dog ?? I dont agree with being called 'joe public' non showers would do !! What makes a dog shower any less joe public than anyone else ?? It's hard enough trying to find out any information on the show world if you dont have experience as it is without it being made worse. There are general pet lovers and pet owners that are geuinly interested in learning more about dog breeds, and if they own a cross breed then maybe they would realise their mistake in buying dogs from puppy farms etc.. How is anyone expected to learn if they are shut out ?? I've had dogs all my life and never has one been a pedigree, untill recently i've never really understood the problem. Being in the position to show and breed dogs should enable you to educate people NOT shut them out. If this sounds like ranting im sorry it's not i'm just trying to get a better understanding of what really goes on in these shows.
Yours faithfully
'Joe Public'

There are general pet lovers and pet owners that are geuinly interested in learning more about dog breeds, and if they own a cross breed then maybe they would realise their mistake in buying dogs from puppy farms etc.. How is anyone expected to learn if they are shut out ??
Discover Dogs is exactly for those people.  Public dogs are not allowed there either.  Dogs shows are open to the public at any time, but not their dogs before.

I don't think the main worry for me is the potential to spread disease, that is already there, I know lots of unvaccinated dogs that go to shows. I'm more worried about how easy it will become for someone to come in and steal your dog off the bench, then walk out with their 'pet'. Remember a few years ago when quite a lot of dogs were stolen from benches (at Darlington and City of Birmingham I think). The KC said that shows would have to step up security considerably. How many shows have we been to since then where passes aren't checked in or out ?

I have never been to a show where my exit passes have not been checked :)

Have you never been to Border Union then, for a start?!

er.. Husky there really is no need to take that tone with me, I was only making a factual statement :rolleyes:

and no I havent been to border union, but that is just one show, I have been to plenty of others and all of those I have been asked for exit passes.

I go to Border Union & they opened the tailgate to check the dogs against the exit passes(my dogs can't be seen from the outside)

My concern is that if a spectator dog bites or attacks a exhibitor/exhibit who is liable ? The show's insurance ? Nothing to stop the same dog going to another show doing the same etc The mind boggles.

The idea of a jealous breeder stealing another person's dog is a virtual non starter as they too would need an exit pass, but a spectator dog pass is just a printed number with a self adhesive back just like any type of laser/inkjet label so nothing to stop someone waltzing off with a dog with a homemade label !

The idea of a jealous breeder stealing another person's dog is a virtual non starter as they too would need an exit pass, but a spectator dog pass is just a printed number with a self adhesive back just like any type of laser/inkjet label so nothing to stop someone waltzing off with a dog with a homemade label !

And the only people capable of doing this is spectators ??

Not taking a tone Claire :-) Just pointing out that just because you've never not had your dogs checked out that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've never had a dog checked in or out at Border Union. Southern Counties is another example. We pay a lot of money to enter these shows and it's just not good enough. Have you ever, for instance driven a van out of a show and showed your passes, and they've never looked in the van to see if they correspond with the number of dogs?

I know it happens but I believe it is the minority of cases (but then I could be wrong ;) ) my car has always been checked for the amount of dogs too, thats very bad they didnt check your van :(

I bred one of the dogs stolen at Birmingham!!!

No way no how is my opinion.

The majority of show dogs are trained from an early age to tolerate and be around other dogs, how many "pet owners" (non showers") can say that.  Yes there are certain breeds that I am wary of at shows, but what about a scenario where Nice family with large reasonably trained dog, decide to visit a show, give large reasonably trained dog to 7/8 year old to lead round, dog gets a little too close on the end of the lead to one of the hyped sharper breed of show dogs, who flys at large reasonably trained dog, and a fight commences, child is badly injured in the fray.  Show insurance has to pay out god knows how much.  So eventually getting Insurance becomes almost a financial impossibility for some Shows as the premiums have gone sky high.  Yet another Show or shows is not there for us to enjoy anymore.

It is also worth remembering that if a club decides they don't want to let them in then I believe ( although not seen it in print as yet)  they have the right not to take part.

I know a few breed clubs that are not allowing it at their shows.

Blue they do not need to have to take part! :)  If a club doesn't want to know then they don't have to!

That is what I thought ;-)

I do think that one exhibitor stealing another's dogs is far fetched & being blown out of all proportion Nobbling is much more likely, My champion beardie had her coat cut & a gluey substance rubbed into it in a matter of seconds & the person was seen & banned !

If a spectator dog attacks a person/exhibit nothing can be done to stop it going to another show unless the other shows take out injunctions against the owner, an entered/KC reg dog that does the same can be banned I cannot see shows going to court & paying a lot of money just to do this

I'm sorry but if a person is sick enough to do such a thing to a dog then that same person is just as capable of getting the so called 'joe public' to steal the dog!!:( I always thought that showing a dog could be fun but quite honestly im glad i am only a 'pet owner' there seems to be much more enjoyment in just loving a dog, as opposed to having someone nobble your dog or the worry of 'joe public' coming to a show and stealing him/her.

Dogs are stolen from all over the place - outside shops, from people's gardens, even snatched on the street. :(

I'd hope that dog shows would keep the entrants' property safe, and minimise the risk by only allowing entered dogs in.

This thread has very much gone off topic and away from Andrew Brace. I will branch it when I get time, but in the mean time can I ask that any further comments on the actual press release (that trigger Andrews resignation) be placed in the other thread. Comments about Andrew Brace decision can continue here :)