Hi all, please help once again, my bitch is 1 day overdue she has milk already, started showing signs of giving birth yesterday, frantic digging, heavy breathing, shivers, eyes glazed but then she stopped. I took her to the vets today, had a blood test done, and her progetrogen levels are v low less than 2 indicating a c section, this is her second litter no problems first time, she is very large though this time, a lot of pups I think. Vet suggests no problems at the moment both mum and pups are healthy active and not showing signs of stress her temp is normal. I am very worried about having a c section done, never had to have one for my dogs before? what are the risks? should I leave her another 24 hours and see ?

I don't know anything about c-sections in dogs but I do know that it's always better to plan surgery than for it to be an emergency.

Good luck and I hope everything works out well for your bitch and her pups.

Fiona
x x x

If a C section is needed try not to worry too much. Over the years we have had 3 of them and the only time things went wrong was that I wasn't careful enough introducing the puppies to the bitch and she killed one. It was not her fault, she is a doting mum, but was still under the influence of the drugs. She had been feeding them in the vets surgery so I thought "she knew what was happening" but must have forgotten she had had them by the time she got home. The C section puppies we have had have been fine as a rule and the bitches have never minded feeding/looking after them and the "scar" has always healed well with only a few drops of blood lost from it in the first few hours after surgery. The bitches are usually up and about and eating well within 24 hours. You have to check that she can wee ok, and I lift them out of their whelping box to go walkies rather than expect her to jump out, for the first few days. By the time it is time to have her stitches out she will be behaving perfectly normally and by day 3 or 4 after whelping you will be amazed that she has had a c-section at all. The first 24 hours you have to be careful she doesn't lie on them as the will be groggy, and the pups can be a bit sleepy too, so may not squeal much if they are trapped. It is important to get as much fluid down her as possible in the 24 hours after the surgery. Dont worry too much about food, its fluids she needs to begin with. I add a dessert spoon of glucose to each half pint of water which will give her some energy without her having to digest anything. Dont feed her til she is properly "round" even if its up to 12 hours afterwards. Ask the vet to give her a calcium injection before you leave the surgery and he should also give a pain killing injection and anti-biotics to give by nouth for min 5 days. If this were my bitch I would have the C section done asap as long as you are 100% sure of her date of mating. it sounds to me as if she has inertia which is not uncommon in a large litter - she uterus is so stretched already it may not be able to contract. I would not breed again from a bitch with primary interia, if thats what it is. we had to have a c section once when the only two puppies entered the birth canal together, one was facing one way and one the other way, they were totally wedged. This bitch went on to have a normal delivery next time. I hope you have better luck with this litter and have a good supply of parvocide. Did the bitch have a parvo jab within the last few months - if she has - and your last problem was parvo, this should keep the puppies safe if you have the environment clear of it and the pups have a parvo jab at 6 weeks. good luck.

Any news?

Sweep x

Hi,
We have had lot of C-sections done and the majority of the time I have been pleased with them. Lovely healthy pups and a happy mum.
Only time I had a problem was when our STUPID Vet (new one now) left a puppy behind by mistake. Of course the pup was dead and if the bitch hadnt passed it of her own accord (thank God) she would have died.
But since then we have a new Vet and our C-sections have all been OK.
Good Luck and try not to worry.

Hi all, well after another false start of labour monday and a lot of vomitting from mum she had a c section Tuesday at 11.00 am, I was so worried but everything was fine 8 PUPPIES , a lot for a westie, the placenta had just started to come away so we couldn't have left it any longer, mum is doing fine though, she has lots of milk and is feeding them all by her self. They are all big puppies smallest 187g and biggest 216g again a good size for a westie, all seem very healthy too!! The car ride home was very noisy! but all is quiet now

Congratulations! Great that mum's doing well and all those lovely puppies.
LynnT

Westie lover thanks for your advice, mum has recently had a booster in April so touch wood we can keep parvo at bay. All puppies have a good suckle too so should have lots of mums antbodies, I forgot to mention 5 girls 3 boys, her first litter was 4 boys 1 girl , so I think she's making up for the lack of girls last time! All my other bitch's have had equal sex litters, strange isn't it? I thought the stud decided the sex and the bitch the numbers. Do you know what the largest recorded westie litter is?

All puppies have lost a lot of weight 30 -40g each, this is much greater than any previous litters usually up to 20g max loss, is this normal for a c section or should I be feeding them extra? All puppies are feeding well and look happy and content hardly any squeaks unless stuck or lost! Don't want to interefer much as 8 is a lot to hand feed, any suggestions, I have bottles sterilised ready!
p.s. I did feed them all twice yesterday on return home, till mum came round a bit and got some milk in.

One of my pups had difficulty feeding and went from 349gm birth weight to 275gms! I just supplemented him and he has grown into a lovely pup. I wouldnt worry too much with a 20gm loss as I had that with my terrier babes but I would check them again in the evening to make sure they have stayed the same or put on weight.

If the pups are feeding well, look happy and content and are quiet then I wouldn't worry at all. As long as their tummies look round and full when they have fed then they are doing ok.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Their tummy's don't look very full, mum has milk but not loads and loads, I have had to bottle feed them all, and they are still losing weight, but not as much now, but it's a catch 22 situation the more I bottle feed the more mum's milk is going to be low I guess, and I havn't really got the time to bottle feed full time 8 pups,( if I have to though I will.) Mum is being very good, won't leave them at all , I have to remove her to take her out for 5 mins.Then she has a quick wee and wants to go back in.

Congrats on the pups fingers crossed all continues to be well.

Pam with her 2 Westies

hi, the bitch could be dehydrated after losing so much fluid during surgery, which may account for a poor milk supply. Are you giving her drinks to her in her bed every 2 -3 hours? Dont expect her to get out of her bed voluntarily for a couple of days and make sure she has done her business before you attempt to feed /water her. Although milk is not that advisable as it may make her loose, if mine wont drink enough glucose water I dilute milk with 75% water and they seem to drink loads of that without any problem. If she gets loose get some Protexin Pro kolin from the vets- its miraculous stuff. I would soak all her food in chicken broth, so it is quite wet and sloppy as this will get more fluid into her. I would not start supplementig unless puppy is obviously failing as you may inhibit the milk supply. Dont forget the puppies have had a big shock as well as the bitch, being delivered the way they were. Is she licking them to help them wee and poo, if she is not then they wont feed as well as they might, and you will have to stimulate them with damp cotton wool. Good luck.

my very first litter was a ceasar delivery, the bitch went in dripping milk, had her ceasar and came out practically dry,,the pups where like tubes for a couple of days, so i began to supplement them ,poor things nearly sucked the bottles inside out, but as i started to feed each i put the rest on the dam, within 5 days her milk flooded back, the pups then went into tantrums if i tried a bottle, i thought it was amazing to see them working it out they where ok now with the dam and could i please take the bottle away, ---my freinds just going through the same thing, hers needed a ceasar and the bitch is struggling to feed them , theyve refused to be topped up though,
im pleased you had yours done when you did, i lost 3 huge pups from my last one and in hindsight wished id asked for a ceAsaer....good luck with them :D

Hi all just back from the vets, vet confimed all are doing well but mum has very little milk as her glands are swolllen, it looks like she has more than she really has,pups are still losing weight except one fatty who I think is taking all her milk, so more food for mum and more bottles for pups till more milk appears, they have all taken to the bottle well though which is good, it's not a struggle to feed them and mum doesn't mind. the vet seems to think I will need to top them up till weaning as it is a very big litter. At least mum can feed them at night as all can suckle well from mum, so good news really.:D :D

WW,

Good news. I am pleased for you. I have followed afew breeders and their stories and I htink no matter how often or how experienced it is quite worrying..

Good luck

Pam

HI, glad things are ok. Was she prescribed anti-biotics to give after the C section? If her glands are up it sounds like she should be if she's not already? I have everything crossed for you.

Pleased to hear the news that pups are improving. If you are feeding for so long then it may be worth getting a human bottle (if you arent already using one) as they get older as they seem to be able to take more that way!

WL
They have given her an injection for antibiotics Tuesday after op and this morning, she goes back to vets saturday, vet said Angel is fine and doesn't want to give too many drugs while nursing pups, i did suggest as you said antbiotics by mouth to take home, but he never really answered the question directly. The chicken broth works a treat, she's drinking much more now, never had a problem feeding her though, as she is getting nice hand fed tit bits constantly. I've also found out after last night that she is not really cleaning bottoms enough, wow it's unbelievble how much comes out of a small pup, messy job but rather amusing, the cotton wool works instantly. It also has surprised me how much better they are suckling now, fed them three times each today and they are still never off mum suckling. i think they are still very hungry!!!!

I have always used baby bottles rather than pet ones as they never seem to work properly, however I have had to resort back to pet bottles for the time being cos I can't find any teats small enough!! Lets hope they start putting on weight now so I can get them on to baby bottles or better still mum wll get loads of milk soon fingers crossed, but it's lovely to have 8 very healthy, happy quiet content pups, I hope it stays that way

i add melted honey to the bottles, they loved it, just an idea!

Honey can contain something (I think it's a bacteria) and is not recommended for babies, so I wouldn't have thought is was ideal for puppies either, especially ones that don't have full benefit of feeding from Mum :-(

oops! id never heard that before, id always heard it was good for young and ailing --better not chance it then, although mine all had it and many others i know use it, but better safe than sorry :(

Ive always used honey too,personally I think a bit of bacteria is good for you in this clinical age,honey is as old as the hills and is brilliant coupled with benlyn for kennel cough.
Though best to steer clear with pups if your not sure

Hi, thats great news, if they are feeding loads and quiet in between and mum is hungry and happy - who could ask for more. You must be so relieved, and 8 puppies - phew. I bought a puppy once from a litter of nine, but I haven't heard of more live puppies in a westie litter, though there may well be. I have had 8 once and one did not make it, but never more than that. You often see litters of 9 or more in the BRS, but there is no guarantee that they really are one litter!! they usually seem to be registered by those who breed dozens of litters a year, so I'm a bit suspicious of those. Hope all continues well.

Pups are racing ahead now, some have now gone well past birth weight, mind you I am feeding them 6 bottles a day, plus they are never off mum feeding, so they must be v v hungry, got really fat bellies now too:p :p :d, mum has been given all clear now too, just her stiches to come out on Friday, and she now has pleanty of milk!!!
Thanks again everyone, yes it is always worrying, and always a learning game, I wouldn't class myself as an experienced breeder yet though, but I hope to get there soon. I definately won't hesitate next time, as we nearly lost pups this time through delay.

Excellent news! :D

I was given the hint by Aussie friends that Manuka honey was very good for helping to bring on your tiniest pups along with an extra bottle, works everytime for them... Honey is known as a natural antiseptic and used in homeopathic cases for some pollen related allergies in dogs.

Lily

Botulism in Honey

I think I'll leave the honey alone thankyou, tried a bit of sorb vit be though, that seems to work ok.

Mum got herself into a bit of bother yesterday, she tried (on a lead) to chase a cat, failed miserably and popped open her stiches she was dripping with blood and had fatty lumps popping out of her
So back to the vets after a horrible night without sleep, hand feeding puppies and nursing mum, they put her back to sleep and stiched her up again, back to vets again tomorrow, mum not happy vomitting and squits! yuk! I thought everything was going too well, PUPS are big and happy though.

She will never learn, not to chase cats, any advice on how to stop her? Is it possible?, I have 5 westies and only three like to chase cats, but thats more than enough .