I have a 20 month old labrador bitch, Jess and she isn't the bravest of dogs. I don't know why because i believe i have done all the right 'socialising' things with her taken  her to puppy socialisation and dog training classes, and will be doing agility soon. Reason for posting this is for reassurance and any tips really as i have just come back from taking her for a walk and came across a neighbour and his son, and she was a bit nervous of the son but when i gave the boy a biscuit to give her she took it fine but still a bit "stand offish".  Then the boy's father tried to encourage her to come over and she backed right off and didn't look happy at all tail tucked in. I tried to ignore it again and got the man to give her a biscuit which she refused to take.  The neighbour remarked on how timid she was and i replied she has always been a bit sensitive.  He asked how old she was and made a comment implying she shouldn't be like this.  So i was left feeling that i had an abnormal dog and was a bad dog owner as generally labs are seen "normally" as very social bouncy dogs. She had behaved like this a few times with them and wonder if she just doesn't like them! She is okay with some other people and once she gets to know people she is fine. When she does meet people i have said at times to them that she is a bit shy and to let her come to them - some people respond "Is she a rescue then?".  So all this does leave me wondering what to do next and if i am or have done something wrong for her to be like this.

I think some dogs are just good judges of character!!!
It could be just something they are wearing ...men ... too tall.....blond hair.....etc my oldest girl  whos 2y3m  a beardie and beardies love everyone but one day in the park a young boy approached her (she was on her lead) and she began to growl and got under the bench then we realised he had rollerblades  on .....that was the day we found out that she did'nt like roller blades also they both stare at my head and jump away if I have a towel around my hair ....I just ignore it.
she must be just a very sensitive dog .

~Roni

Some people can seem very intimidating to dogs whether they are sensitive or not, perhaps he looked at her too directly for comfort ;)  If he'd really known anything about dogs he'd have let her come to him in her own time and not looked at her, but glanced at the area around her (well, I know what I mean ;) ) and pretended to ignore her.  Did he 'get down' on her level or loom over her? It makes a difference to how the dog responds.  Is he loudly spoken?  Some men can be very frightening to dogs because of their deep loud voices :(   Don't let him upset you, after all you know your dog better than he does and she may well not like him for a reason.

My dalmatian bitch is like this, shes fine as long as they don't approach her. She will go over to people and sniff them but as soon as they reach out, shes away.
I wouldn't worry about it, its funny how little comments like that or dirty looks can affect you.
I have an aggressive dog who is always under my control, hes never been allowed to get close enough to a dog to attack it but I still get the comments such as should be muzzled, should be pts etc. and looks off owners who allow their dogs to charge towards him even though hes on a lead.

Don't worry you're not on your own. I agree with previous posts. You have dogs who love everyone and everything and others who are quite choosy who they like.
My youngsters litter brother was like this when he was eight months and still is with some people. There is no feature that you can pull out. He just seems to like some people and nervous of others. When he was six months he was nervous of everyone except for my friend (his owner) and me. He was nervous of everyone who visited the house so my friend put a bag of treats at the front door and anyone who came in was told to have a treat but ignore the dog. Eventually the dog would get closer and closer and take the treat. After a few minutes the dog would allow himself to be stroked then relax.
This was done on walks as well if my friend stopped to chat to someone. They were told to ignore the dog and let the dog come to him.
Six months later and he is fine with 99% of people. He still is wary now and again though and I think he always will be.
So stick at it. Your doing the right thing and your certainly not on your own.

Hi Connie,

The thing to do is enjoy your dog and don't focus on her shyness - or ignorant people's comments.  

One of my dogs is a coward too.  :-)  Rudi loves other dogs, but sometimes he gets frightened and barks like he is about to attack.  I'm sure in those cases the other dog owners think he's one of those "nasty little dogs" when in fact Rudi is all bluff and turns tail and runs at the first sign of confrontation.  He is very submissive.

Rudi loves people too, but at the smallest sign of "danger" his tail gets tucked under and he cowers.   (Food brings a quick recovery!) Danger could be a loud noise, a screechy child, a sudden movement -- any unpredictable sort of behaviour.  My husband's grandchildren were at the house a few weeks ago.   Rudi is very wary of them because they tend to screech - loudly and suddenly.   He was sitting next to one of them on a footstool, the grandchild screeched about something - Rudi peed on the footstool in fear.   He also peed on the rug when one grandchild reached down quickly to pet him.  Mind you, Rudi wants to be part of the action, so he will stay around them and he's okay if they are quiet.  

Rudi isn't rescue either.  He was a showdog that his breeder eventually had neutered because once in a while when a judge was checking for his testicles Rudi would retract one of them (failing him in the "count" for two descended testicles).  I am absolutely sure that certain judges frightened him and retracting a testicle was his reaction to fear.  

Rudi is a lovely dog, very affectionate, trustworthy, highly tolerant of my other dog (who badgers him continually to play) and I would not trade him for a "normal" dog - whatever that is.

Stacey

Hi

I have GSP who is 20 months and they too are supposed to love people and be friendly etc but mine is just like your dog. She does not like being approached by people or dogs and I too took her to puppy classes and tried to get to meet different people but she won't have strangers approach her.  If people come to the house she barks like mad and if they come in I give them a treat to give her and she is ok but outside she won't take anything from complete strangers. I have recently got her to take treats from the neighbouring children when we've been outside and that was really pleasing.  Once she knows you she is your friend for life and because she has had to allow so many teenage boys into the house she is better with them outside than any other group.  I don't worry about it now, sometimes she might get near someone for a sniff and that's about it and if people want to stroke her and she backs off (always does) I just think nevermind eh?  As I said I don't worry about it now and I don't view her as timid or a coward but as cautious, something we actually reinforce in our children when approached by strangers.  So now I look on the positive side and think that she would be a hard dog to pinch wouldn't she?

Dont worry one of my labs is very much the same. I have worked out that she is very sensitive to body language. If some one bends over her too much, makes too much eye contact or goes to touch the back of her head when she dosent expect it and she will back off. It really isnt normally and issue, Im just aware that it happens and try not to put her under too much pressure.

Hi Connie.  Lots of good answers up there, or down there, I've not figured out how posts land where they do.  Sounds just like my Lab, Jet.  Jet was always better with women, or with people who had a dog with them, but seems like the same timidity which resolves on its own if she is allowed to approach the person on her own volition.  Cats are often like that, you have to let them approach the person when they want to, not when the person wants it.  I think Jet could have learned this from our cats, LOL.

Agility was suggested to us as a way to build confidence.  We did agility for three years, even won some ribbons, and by age six I noticed that Jet was much better with strangers.  Whether it was due to the agility or she just grew out of it we'll never know.

Jet (now 12.5) is happy and friendly with people she knows and playful with dogs she knows.  I've decided she is just an atypical Lab who does not like strangers petting her on the head or offering her food.  If she was a human child that is exactly what you'd want.  It seems to me you are doing everything right and not forcing Jess is better for her than making her into a dog she is not.

I have to laugh at your story of the boy and his father.  The same thing happened to us this winter.  While we were cross country skiing we met friends on snowshoes.  Friends Jet had never met before.  The more the man tried to get her to come to him the further away she moved from him.  I think he was rather miffed as "dogs usually like" him.  Instead Jet went to the woman who was making no effort to touch her, talk to her or even really look at her.  Maybe not the best judgement on Jet's part but that's where I come in.

I dont know what lines your lab is from, but I feel more and more labs are getting like this, particularly from field trial breeding. I'd doubt its anything you've done wrong. Its a bit of a gripe of mine with some of the working lines, as to me the biggest attribute of the breed is the 'bomb-proof' temperament that most have.

The down-side to some field trial breeding is that studs are selected on the back of their field trial wins, or the reputation of their owner rather than any familiarity with the dog. Many of these dogs only really exist within a training and working environment, and are rarely exposed to the kind of day-to-day activities and experiences that the average pet would face.

Thanks for all the great emails and all your experiences. A colleague at work said to me why shouldn't a dog dislike someone just like us humans do sometimes.  She may have picked up something from him. The man had a beard and a bald head - i always think he looks similar to the girl on the old test card!  However she is fine with other men with beards.  With regards to Jess's lines i have her 5 generation pedigree.  How would i find out about lines?

Connie,

If you'd like to pm me the names of the dogs in the first 3 or 4 generations of the pedigree I'll let you know what type of lines they are.

Anything with FTCh &r FTW will be working/trialling and anything with Ch & ShCh will be show lines.

I can empathise with this one. FOr some reason all my dogs have been a little bit  like this at some stage, despite me doing all the right things, trainng lessons from puppies, socialising etc, but i truely believe that some dogs are just naturally shy and sensitive, just like people. Interestingly enough my eldest dog, meg the collie was actually very bad with people when she was younger, she had a particular fear of men and used to bark ferociously at every one we met from about a year onwards. I just continued to socialise her gradually, but never pushed her and at some point she did get better. SHe is now 3 and 1/2 and loves people to bits, infact she will run up to anyone we meet to get them to throw her ball if i don't stop her. She also did agility from the age of 18 months and this summer started cometitiions is agility and flyball and her confidence has grown without me realising. I have a lovely photo of her and a flyball team mate (very tall male - which she would be terrified of before) with meg on her back on his lap having cuddles. She is now in a demo team too where she has to be approached by kids (something else that used to terrify her, and she is fine. So i think it takes time. My retriever is also very similar, she gets easily upset by people looming and eye contact and occaisionalyl appeared very aggressive, but just recently i have noticed that she is alot better with people, again, i think it is the combination of growing up - she turned 2 in april and the effects of gradual socilisation. Don't feel depressed, its nothing you've done but she will probably imorve as she grows, shes still young. You have the same problem as me as goldies and labs are typically thought to adore people which means all too often people tend to come on too strong. Yet another effect of sereotyping! ;-)

Hi Havoc

Guess from what you are saying that Jess is from working/trialling lines.  Anyway this is off her pedigree certificate parents through to great grandparents

01 - Speycast Echo Olderhill
02 - Nylacy Megan

03 - FT Ch Willowyck Lyn
04 - Speycast Falcon
05 - Point Blank Olderhill
06 - Venture Factor

07 - Searchins Beaver
08 - FT Ch Willowyck Favour
09 - FT ch Birdbrook Teak
10 - Dancing Dee of Speycast
11 - Black Magic Soldier
12 - Heath Down Stroller
13 - Olderhill Gane Behemoth
14 - Luck Venture

Thanks again.

HI Connie

It would appear to me that you have done nothing wrong with your dog.  Like people dogs can be shy and reserved - that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them.  My Bracco doesn't like people coming up to her straight on - and she is anything but shy!  I think somebody else said that dogs can read body language and I think that is quite correct.  I would do just as you have been doing ie get people to stay back and let your dog go to them.  If people are derogatory just ignore them.  What do they know?!!!!

Havoc, forgive me if I am wrong but I always thought that the working type labs were steadier than the show type.  The reason being that an essential attribute of working dogs is temperament and intelligence.  If what you say is true, what has been happening to labradors?  I see lots of working type labs - mostly in pet homes which is a real gripe of mine - and none seem nervous etc.,  Could it not be that labs are being bred by inexperienced people who are not sure how to breed properly.  Do you think this could be causing the problem?  I know that my working cocker breeder is a field trial specialist.  He has cockers, springers and labs and his are all fabulous - but he is very experienced.  Perhaps its the newer people that are trying to get in on the act.  Another thing I see quite frequently is the mixture of show/working type labs and this is becoming more common.  I know somebody who bred this way and she kept one of the chocolate labs (so she could have one of each colour!).  He has a terrible temperament and is always attacking puppies.  Never attacks my 4, I hasten to add.  Let me know what you think.  I'd be interested to find out.

Kind regards
Annie

Annie,

I can only go by my experience, but the particularly shy and nervy individuals are coming from trialling breeding. However, I dont really have sufficient contact with show-bred labs to comment on them. It is by no means typical of trialling labs, but does seem to be increasing.

My thoughts for some of the contributory factors are :
1. Triallers often select breeding stock purely on the basis of its trial success rather than the dog as a whole. No thought is given to the suitability for an 'average family home'.
2. Fashionable sires. There are some stud dogs used very regularly that seem to throw progeny that are regularly on the soft side.
3. Many triallers prefer to run dogs rather than bitches, as they dont lose time for seasons and the potential financial return from a well-used stud dog is very high. However, for a dog to be regularly successful in competition a more soft, compliant nature helps greatly (more of a bitch temperament). When 'soft dogs' are bred to, generation after generation, I feel the breed will become more predisposed to nervousness and sensitivity.
4. The standard of long-distance handling is becoming greater and greater in trials. Once again, this favours the softer natured dog that remains compliant when being handled 200 yards from its handler in extremely tempting situations.

I feel that this combination of factors over successive generations will lead to more and more labs that become excessively nervous & sensitive. The majority continue to have excellent, confident temperaments, but I do feel that the 'average' is moving in a more sensitive direction.

With regard to a show/working mix, I feel that this has the potential to create either the best and worst of both worlds. If the breeding is just a result of using a convenient stud dog and bitch then the results are likely to be dissapointing. However, a skillful blend of lines can create a bright, biddable dog that does not have the excesses of the show dog, but still retains some substance and a pleasing appearance.

HI Havoc

I am not an expert on labs by any means but what you describe is so sad.  I suppose it happens in every walk of life though.  I know that my Jack's breeder is superb.  Simplistically, if he has a sensitive dog he will mate her with a dog that is a bit wild in order to gain a steady dog.  I know there is more to it than that but I have to say I have a wonderful working cocker from that very method.  He's got a field trial champ cocker that he will be mating in the Spring of next year and I am sorely tempted but I'm training my Bracco up for work at the moment and don't think I'll have the time.

Annie

Havoc

Any news re Lines, as listed some of her relatives?

Hello Connie, one of my Labs was like this, although the other one I had at the time loved and greeted everyone like a long lost friend, including people he'd seen five minutes ago.

With the timid one, it was eye contact that made her worse.  Sometimes they were perfectly nice people (it was definitely not a case of the dog knowing best etc.) who just didn't know how to approach dogs.  However, when she was approached by, for want of a better word, "country" people who speak to you for a while then show a bit of interest in the dog you've got with you, she adored them.  Over the time that I had her (she came to me as a 4 year old) I worked on keeping her out of situations she couldn't cope with, preventing unwanted advances and rewarding good behaviour - all things that have been suggested already - and the nervous behaviour diminished but was always there.

Havoc, I totally agree. I think some people want very reactive, fast dogs for trialling and the side effect of this is that they are reactive in all respects.  I managed to find out about the breeding of the dog above and found that her sire was a working dog.

Connie,
Jess's sire is bred from some quality working lines. FTCh Willowyck Lyn and FTCh Birdbrook Teak are from famous trialling kennels, and are not lines that I would expect nervousness to come from. I have a great-grandaughter of Teak that I bred myself, after using  FTCh Birdbrook Greg as a stud on one of my bitches. She is soft, but in no way nervous.

I cant really tell the lines from Jess's dam, as they are not FTChs, and most have no affix, although I'd guess that they would be from working or pet lines.

Havoc

Thanks for doing that.  I sometimes wonder how the rest of brothers and sisters are doing - there were 6 in the litter she came from. I don't think Jess is too nervous .....but sensitive!  Jess too is a soft dog and will often come over and sit back and put a paws up in front to be tickled.  In many respects i am glad she is cautious with strangers especially as more dogs seem to be stolen these days.  Also i think may pick some signals from me and maybe unwittingly over react as she is my first dog. Agility went well although need to work on trying to get her to jump on a low level table, A frame (refused to climb up it) and stay down for more than 5 seconds! 

thanks

Connie