Hi
I am hoping that someone on this forum will be able to offer me some advice.  I have quite a lot of practical experience training dogs for a variety of disciplines.  I am now looking at taking some form of correspondence course in the hope of setting up a small business.  I have found a number of courses but wondered if anyone here had any experience.  I am looking at the COAPE course at present but I would like to make sure that I find something that is suitable, both financially and containing suitable content.  Any advice will be gratefully received.

I like COAPE very much and it's tutored by IMO some top trainers and behaviourists :)

Depends really on exactly what you want; I believe strongly and good dog trainer will have behavioural knowledge.
There's the correspondence course in canine training and behaviour at Bishop Burton, with block training weeks, also. and see www.ukrcb.co.uk and Carol Price's article.

I also think you can get a lot out of attending seminars and workshops such as TTouch, Angela Stockdale's, etc :)

hth
Lindsay
x

Hi there,

In my opinion, some of the best courses and those recommended by academia are the ones from Compass. They are all recognised and accredited.

http://www.compass-education.co.uk/

I have heard good things about COAPE and there are certainly some good tutors in it. However, when I saw their level 3 course, I found it very simplistic and a bit Mickey Mouse.

All the best and good on you for continuing to learn - we never stop learning.

All the best,
Patty

Hi Lindsay
Thank you very much for the reply.  I think that I have a fairly broad knowledge of dogs both from a companion and competitive point of view but before offering advice to people other than friends I would like to have a greater knowledge of problems I may not have encountered, methods used to cure these problems and the reasoning behind the success of the various options available. I did look at the Bishop Burton course but 6 years is a bit longer than I was hoping for. I have been looking at workshops in TTouch and Clicker Training also.  The biggest problem is that I am based in Scotland and most workshops seem to be held in England.
Hi Patty

Thank you too.  I have a quick look at Compass and will investigate it further.  When you say level 3 on the COAPE course do you know which course it was for?

Hi there,

It was the Think Dog - Advanced course. However, don't take my word for it. I have heard other people liking the course - it's just that I had very high expectations and like to be challenged.

All the best and let us know what your findings are.

Cheers,
Patty

Well I'm amazed.  I had absolutely no idea that there were such things as a correspondence course in dog behaviour.  I would have expected the training to be hands on.  How on earth can you learn to read a dog sitting at home on your own?  Just goes to show how wrong you can be to assume! :rolleyes:
Maybe that would begin to explain why there are so many 'behaviourists' out there who don't have a clue about dogs??!! :(

Ridiculous, isn't it? Whatever next - Teach Yourself Brain Surgery, by correspondence course?

Hey now thats a good idea JG
then i could give the OH a frontal labotomy..... or is that a bottle infront ofme :D :D

Dear Val, Jan & Jane

Your reaction is exactly the reason why I, like many others, log onto Champdogs on a regular basis but rarely post.  I have no problem with people having different opinions but see no need to be quite so derogatory.  As so often happens one small aspect of a post seems to have been latched upon and attacked without looking at the context of the post as a whole.  Jan I notice from your profile that you state "seeker of knowledge" as your occupation.  This is simply what I am doing.  I have many years hands on experience of training dogs for many purposes and now feel that I would like to back this knowledge up with some academic research.  If you re-read my original post one of the reasons I have posted here is because I know that it is possible to call yourself a behaviourist with little or no knowledge to back that up.  I am concerned about the content of the courses available and that is why I have asked for any information other forum members are able to give me.  Please if you can't say anything constructive I would prefer that you did not bother to answer my post.  In my limited experience Positive Reinforcement is a wonderful thing and Negative Reinforcement is to be avoided at all costs!

Hi Helen-Jane,

Yes it is a shame that a handful of people can be so derrogatory and negative. Thankfully, it is only a handful (and we know who, don't we?).

Thankfully it is obvious to posters what sort of attitude this is and how serious to take their advice/comments. :-D

Cheers,
Patty

Helen-Jane, I have a 'paper' qualification as a kindergarten teacher. That's just the basic background stuff. Until I've done several years 'hands-on' with actual children, not just clean, polite, hypothetical ones, the qualification's worthless and I can't call myself a teacher.

Nobody's saying that paper qualifications are worthless - as long as they're backed up by practical experience. You're sensible and are doing it the 'other' way round, by getting the experience then going for the piece of paper. Far from being derogatory towards you, I applaud you for having the nous to realise that some of the courses are a waste of time.

And as for "Please if you can't say anything constructive I would prefer that you did not bother to answer my post." - I didn't! I was replying to Val, and agreeing that it's astounding that it's possible for people to 'qualify' as a behaviourist without ever coming into contact with an actual dog.

Dear Jan

Thank you for the clarification.  As previously stated I do not post often on the forum and did not realise that your answer was in reply to Val.  I have done some research on various courses and was horrified to find that one in particular required no previous dog experience whatsoever.  What it did require was for me to pay £25,000 to get my qualification and to buy a franchise as a "trained behaviourist".  As much as I would love to go to University and study for a degree as a single person with dependent dogs it is not an option, however I am sure that there is much that I could learn from a well prepared course.  I have always been interested in differing tourniquets and am extremely interested in learning more than the basics in things such as Ttouch and Clicker Training.  I do believe that there are many roads that lead to Rome and the better informed you are the better choices you will make when faced with different situations.

Hi helen-jane...
Sorry if you have a problem with my post, it was in reply to JG's comment which i found rather funny which you obviously didnt.
I dont remember attacking YOU or YOUR post... although i must admit on face value it does look rather strange to do a dog behaviour course through the post, but Hey! whatever, its your choice and i never passed comment ( until that last bit :) )

This is an information exchange forumn.... but i dont remember it saying anywhere that you couldnt have a laugh at the same time :-)

This is like saying that a child psychologist going to university is of no use and that they should be baby sitting for 30 years to learn about how children behave. :-O

Unfortunately, there are a lot more people that 'have had dogs all their lives' and think they know it all. These are the people giving out incorrect advice and making problems worse.

All good behaviourists and trainers will still have plenty of hands on experience. Which is why it is important to ensure one goes through veterinary referrals, to ensure that the person they are seeing is tried and trusted, since they will have a long-standing relationship with the vet and the vet will be getting feedback from their clients on the behaviourist. This is much better than getting advice from people who think they know, but they really don't and more importantly they don't know that they don't know (if that makes any sense) :-D

Patty, University usually means a number of students, sitting with a knowledgable and experienced tutor, demonstrating exactly what they are talking about.  I have no problem with that.
Books are written knowledge.  I have no problem with that either.  But to sit at home on your own and learning from the written word, which, as we see from here, can so often be misinterpreted, just doesn't make any sense to me.

My daughter is an Osteopath.  She spent 4 years in fulltime training, with much theoretical stuff to learn, but the vast majority of the learning was hands on.  They all sat in class in their underwear and practiced on each other ;) before they were allowed near real patients!! :)

Whilst it may not be in quite the same league as a brain surgeon, a dog behaviourist is in a VERY responsible position, and I really wouldn't be happy referring a grooming client with a potential dangerous dog to a person who had a qualification gained through a correspondence course! :(

PS  Helen-Jane  I have nowhere been derogatory, nor attacked.  But I am sincerely shocked.  This is an information exchange and that is exactly whay we have done.

We never stop learning, and this is one hell of a gem that I've learned today.:o  I am truly grateful that you have enlightened me!

>This is like saying that a child psychologist going to university is of no use and that they should be baby sitting for 30 years to learn about how children behave.

No, they should do both! ;) A 'child psychologist' who's never worked with real children isn't fully qualified.

>All good behaviourists and trainers will still have plenty of hands on experience.

Absolutely. Which is why the ones who only have 'paper qualifications' from a correspondence course should never be recommended.

I think it depends on the course, really, as to how valuable it is.  I'm starting a canine behaviour & trainnig course on the 24th, and I'm studying it at home - I can't afford to go to the college (in Yorkshire, 5 hrs away) because I need to stay here to earn money.  However, they insist that I can only do the course with either prior, lower-level qualifications or a lot of hands-on experience.  I've got a bit of both.  Also, I _must_ own or have guaranteed access to one dog throughout the 3 years, and I have to travel to the college for a week each summer and a couple of weekends each year for assessments and troubleshooting.  I'll be looking to work for another trainer when I'm finished as well, to really get a feel for actually running a training school/classes/behavioural therapy/whatever road I eventually go down!

I've no doubt there are some idiots out there running correspondence courses that don't ask for any practical experience, but I'd just like to point out that there are some requiring it and checking up on students regularly too.  No offence intended to anyone, just making a point!

Dear Nikita

That sounds interesting.  Do you mind me asking what course it is and which college it is being run from? 

BB is 2 or 3 years to start with the foundation degree,  2 if you are attending; think that's right  :)

Lindsay
x

Hi,

I haven't done any Dog Behaviour Courses yet but I have researched it as I intend to start a course in the very near future. I found from the information I got that the COAPE and Animal Care College courses seemed to be the two that were most popular.

I also became a Comittee member of my Dog Training Club and I help out with the classes as an "in Training instructor" and I do various other things for the Club as I'm the Social Club secretary. It's great, I love it and find it very rewarding, you get practical experience and I have made some very good friends as it's very social.

We don't get alot of dogs through with behaviour problems as most of them start as puppies but I have learnt so much from just watching the other Instructors handle various dogs and it's great to see the dogs develop.

You also do this as it would really compilment the course you decide to do.

Goodluck and have fun.

The path to becoming a dog trainer or behaviourist these days can be confusing :)

There are various ways and no one way is necessarily the best - but all should mean that a reputable trainer or behaviourist does have plenty of hands on experience. One reason I worry about various franchises which suggest one can become a behaviourist and advise people even if the student has no previous knowledge of dogs - it can all be gained in a few weeks apparently :rolleyes:  Makes me shudder!

For trainers there are also schemes such as the KC accredited scheme and so on.

Some of the correspondence courses are surprisingly very good, and I'm a critic and expect to learn; i once did the old Think Dog by John Fisher with the ACC, it was basic but yet so much more than what Joe Public would ever think of. If the tutors are good, you can learn a lot and i would support the good ones. I think most reputable training/behavioural organisatoins will put emphasis on the fact that doing a course doesn't make one ready to practise, far more is needed, but it can be a good place to jump from :)

The courses seem to be geared toward "behaviour" rather than "training" but of course both are needed. A lot of "behaviour" is academic to start with until practical application comes along later :P

"Training" is much better learnt hands on although some theory is necessary and more than useful.

Some such as COAPE will also organise specific useful training days such as a week's training a rescue dog at a rescue under supervision; the idea being that the rescue dog is more likely to get a good home as he will have learnt more obedience, manners etc during the week so it benefits student and dog :)

Adding in  some kind of canine specific sport/training etc is good for the hands on experience, and so on.

Lindsay
x

hi, I am very new to this forum, within the last 10 minutes actually. I cannot help but wonder why there is such a fuss going on re correspondance courses. I have just finished Compass's  Primary Certificate in How Dogs Learn course with an A pass, I am going on to do further courses with compass, who were recommended to me by ILA. I phoned and spoke to tutors prior to beginning the first course to ensure that I had the correct level of hands on experience and ability for the academia that these courses entail. I am 53 years of age and have lived dogs ( and other animals ) all my adult life. I ran DTC's and I rescue abused and neglected dogs, currently a deaf Gt Dane, Rhodesian ridgeback x dalmatian, grumpy westie and a pom x jack russell, these are only a few rescues from over the years. So I believe I am very experienced with dogs, my vet also thinks so, having advised that when I pass all the academia that he would recommend me to his clients as he has witnessed the work I have undertaken to rehabilitate these dogs.,I would never have dreamed of trying to become a canine behaviourist without hands on knowledge and experience and I do not think that there are too many people who are daft enough to try to do so without this experience, dogs can bite 10 times faster than we can move !!! need I say more.  I find the compass courses to be intellegent and informative and would recommend them, their qualifications are nationally recognised and some courses, I believe,  can lead into membership  of UKRCB. I plan to work alongside a behaviourist who is already a member of UKRCB and gain more knowledge from him/her to further my career. My body is getting weaker, but my mind is well on it's way to achieving the goal I want to attain.
cheers
dawn

Welcome :) .......... and well done!!

many thanks
cheers
dawn

> Well I'm amazed.  I had absolutely no idea that there were such things as a correspondence course in dog behaviour.  I would have expected the training to be hands on.  How on earth can you learn to read a dog sitting at home on your own?  Just goes to show how wrong you can be to assume! :rolleyes:
> Maybe that would begin to explain why there are so many 'behaviourists' out there who don't have a clue about dogs??!! :-(

I would say it depends on the course.  I'm just coming up to the end of the 3 yr foundation bishop burton course, and I've done it all by correspondence - but they have compulsory study weeks/weekends, requiring all the students to travel in for practical work and lectures.  So it isn't entirely academic.

I've found it invaluable, and essential for coping with Soli - without it I don't think I'd have had a hope!  I'm also just about to set up as a trainer/behaviourist.

I do agree that hands-on experience is invaulable - BUT there are that many trainers out there using outdated or even unsafe methods that I also believe a sound academic footing is of very high value so that the aspiring trainer or behaviourist knwos the theory behind dog behaviour and the various methods around.  Then, if they want to move on to get practical experience before venturing out on their own, they can identify good trainers and bad and make appropriate choices.

this post is from 2005

Closing this thread as it is very old!