I previously asked the question re father/daughter matings. I cannot join champdogs at the mo as can only use net at work. What i also wanted to ask was say if the breeders were very knowledgable, all the pedigrees had been looked at etc, would anyone be embarassed to own the reult of a father daughter mating? And would you be looked down upon in the show world for owning a pup that was the result of such a mating?

Embarrassed? No. Looked down on? Not if the dog's high quality.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. A healthy, stunning dog will be more desirable than a healthy, mediocre dog, whatever the breeding.
:)

It is a done thing in the showing world by experienced breeders.

Warm regards Susan

>It is a done thing in the showing world by experienced breeders.

It's a sad day when breeders have to inbreed to produce a good example of the breed for the show world.

It's a sad day when breeders have to inbreed to produce a good example of the breed for the show world.

They are trying to produce the best example not for the show world but, as custodians of their breed, for future generations!  Continual outcrossing doesn't produce consistency.  There are times when both types of breeding are appropriate.  As always, the MOST important thing, whatever mating is done, is to know the ancestors.

I thought most breeders' line breed, not inbreed, to produce consistency, Val? 

It depends entirely on the knowledge of the breeder and the quality of the dogs on the pedigree.  There is no 'most';).  As I keep saying, it depends entirely on the virtues and faults of the dogs on the pedigree whether it is a good or bad idea.  I wouldn't think it was a good idea to inbreed if the breeder didn't have intimate knowledge of their bitch and the dog that was to be used - but then I don't think it's a good idea for anyone without a thorough knowledge to be producing a litter at all because outcrossing puts even more possibilities (not probabilities) into the pot! :)
Our top breeder mated a dog back to his Mother and produced a lovely litter.  One of the dogs was exported to the continent where he has produced superb puppies to outcross bitches.

I do see your point Val, but with regards to inbreeding, I think I'll remain sitting on the fence for now.... :D: It was a well known fact in days of old that inbreeding caused more problems than it was worth. 

However, I can see how it may be successful using suitable outcrosses; I can also see how it can be a quick method to maintain continued success in the ring,  but where does one go in the following generations?... keep outcrossing?.... Inbreed again at a suitable time?  If lots and lots of breeders do it, what does it mean for future generations of progeny?  I suppose it's like asking how long is a piece of string. 

I did know of some breeders abroad (a few years ago, I don't know if it's still being done) who test breed by inbreeding a new stud dog as a one off to bring out recessive traits.  But that was the only inbreeding they would do. 

It certainly was done by successful breeders in the past to see what the new blood had hiden to mate a half brother and sister of the new blood, so that oen cdould know sooner than later what traits one was dealing with, then if there was something too bad the new blood was not continued with.

Is it still being done, Brainless?  Or is a past thing now?

I would say it is still being done, but perhaps more likely to be an uncle to neice rather than half siblings.

As a general rule, the oldies used to say "In twice (not necessarily in breeding!) then out once) to maintain health, quality and type.

Can I just point out that a father-daughter mating is inbreeding, not linebreeding. Inbreeding is normally brother-sister or parent-child matings. Linebreeding is for example, if you have a common dog in the first 5 generations - obviously dogs can be more closely linbred or even be linebred on several different lines. Some breeders will research further back than 5 generations etc... this is just an example.

This is one of those issues on which human morality is at odds with good practice in animal husbandry.  People often shy away from in/linebreeding becasue they consider it incestous.  However, animal are not humans, much as we may love them.  The old breeders used to use inbreeding as a tool to prove the quality of the stock - it is the quickest way to prove both virtues and problems.  It is seen by many now to be too extreme, but done correclty, with in depth knowledge and first class animals, it fixes type and can produce spectacular animals to further a breed.  Many top kennels use consistent linebreeding, and in breeding, to rpduce first class animals.  It is not something to be considered by the novice, or without complete and indepth knowledge of at lest 5 generations of a pedigree.  AS one of the other posters said, a good dog, bred from top quality parents, will be admired in the show ring, not shunned.
bye
Gwen

It is not something to be considered by the novice, or without complete and indepth knowledge of at lest 5 generations of a pedigree.

I couldn't agree more but I think that applies to any sort of breeding Gwen! ;)