Me and my partner have an entire male JRT X (Spike), and about two months ago we adopted a similar female JRT X (Lucky), we knew she had not been speyed, and took her straight to the Vet for some info about getting her done. We had no intention of breeding from them as they are not pedigrees, and neither me nor my partner have any breeding experience. We were told that from her physical state and the fact that her vagina was still protruding, that must have recently had her first heat cycle. So we were informed on the vet's advice not to have her speyed for atleast another 6 weeks.

However, exactly a month later she came into heat. Luckily my partner and I had spent several hours trawling through material on the net to get clued up about heat cycles just incase it should happen and Spike had never been able to mount his fluffy toy in the correct way, and so we thought me were safe. He made several attempts to mount our girl's head, with the end results always being him running away with a slightly chewed groin, due to his unwelcome advances.

But, we are now almost certain that she is pregnant. She started her heat cycle on the 13th of august, stopped bleeding on the 22nd of august. So technically 28 days later would mean that she finished her cycle on the 10th of september.

However we fear that the date of conception may have been the 25th of august, as this was the only day that they were left alone. We did put them in separate rooms, but when we got back they were together in the living room! So that would put her at 18 days into her possible pregnancy.

She has become overly protective of a tiny toy dog (out of a Mc Donalds happy meal!!!!) and won't let Spike anywhere near it. Her appetite has increased to the point of fighting with Spike to get at his dinner. She also seems to be getting tired much more easily than she used to, and sleeps for long portions of the day, including immediately after waking up first thhing in the morning, she simply relocates from her bad to a big brown beanbag in our living room. Her nipples have stayed erect, and she has two small lumps beneath her bottom two nipples, their only the size of a thumbnail. Could they be possible pups? or are they just swollen milk ducts?

We understand the risks involved, and the inevitable financial and time commitments, but we are still very nervous. Any information anyone could give us would be hugely helpful. For instance, what should we be looking for as a sign of pregnancy? Are there any known risks of breeding X-breeds? Does breeding Jack Russels differ from other species? etc.

Many Thanks
Sophie

being protective of a stuffed toy would sujest to me a phantom pregnancy,ide take the toy away from her incase thats wat it is! :) could you not take her the vet,as hede he able to let you know if she is or isnt pregnant.if she isnt pregnant youve had a lucky escape!
keep us updated! :)

Has anyone noticed the poster has said she has just had her first heat cycle. :-( :-(

Blue to be fair the poster said she'd only had the bitch for 2 months and so she cannot know if this was her first season or not as she was clearly adult when acquired, the vet did guess she'd recently had one.

Hi Goldmali, :-)

Unless I am completely on another planet this week can you please tell me where it clearly says she is an adult. All I can clearly see is that she has just had her first cycle.  I don't see any mention of age whatsoever. Seeing as bitches have their first season normally between 6-10 months especially a small dog rightly or wrongly that is how I read the post and how I based my advice.

Taking the age out of it all together the bitch can be spayed at this stage and the vet should have told her.

BFN Pam

>Unless I am completely on another planet this week can you please tell me where it clearly says she is an adult. >All I can clearly see is that she has just had her first cycle.  I don't see any mention of age whatsoever.

She said she's around 18 months now and was 14 months when acquired. :)

Hi Goldmali,

That is in her second post which is the reply to mine NOT the first one. The first one only says she has had her first season. :-)

Thanks though , I didn't think I was going mad and had read the post correctly.

No offence intended Blue, I probably read the thread when it had already been posted about the age -or I just remember wrong. :)

:-)

TO BLUE    why did you pick up and slate the poster for writing  heat cycle     as you probably know in scotland we say a dog comes into heat but in england everyone says season    maybe the poster was just using 2 words everyone would know   dont think there was any need for that trying to make a poster look stupid not very bright on your part

Dog mad, that wasn't what Blue was implying at all. She was saddened that a bitch was allowed to be mated on 'reportedly' her first heat/season/cycle/whatever. Not the way it was worded.

However, it appears that it probably wasn't the bitch's first season if she was an adult - I've no idea how a vet would be able to tell which season had just finished, or if (as seems to be the case here) one was brewing ...

Thanks JG, I am still laughing :-)  sorry but this has to be the best one yet.

MORK CALLING MINDY, MORK CALLING MINDY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D

What are you talking about??  goodness me, talking about getting a post wrong , VERY WRONG and jumping in with 2 feet  ;-)  this has to be the worse one I have seen yet !!!!!! 

You are way off track here. Did you actually read the thread?  LOL

I don't care what people call it and would NEVER  EVER pick someone up or single someone out for their terminology.   Where have I commented on what word someone has used? 

I am speechless LOL

BTW Personal attacks are not permitted on this forum and from someone who is reasonably well educated I take,

being called " not very bright " as a personal attack. 

Hi being over protective of a fluffy toy could mean she is having a phantom pregnancy, but it may not like the previous poster said take the soft toy away from her. Then book her into your vets for a check up. your vet could spay her now and if there is any puppies abort them( not nice i know) but its better than a unwanted litter and also you will be sure another accident wont happen.good luck

I cant honestly believe what I am reading. Sorry to be so blunt , Forget the " give us advice please on what to look for "

You have not once mentioned the fact that this little bitch is only a puppy, you could kill a young puppy letting her have a litter . If you understand the  risks involved why would you let it continue?

My advice for the dogs sake is take her and have her spade now.

To let that litter continue is nothing but cruel.

I am sorry to be blunt but anyone telling you different is kidding you on IMHO.  She is a baby forgetting that she is a cross.

she's not a puppy herself, she's actually coming up to 18 months old, I just wanted some general advice, and to be honest was hoping for less sarky responses.  We genuinely have very little knowledge of this, and were operating under what our VET advised us to do. We are aware of abortions, but didn't realise the bitch could be spayed at the same time. And we wanted to be sure if she was pregnant, before taking any large risks. We believed that asking other breeders for information would be easiest as our Vet already told us that things like ultrasounds/bloodtests wouldn't show anything definitive until atleast 30 days into the pregnancy, and even then could be false. We just wanted to know if the behaviour she has been exhibiting would suggest she is pregnant, and if so what to look out for next.

Spaying is generally carried out halfway between seasons - ie 12 weeks after the start of a season.   In the circumstances that you describe, I think you would be best advised to have her spayed now: she can be spayed and, should she have mated with your other dog (and in the circumstances, I would think that they may well have done) it would be less distressing for her, and you, to have the pregnancy terminated by the spaying.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but I think that this would be the best way of dealing with the situation - to put her through a pregnancy, and bring yet more cross-bred pups into a world full of them - would be far more distressing.

I hope you don't find this answer too sarcastic - its as positive as I can make it.

Margot

Why is it when people are told something they don't want to hear the information is called

"was hoping for less sarky responses."

My advice is honest and the right course of action for your bitch. Your post said clearly it was her first heat , even if it isn't I would still have her spayed.  We have millions of crosses all over the UK who can't find homes that are being put to sleep in their tens every single day in the UK.

I am telling you the 100% truth.  You can't always get the replies you want but believe me when I outline the problems ahead.

Your vet should have told you she could be spayed at this stage.

I am sorry for seeming negative but my partner and I are worried about our dog, and simply want to do what is best for her, and i said:

"We were told that from her physical state and the fact that her vagina was still protruding, that must have RECENTLY had her first heat cycle. So we were informed on the vet's advice not to have her speyed for ATLEAST another 6 weeks."

Therefore she had already HAD her first cycle, thus this cycle would have been her second. We didn't adopt her as a puppy, but as a 14 month old in need of a new home!

I have had dogs all my life but never a bitch, this is new territory for me, and I am sorry if my inexperience angers some of you. I was simply asking for help. I have not only seen an abortion performed on a bitch but assisted in the operation and it is horrific. I just wanted to be sure she was pregnant and get the best advice i could before rushing her to the Vet. I don't know what behaviours to be on the lookout for and thought that "asking the experts" would be my best source of info. Especially as my Vet has said little can be done except chart her temperature.

Hi pinkneonmartini,

I can understand your anxiety 100% and my advice although straight to the point was based on your opening post.

Appoliges if you thought I was being very hard on you but to be honest sometimes dancing around the trust and best advice in what I would say a urgent situation doesn't help either.

I do hope you think long and hard BUT quickly as spaying her now would be the best option.  Unless you are happy to rear the litter. Homes are hard to find and often people are left with puppies from cross litters.   not always but sometimes puppies that are cheap can and are often less regarded by the new owners so you have to do very careful selecting of these owners. ( sorry I know that sounds awful but it is true.)

Let us know what you decide.  :-)

No one is being nasty nor deriding you being a novice bitch owner

What your vet thought was the sign of a season that had gone past was probably a sign of a season to come.

To be honest your best course of action at this early stage of her possible pregancy is to have her spayed & the litter if there are puppies removed. Although your bitch is 18 months old she is still too young to have a litter IMHO.

Rescues are full of cross bred dogs & if you allow your bitch to have puppies ypu risk adding to them. Pregnancy in bitches is the same as in humans the most dangerous time of a females life, you run the risk of losing your bitch during whelping or during pregnancy

Please think very carefully before you decide what to do, which is more important to you, your bitch or any puppies she might be having ?

Hi - nobody's being sarky to you, just trying to advise.

I'm not sure how your vet could tell that 'her first' season had just finished, because the average age for a first season is 6 months of age - if she was 14 months when you got her I would have thought she'd either have finished or been brewing her second, or even third. Her vulva would be swollen in both cases.

The soonest way to tell whether she's pregnant is to have her ultrasound scanned at about a month, though scans can be unreliable. Other than that it's 'wait and see', I'm afraid. Charting temperature is usually done in the last week or so of pregnancy to try to determine when whelping will take place, not to discover whether or not she's pregnant. I'm afraid what you say doesn't fill me with confidence about your vet. :(

She could be having a phantom pregnancy - these are very common and a bitch doesn't have to be mated to have one. If so, give her lots of exercise and cut down on her protein levels. Remove all cuddly toys and don't let her brood.

There would not be an abortion as such the act of spaying her (removing the uterus and it's contents if any would end any pregnancy).

Hi Sophie
Accidents do happen and as I read it you had kept the dogs separate but the dog somehow managed to get out. As others have said the bitch can be spayed now and that is probably the kindest in many ways, and the sooner the better.

At just 18 days into a possible pregnancy, it is virtually impossible to tell if a bitch is pregnant or not. The teats don't usually swell up until after 3-4 weeks. I personally don't think her behaviour with the toy is a phantom, because it's too early for a phantom pregnancy to occur -well in my experience anyway. You wouldn't be able to see puppies because after just 18 days they'd be so tiny. Her behaviour does suggest she may be pregnant, as with some bitches you do notice a difference after about 2 weeks. I'd get her to the vet asap.

Any help on the nipple issue???

These lumps are about the same size as a Cadbury's Mini Egg, and nestled below her nipples, but what are they????

Hi pink  Sorry you have had these negative replies, I understand that you came and posted for help and advice as i said in a earlier post make a appointement at your vets and discuss the options with him.you can still have her spayed and if there are any puppies let the vet remove them.Accidents do happen and having a dog and a bitch is sometimes a nightmare when we cant seperate them.

hi pink i have sent u a personal message to avoid a dispute

The pink nipples COULD be a sign of a phantom pregnancy;  equally they COULD be the sign of a pregnancy.   For your own peace of mind, take her to the vets.

Margot

Charting her temperature is only something that breeders do in the last two weeks of pregnancy as a drop in her temperature is a sign of impeding birth!

Unless you actually WANT any puppies, please, take her to the vets NOW.  I find it hard to believe that a vet is actively encouraging you to continue with a pregnancy - if this is the case you might be better advised to find another vet.

Margot

I meant to add to my previous post that perhaps you ought to read The Book of the Bitch, by Gwen Bailey - its available on Amazon - which might answer some of your questions.

Regards
Margot

My Book of the Bitch isn't by Gwen Bailey?!

Sorry - senior moment coincided with Blonde Moment - Gwen Bailey wrote The Perfect Puppy - forgotten who wrote Book of the Bitch - but I recommend it strongly!!! :D :D

Margot

J.M. Evans & Kay White. :) I can't recommend it highly enough either. :)

Hi Polly, :-)

Can you point out the negative replies :-) Seeing as I am the one who has been blunt and honeslt with Pink I am hopefully wrong in assuming you mean mine.

It is ok joining in a thread that is a day or two old and joining in but advice that is asked for urgently and based on the opening post is all you can give advice on.

I'll bow out of this now but do hope the poster take the advice given seriously.

I am sorry but in my eyes this is serious and if it were me be glad of someone not to mince their words.

Blue - I think that most of us are "singing from the same song sheet" as regards this post - Pink came on here asking for URGENT help, and most of us have given positive advice - it may not be what she was hoping to hear - but it had to be said!

I hope the private PMs are not glossing over the downside to having an unplanned litter of mongrels to a young bitch belonging to owners who have never experienced whelpings.

Margot

I do to Margot , I really do.

and no lokis mom the PM's are not what u think.i am experienced in whelping but id rather send  a PM than get pin pointed by some for what i say to her.

Hi Pocahontas1,

For someone experienced in whelping you didn't seem to know much when your own litter was born just a few weeks ago and had NO emergency supplies or strategies in place :rolleyes:  You didn't even have a whelping box ......

I've just been reading this thread for the first time and Loki's Mum, Blue and several others have not only given sound and patient advice but responded to the post in the manner to which it is titled.  

I think that was Pocahontas1's 1st litter Teri.  

pocahontas1 09.09.05 13:11 BST  [Misc] [Reply]  

hi guest.my bitch gave birth to ten ******** pups 4weeks ago now it was a first for both of us.congratulations on your litter.my dog never had a whelping box she managed very well without crushing them.

I hope that the poster realises that!:(  Unfortunately, when you look for advice on the internet, you have no idea (without research) what experience the people giving advice have, or not, as the case maybe! :o

Thought it rang a bell Val ;)   Now't as strange as some folk :rolleyes:

As you say, hopefully the OP realises what's what :(

val,u have to start somewhere and when uve read and read and studied like i have thats when u can give advice so let me ask how did u start because dont knock me when evryone is in the same boat and has to start somewhere.this is exactly the reason why i have pm'd pink because of the sarky comments.at the end of the day i never said i was an expert but this is how u become one!

Pocahontas,

>read and read and studied like i have thats when u can give advice <

I am not being rude at all but reading books alone doesn't mean a thing honestly. Yes of course it helps and most of us love reading and learning.

I have had a few litters now but am still terrified when the time comes and always like to have someone at the end of the phone who I regards as experienced still for some support. 

EXPERIENCE comes from just that real Experience.  To be honest if this is your first litter you haven't even had the experience of rehoming puppies , that is an experience of it's own. Rehoming cross bred puppies is not an easy challenge , just like poorly bred ones etc.

Me personally , I regard someone as an experienced breeder when they have done at the very LEAST 6 litters and even at that they vary so much from one to the other.

I have had 4 litters , every single one different beyond belief. :-)

blue i understand that but my bitch knew what she was doing she done everythink herself and to be honest i thought it was going to be more hard work that what it was but its been easy.i would rather have puppies than look after children.but i know when the time comes again i wont be scared as there was no need to.im confiedent that when the time comes i'll know what im doing but everyone is different but ive grew up with dogs all my life but this is my very own first litter i have grew up with other dogs having litters.

>but i know when the time comes again i wont be scared as there was no need to.

Good grief! I'm sorry, and I don't mean to be rude, but if you'd even done all the reading you should you'd be aware of all the hundreds of things that can go wrong unexpectedly, and you'd be scared. With experience as well as the reading you'd realise just how likely these situations are, and would be even more terrified.

You were very lucky the first time, but there's no guarantee that'll be the case again. Complacency such as yours leads to disaster. It's the equivalent of someone who's read books about driving trying to teach someone else to actually do it.

It's called the confidence of ignorance JG!! ;)  More common than common sense these days, I'm afraid! :rolleyes:

The blind leading the blind. :(

a message for val,im not ignorant and i dont have the confidence of ignorance as u call it.u dont even know me you just read the posts.at the end of the day im voicing my advice and my opinion and i never put people down for what they say.

i never put people down for what they say
Looks to me as though that exactly what you are trying to do! :)

I called your comments (not you, you understand?) 'the confidence of ignorance' because after just one litter, you appear to be now prepared to encourage the rest of the world that dog breeding is easy and there is nothing to be worried about!  I don't consider that to be a responsible attitude.  My dictionary describes ignorance as 'uninformed ; want of knowledge'  I think having produced just one litter that is very accurate.

im aware of the things that can go wrong but u cross your fingers and pray nothing does but u dont have to be scared.having confidence is not a crime
Heaven forbid!  No, it's not a crime, but to the things that can go wrong but u cross your fingers and pray nothing does is just plain foolish and is certainly putting your bitch at risk!! :(  I can't honestly believe that I have read that! :(  And dog breeding is not a subject that you can learn as you go along!!!  You are dealing with living animals, not making cakes that you can throw in the bin when a recipe goes wrong.......

Of course you are free to post your opinion, but please, make sure that you tell the person you are trying to advise just how limited your experience is.  That is only fair to them when they are trying to make a serious and best decision for their bitch and subsequent puppies that will be produced.

pocahontas1, I am a little more than middle aged! :)  My dogs have always been well behaved and trained to a 'livable' level, but I would NEVER reply to a question about dog training because there are those who specialise in that area and have far more knowledge and experience than me, so I leave those posts to them.

What a well put post, Val!

Pocahontas, please read what has been said on ALL the breeding posts and you will realise that it can be far from plain sailing.

Pink (Original Poster) - if you are still reading your thread - please take your dog to ANOTHER vet, and talk things through with her/him - and do post to let us know your decision.

Regards Margot

jeangenie im aware of the things that can go wrong but u cross your fingers and pray nothing does but u dont have to be scared.having confidence is not a crime