Ok, after Tarquin my beautiful black boy cat was killed on the road I am now trying to make sure Delilah (his sister) is in by 8pm and the cat flap locked and she isnt allowed out until morning ( I dont know if he was killed at night or that morning because he usually came into sleep at night but I dont want to take any chances) Anyway she is an absolute nightmare to keep in, she is part Tonkinese so as soon as she realises the cat flap is locked she yowls the place down, last night she managed to sneak out when I let the dogs out and didnt come back until the early hours (luckily I have a four way locking cat flap).  Tonight I thought I had her, set up her litter tray and showed it to her, I thought all was well until I heard a thud, looked into the kitchen and there she was on the outside sill of the window (I live in an upstairs maisonette ) she jumped down onto the shed roof and was away over the fields ( B*tch ) now she will be over the woods hunting and wont come back again until the early hours.  I dont know how people who breed manage, a cat on heat must be worse, no wonder there are so many accident litters where they escape :(

One of my cats has his own little "gang". Every evening at around 6PM he comes past our fence with 3 of his little black cat buddys , then he comes through the broken board , looks back and then comes into his flap :D. I wonder if they terrorize small dogs at the park , he loves that!

Tarquin was friends with all the cats in the neighbour hood, even now they come down my pathway I swear just to see if he is around :(  Delilah on the other hand doesnt really get on with the neighbours cats, they dont fight she just snubs them :D :D

I am very sad that you lost your tarquin and I can appreciate how scared you are that something will happen to Delilah. However if Delilah is a cat who wishes to be out and about, then it would be an awful existence for her to be confined to the house. As you are letting her out in the day there is no guarantee of safety anyway. I would advise you to let her go about as she wishes and take comfort that she is enjoying herself. Try your best not to stress about it.

Well she has just come in and has settled on my bed for the night.  I feel that she has more chance of being hit by a car at night because she cant be seen, but I dont actually think she goes near roads as I dont really live near any ( Tarquin went for a fair wander to find the road he was killed on :( ) Other problems at night living here are the lads who go lamping on the back field now the crops have been harvested.  Im hoping she will get into a routine eventually.

Claireys.....i really do feel for you, i had 2 cats from kittens and i never ever let them out because at the time we lived on a busy main road, but 1 day i'd left the kitchen windows open and they both escaped :-( i tried all day to get them back in but couldn't catch them :-( so in the evening i went out to look for them and my eldest cat (2 at the time) had seen me and was crossing the road to come towards me and a car came shooting down the main road and hit my cat :-( i took him to the vets straight away and the vet put him on a drip over night....and called me the next morning to say that Taz was brain damaged and needed to be pts :-( then 2 months later the same thing happened again with my other cat :-( and she was killed on the road.....and since then i haven't had another cat :-)

So i totally understand what your going through and why your worried about Delilah.

Hi
We have 4 cats of varying ages we have a routine that 7.00pm they all rounded up and are kept in we dont have a cat flap ( my neighbour does and finds it difficult to keep her cats in too)  I think its because having a flap gives them free reign and it is harder to get them into a routine ......once they are in they all have a big feed and curl up in thier respective places and go to sleep I also put reflective collars on them especially during the winter months as it goes dark around 4.00pm.
If you keep bringing her in at the same time each night for a feed it will become a habit also she will want to be in soon when the weather become colder...... we all know what cats are like for a lovely warm cosy fire!!

My cat (Pedigree) has never been let out so she doesn't know what she is missing...and I know where she is and she is always safe then.  However I am looking to the possibility of having a cat run built so she can enjoy the fresh air in the daytime and possibly some company for her too!    (Which loosely means I want another kitten!!!)

I don't see the point in having an animal like a cat and never letting it out. Thats not a life, its an existance. In fact I think it is cruel. :(

I totally agree colliesrus :-) and thats why i wont have another cat

Honestly colliesrus, I'm sorry but here you really do not have a clue! Why should a cat run loose, would you let your dog do it as well, unsupervised??? what exactly is the difference?? Personally I NEVER sell a kitten to anybody who says they will let it out unless they have had a cat run built. It is far more cruel for these poor cats to get run over, poisoned, attacked by dogs, infected with FIV, FIA whatever from other cats, stolen etc etc, than to be kept in. Even cats that have lived outdoors for years can get used to being indoors and love it -I have 2 rescued mogs myself that had no problem whatsoever in adjusting. What would you all say if people kept posting saying "My dog was run over when he was out on his own" -I don't think anybody would consider that to be acceptable...... :rolleyes:

Thanks for that Goldmali, I feel so much better about my poor Tarquin.  The only reason I got cats was because I thought they would be safe seeing as I dont live near any roads.  IMO cats need to go out alone to hunt, they arent like a dog who can have adequate exercise with its owner.  This argument has been done to the death on here before anyway, my Tarquin may have only lived two years of his short life but he lived a better life than any cat stuck indoors with no life.

what would you do if people kept posting saying "my dog never goes outside other than in a purpose built run" - I dont think anyone would consider that to be acceptable.... :rolleyes:

You cannot compare cats and dogs in the way they are treated ClareyS, they are different animals.You do however keep both as SAFE as possible. How many indoor only cats have you lived with, to find out it is "cruel"? I personally have lived with something in between 40 and 50 indoors cats from 1977 onwards. Bred 43 litters of kittens that have gone to indoor only homes. None of them have been unhappy being indoors. The two I was convinced to let out both died untimely deaths in very nasty ways. Why should cats be allowed to hunt? What's the need? You don't let other pets out to hunt do you? They're PETS, no longer wild animals. You substitute.

well actually my dogs go out to hunt everyday on their daily walk, unfortunatley I never managed to teach my cats a sufficient enough recall.  It is in a cats nature to hunt, why should we take that away from them, toys are no subsitute.

and I never said keeping cats indoors is cruel as long as they get sufficient outside excercise and stimulus im sure it is fine.

I totally agree Goldmali. I love all animals & my parents kept siamese cats indoors (also with access to the garden) for years. I currently don't have cats as I am away from home far too much (the dogs don't cause a problem as they come with me!)

Whilst I feel for the OP loosing her much loved pet, it could so easily have been avoided. & aside from all the risks to cats, where is the owners responsibility in all this? I'm sure my neighbours would complain profusely if I allowed my dogs toroam on their property - why should cats be different? I don't see why I should have to put up with my neighbours cats using my garden as a toilet, terrorising my dogs (OK, so they really are big pansies!) & trying to break into my rabbits hutches for a free feed (I lost a rabbit pup to a cat attack)??

I understand that cat owners love their pets dearly - I love my rabbits too & cannot understand how cat owners think it is acceptable for their pets to come onto my property to kill my pets. It is a totally irresponsible & unacceptable attitude!

"Better inside & fat than outside & flat!!!!!!"

My cat has never been out so she has no idea of the dangers of the world with cars & air rifles, savage dogs and 2 out of 5 moggy cats carrying feline Aids etc.   She is contented and has plenty of daddy-long-legs & flies to chase indoors as well, she is sitting here curled up on my bed, her belly full of food and she is totally content.

>"Better inside & fat than outside & flat!!!!!!"

If you want to twist the knife you could always say with his eye balls hanging out of his head, as my poor Tarquin was.

Claire,

My b & w moggy cat Topsy was knocked down and survived for 5 days afterwards, all her internal organs were pushed up through her diaphram and as she struggled to get back to the house, it was only then did you see the mess that was done to her.  So I know first hand what cars can do too.

Amy & Teddy - another 2 b & w moggies - both went out in the day as usual, never to return (Several years apart) and the not knowing is even worse than knowing they've been killed.  I still torture myself wondering how they met their ends.  :(

Now I have Zelli and it was on the understanding she was kept in unless neutered and supervised outside.    Most pedigree cat breeders sell with these clauses.   And if I ever breed myself, any kittens will go out onthis understanding too.

I used to think that too. Until all the cats in our rural lane were killed by cars.

Also some breeds of cat (I have a friend who breeds ragdolls) are genetically unsuited for freeranging. They've been designed to be 'pets', not 'cats'. To let them roam free is the same as abandoning a human toddler in the middle of a city and leaving it to find its way home.

Its a nightmare, I dont live near a road im right at the end of a cul-de-sac and back on to farmland and woodland. I never dreamt Tarquin would travel so far on his hunting missions and end up on a road :(  The only reason I got cats was because I thought they would be safe from the roads, when I was a kid all my cats were run over :(

I am entitled to my opinion and that is it. If an area is too unsafe for a cat to be let out then IMO you shouldn't have one.

I thought where I lived would be ok :(

I really dont think its  fair collierus to suggest people shouldnt have cats because it is unsafe for them to be let out...... there are far too many unwanted cats and kittens in this country in need of loving homes.
My cats are all rescue and have a much happier fulfilled life with us they are allowed out during the day and spend most of it in our large garden climbing trees and chasing leaves  or visiting my neighbours and getting treats !
rather than being left in cramped cages in the hope that someone will come along and rescue them or worse be put to sleep and have no life at all.

~Roni

How dfo you keep a cat in and still be able to have windows open.
My windows and doors are always open when i am at home.
We were working at a house for weeks, and whenever we needed the toilet it would take the owner ages to get to the door to let us in as she was rounding up her 2 house cats. Yes she lived next door to a railway line, but I couldnt imagine living without opening my windows and doors without rounding cats up. and frankly i dont have the time.
How does everyone else do it??
Lea :)

You don't have the windows open wide enough to let a cat get through.

when I want my cats to stay in I have the windows open just enough so that they cant get out
we also dont leave the doors open cause the dogs would get out!!!
if anyone knocks and I want the cats to stay in I shut the door to the rooms they are in.
You just get used to living in a certain way.

Hi Lea
We have wire across our windows to be able to have them wide open. :) There's all sorts of ways it can be done.

Well, I'm glad you won't be coming to me for a kitten!    I advise anyone having a kitten from me now, that you MUST treat a cat in the same way as you treat a dog:  would you open the door and let your dog roam anywhere he wanted?    I think not!

Cats, like dogs, are not able to cope with traffic - even in rural areas.   Naturally they will want to roam - as would your dog, if you didn't restrain it.    So what's the difference?

Cats can go out, supervised, just as dogs do - its the only way to keep them safe.

Margot

I wish I had never started this post now, its making me feel even more sh#t than I already feel.

Lokis mum, from your tales I know your cats roam free.

My cats roam free in my quarter-acre garden - with an inward-facing trellis.    I also live in the middle of a golf course, which is a mile and a half off the road - and my cats ARE supposed to be in my garden.    However, as I've said in my other post, they do get out - but its not something that I encourage, and I do tell people to treat their kittens as dogs.

Clairey, I'm not blaming you - I do so sympathise - its a lesson hard-learnt.   I'm trying to convince Colliesrus that sweeping statements about curtailing freedom do not help.

Margot

I have a large garden - not that large though but as I have said my garden backs onto acres of fields and woodland with a mile to the nearest road I cant to this day understand why he went so far. 

I never thought I would feel this way about a cat, I got them when I moved into my new house because I couldnt afford a dog and everything that goes with it, they were my doggie subsitute, I never thought I would love them as much as I do.  I am so gutted and still now I cant believe he has gone :(

I understand just how you feel, and it's sh1t. One of our cats just never came home - he could have been killed on the road (a mile away) or the railway line (½ mile away) or by a fox (much closer). We never knew.

I learned that if they're allowed out, they take their chances. Indoors=safe=stultified? Outside=unsafe=early death?

Decisions, decisions ...

Thats why I was so glad someone found him and called me, it must have been such a difficult thing to do :(

I feel for you. When I kept cats I never had a catflap. They meowed at the door when they wanted in or out, but they were shut in from dusk till they were let out in the morning. That way they lived till 18 years.

I live at the end of a cul-de-sac, to the side and back of my house are fields and woodland, there is a country lane a mile away, that is the nearest road.  I never dreamed my cat would travel that far, but he did and he faced the consequences :( this could have happened at night or during the day, im not taking any chances with his sister, the cat flap is locked at night and opened in the morning, tonight she came in with a shrew played with it for a while then ate it I couldnt take that pleasure away from her, she is now content (after ten minutes of yowling) curled up on my bed.  Im hoping in time she will get used to being kept in at night.

JG you are lucky, I fully expected to have my cats until the were well into their teens.

This is the sad thing about it - we don't realise just how far our cats will roam ......I one time discovered Buster right at the top of our lane (a mile and a half away from home ) when he should have been inside!

He hopped in the car, tail twitching, as if he had been waiting for a lift - but we would never have known what had happened to him, if he'd gone onto the main road.

Let's face it, if they got the chance, our dogs would do the same thing - so please, colliesrus, don't get on your high horse about freedom.....

Margot

I currently have 2 cats (along with the 3 dogs).
One of them is an outdoor cat and is half sister to my other cat.
She's a dark tortie semi-longhair and wears a safety reflective collar with a bell as she's
a hunter... (she's also be neutered so no kittens)

My other cat is about 2 years younger than his half sister is a huge black and white
semi-longhair lad. (he's neutered)
He's the biggest scardy cat I've ever known....he won't go outside as such.
He sits in the garden on the picnic table, may on occasions be brave and venture to
the bottom of the garden. But on the whole he prefers to be a house cat.
He seems as content as his sister, he has his litter tray indoors, toys, scratching posts,
and the dogs...

My old cat that lived with my Nan was also a hunter and a neighbourhood boss cat.
Sadly he died this year (old age he was 17-18 years old) and since his death my Nan's cat seems to have lost all her
confidence. All the other cats now come in the garden and bully her.
She really misses my boy and his caring protective ways.

>colliesrus, don't get on your high horse about freedom.....

Margot I'm not on any high horse, I just don't agree with cats being kept indoors permanently, at night fine, but to never go outside in their lives I don't agree with and will not change my mind. I also do not agree with birds kept in cages or averies. That is my opinion, I thought the idea of this board was so ppl could express their thoughts and feelings without being jumped on. All I am doing is saying how I feel about the matter as IMO the OP should not be beating herself up about losing Tarquin the way she did.

No, dogs and cats cannot be compared, but neither can cats and guinea pigs and to only ever see the light of day from a garden run is what my guinea pigs used to do.

Clairey, I know I was lucky. That's why I won't have another cat. Nobody's that lucky.

My cat used to be an indoor cat.

Until one day he jumped out of my first floor flat window. Despite having NEVER known what outdoors was like, he'd seen enough out of the windows to know it was for him!

There is, i am afraid no way i would have a cat if it could not go out, and i debated long and hard about bringing him to this house when i moved, as it is MUCH nearer a MUCH busier main road, a main road i have in fact witnessed a cat get run  over on.

He comes home with fight wounds, he kills things and brings them to me proudly, and he has several acres of fields and woodland to play in.
He is a big sturdy cat, and more than capable of taking care of himself, and on the occasions he has been on house arrest due to injury, he has made it absolutly plain that he does NOT wish to be locked up. To do taht to him would be cruelty.

I cannot speak for other cats, and i do know other cats who live indoors and never go out that seem happy enough. I do also know other cats kept in doors who have killed themselves in attempting to get out, or have been so stressed by it they have developed self harming tendancies (my mum has one, she would scratch her neck until it bled, now is fine and goes out and about quite happily).

It is i think the risk you have to take when owning cats, and in 25 yaers of living with cats, we have had ONE hit by a car (and he was the most stupid ginger fool you had ever met), and most of those cats lived with us near fairly busy roads.

I do agree with JG that certain breeds of cat really ARENT equipped, phyiscally or mentally, to rough it out of doors, but then i personally disagree iwth breeding an animal so far removed from what it SHOULD be in the first place!

But thats me, and i cant say what other people should do with their cats!

Em

This isn't going to be a popular post, but since 3 cats moved next door,and we also have other cats in the neighbourhood, our garden birds have continually lost fledglings. One we were feeding, and it was even recognising us and responding with opening the bill and flapping wings, but again a cat caught it in our garden, just as it caught the other ones. The problem with cats is that they decimate the bird population in towns in my view. I love them as animals, but dislike them I am afraid as neighbours, as my preference is keeping the garden safe for birds :( I've even grown plants and trees with bird nesting and feeding in mind.

It is heartbreaking to see birds you have known for years, and who have managed to bring up many fledglings,  show such distress as the new cats kills their fledglings they have worked so hard to feed. And it makes me angry that the cats are in MY garden and i can't keep them away -I have tried using kind methods but can't do any more. It was hard enough with cats a few doors away, but now with cats next door I fear the birds will not be successful ever again as the cats will always be able to find the youngstrs on the ground :(

I get on well with my neighbours and they have tried to stop their cats by putting up corrugated plastic etc, but nothing seems to work.

Lindsay
x

I hate it when mine bring home birds, it is so upsetting.  Thankfully the birds are few and far between, Delilah at the moment goes down to the water treatment works at the end of the track and comes back with giant mice (they arent rats, definitely mice but they are super sized ) or she occasionally comes back with a shrew or vole.  It isnt nice but one thing I will her due for is that she eats her prey so it doesnt go to waste.

You want to get yourself a super soaker water pistol and shoot the cats when they come in your garden, that should put them off :D :D

Mine has killed the odd bird, i cant deny it (and he is eyeing up a neighbours noisy macaw that lives on a perch outside for most of the summer)...

Most of the birds round here tend to have the sense to nest somewhere sensible, and so far all he has ever brought home is pigeon squabs and starlings.

The amount of mice (i wish he wouldnt kill the pretty field mice), and RATS he kills is amazing, so i think he does his fair share, and undoubtedly, the rats, certainly the adult ones, would take eggs and young from low nests.

I did once get into some SERIOUS trouble, (crowd of screaming yelling people), when i booted him out of the door saying 's*d off and kill me something' (*JOKINGLY*), and in front of a group of OAP's he murdered a squirrel and brought it back to me.
I got accused of having trained my cat to kill things (evident from the fact id 'told' him to do it), and that the pretty little grey squirrels (ahem, tree rats) didnt deserve it.

Mind you, their tune changed when the squirrels they had all been feeding moved into the roof space and had to be trapped and killed for fear of them chewing threw pipes and electrics...

Em

Lindsay arent the cats worried about your dogs? We have a few cats around here but they are too scared to come into our yard because of the dogs.They look into our yard from the tree on the other side of our fence,but daren't come over

Banya chases any cat out of our garden, but they come back as soon as she's gone!

When i was a child, we had a fab cat next door, and he used to just lie and watch the birds, he never caught even one!
I understand it's nature, and don't blame the cats; I suppose I wish that there were "less" cats around so that local birds had more chance. It's Ok of course once the fledgings are able to fly, but it's that few weeks between them being so vulnerable on the ground and being able to fly which is so dangerous for them.

What with people putting down slug bait, lack of suitable nesting sites etc, our garden birds are fighting a losing battle.

Lindsay
x

I think that going a long way is partly a 'boy thing'. we have 3 girls and a boy. The girls hardly ever go out of our small back garden. Fin on the other hand is regually seen half a mile from our house and it is really difficult to take the dogs for a walk without him tagging along. Not such a problem if we go across the fields but definately a problem when we walk in to the village :(  

Delilah only seems to go in the  back field and will only follow so far with the dogs (although if I dont go back the same way she will be missing for most of the day because she hangs around the spot she last saw me waiting for me to come back :rolleyes: .  Tarquin though would follow wherever i went with the dogs, like you though it is ok going over the fields and woods but I would end up carrying him if our walk ended up in the village.  One night it was dark so we took the boys on a road walk with the plan of ending up at the pub, Tarquin followed us right round the village, we were worried about leaving him to go in the pub but assumed he would just wander home.  When we came out of the pub I called just to see if he was still about and you heard a tinkle tinkle and a big meaow and he appeared from underneath a bush :D :D

I put my cats inside when i take the dogs for a walk,as they follow us also :(

from someone who nearly lost their dog a couple of weeks ago to a road :( i understand how you feel letting your cats out - we used to have a persian who was an indoor cat and he was perfectly happy being in the house all the time.

If the cat does get out and you are worried about her being seen could you get something to make her seen more easily? reflective collar or something along those lines?