how do you get the dog to let you have the ball back so you gan throw it again?  small throws in the house and garden he will return as i taught him to with rewards but as soon as i go to the field and throw it a long way he wont return it. I dont chase him , any ideas?

As soon as he catches it, trot in the opposite direction and he'll run to catch up with you (hopefully with the ball still in his mouth!).  Reward in your normal manner, add a big fuss and he'll soon fall in.

Some dogs just don't do fetch outside!!!!  My setters never bring a ball back outside.  They got it once, they will not give it back to you to throw again for them to go and fetch!  :D  On the other hand aussies throw it in your hand...ARGH!!!!! :D

try playing football then move onto the little ball ....

My technique from the outset is if it isn't returned it isn't thrown again & I mean returned to hand not dropped. I use a tuggy to start with & lol sadly give the tuggy a name ;) so at first everytime it is brought back we play tuggy with mr tuggy(thank goodness no one can hear me :D) & teach the give command, then when the dog releases I throw it again & repeat a little & often. My puppy took all of one day to learn(he's on my dogs website retrieving from day  two at home with me) I even have my wayward cavaliers retrieving by doing the same.

Then when you go public so to speak the dog is doing a proper play retrieve

My view on dog training for anything is that it should be fun for the dog sounds to me like you are half way there try a tuggy or ball on a rope(lol named mr bally even ;) )so that you can both have hold of it together

My two idiots don't even bring it back!
They wait for me to throw it....chase after it excitedly....pounce on it to stop it (if it's a ball) then look at me as if to say "If you really want it come and get it yourself :rolleyes:"!

That is why I never bothered with a ball for mine, they judt aren't retrieve orientated, I suppose a Moose would be just too big to retrieve :D  Now my most non retrieving bitch will bring me presents, either live fledglings or any dead animal, like pigeon, wter vole etc.  I always praise for this, as I learnt from her motehr if I showed disapproval tehn she would just go off and eat ehr prize, yuk!  so now I get al excited and reward with a treat and bag the dead animal, or find somewhere safe for the live ones.

Naming toys is certainly a very rewarding trick for you to teach your pup. My pup has known about 30 toys and will retrieve about 15 of them reliably on command. This is very good when we are watching a movie and he insists on playing with a noisy toy that has a squeek or a bell, we can tell him to go get a "tennis ball" instead, or his "kong" to chew on... And in the park if he dosent return with the "the ball" i can tell him to go "get the ball" and he knows what i want... unless he is distracted...

As for fetching, well i do agree that some dogs just are fetch orientated. The very day i brought home my 7?week old pup he was fetching over *very* short distances... He had a thing for gum leaves and nuts, so we went with it, throwing them all of 1 foot. He would just bring them back to my feet to play with them. Throw, repeat...

He wasnt treat orientated either, more for the fun of the chase of what ever object was thrown, and for the 'kill'...

Play the two ball game, if the dog likes to run after the ball but not bring it back wave another ball at it he will come towards you and drop the first one as you throw the second one.

Keep throwing to the left and right so that you remain the centre of the game, and progress from there.