I have a long haired white alsation.  He is registered and I would like to breed him but he is a bit of a wuss!!  He picks on dogs smaller than him and runs from dogs the same size!!  Over the last 6 weeks I have noticed a change in him when I take him on walks.  He is a bit aggressive with other dogs and this is worrying me as he has been socialised from a young age.  Any tips would be appreciated.

trip, trap, trip, trap, trip ............ splash :(

hope this isnt the white GSD thats in a earlier post

Nah it's an Alsation ;)

Just in case your post is serious and not a wind up....
1/ a dog who is aggressive SHOULD NEVER be bred from
2/ your male will need hip scoring and heamo testing....not cheap!!!!!!
3/ read the first post on the breeding board to understand YOUR responsabilities as a stud owner
Archer

It should also conform as closely as possible to the breed standard.

Ditto BL   but I am right in saying it is long haired and white so that in itself is incorrect so not got a hope in heaven ;-). Be glad to be wrong though

Nothing to stop  anyone breeding from a dog that does not conform to breed standard & that has obvious problems such as temperament/aggression etc & has had no health tests done :( "White" & longcoat are classed by the breeders of such as rare/special/valuable & hence their customers think that their dogs must be bred from :rolleyes:

IMHO"whites"are no more special,rare or valuable than any other "Alsation"

it really upsets me when say that a white gsd is wrong i cant see a problem if the dog is healthy what does it matter if the coat is white

It matters because it does not conform to the breed standard.

Dawn R.

rebbecca are you the original poster? :)

yes i am.i have 3 white gsd

all my dogs conform to breed standard apart from coat colour.

That's a bit like saying 'all my dogs conform to the breed standard apart from having correct mouths' - the standard needs to be considered as a whole ...

yes i no you are right but it does annoy me that the coat colour is so important when it is the dog inside that counts

The is nothing to stop you breeding from your"white"GSDs, but my gripe is why do people who breed them charge more & claim they are "rare" "special" "valuable" when they are not. I have just been speaking to our GSD rescue lady, of the 18 dogs she has in for rehoming 11 are"white" yet whites account for less than 15% of GSDs. She has a long term resident who is white who cannot be rehomed because of behaviourial/health problems, the result of bad breeding. The problem with 99% of people who breed "white"GSDs is they breed for the colour & nothing else. They have no regard for the breed standard or the future of the breed. I would like to bet 99% of pet/"white"/longcoat breeder have never even read the breed standard & most have no regard to ALL the health tests that need to be done. Many do not know that epilepsy is behind many dogs & they pay no regard to bloodlines.

A local"white"breeder near to me has now started breeding champagne/beige/cream/pink(yes it was in the BRS)sables !!! as the white market is getting a bit flooded round here She has taken three litters from an epileptic bitch & two so far from her 15 month old epileptic daughter !

I know a breeder who breeds to the breed standard who occasionally gets long coats & blues in their litters they sell ALL their puppies at the same price whether they are possible show dogs or pets because they produce healthy well bred puppies & each costs the same to rear. They could charge £1,000+ for their blue but they do not as they are not breeding to make money but to continue their show lines

Colour is important just as coreect mouths, bodily proportions, temperaments, HD, epilepsy, VW, haemophillia etc it is the total dog that should be bred for not just a non standard coat colour

my bitch will have all tests needed before i breed. i make no claims that they are rare and would not over price them

But are they actually white ? I've not seen a white"white"GSD in the UK

Why only have your bitch tested & not the dog ? & it will not just be the colour of the coat that is non standard but if the dogs are longcoated the coat will be incorrect as well as longcoats don't have the waterprood undercoat needed for GSDs to be able to work in all weathers

my male dog is more sable(both parents were black) but both my bitches are white

Pure white ? with no tinges of any other colour like a white poodle ? very very unusal as most "white"GSDs are anything but actually white

Do they have the correct coat, teeth, shape & construction ?  Are they the right proportions of height to length ? Not just your opinion but that of an impartial 3rd party who knows & understands the GSD breed standard ?

the bitch i want to breed is my male less so but perfect to me

> the bitch i want to breed is my male less so but perfect to me <

Sorry ? Is your bitch actually pure white & does she conform to the breed standard is what I asked, I don't understand your reply

yes she is white and is a good example of the breed. my male is not so lucky that is why we are not breeding from him

Have you shown her or had her surveyed as excellent ? Just as most "white"GSDs are not pure white but are cream or off white. I've only had GSDs(not Alsation as you described your dog in your original post)

> I have a long haired white alsation.  He is registered and I would like to breed him but he is a bit of a wuss!!  He picks on dogs smaller than him and runs from dogs the same size!!  Over the last 6 weeks I have noticed a change in him when I take him on walks.  He is a bit aggressive with other dogs and this is worrying me as he has been socialised from a young age.  Any tips would be appreciated. <

> rebbecca are you the original poster? <

> yes i am.i have 3 white gsd  <

What changed your mind about breeding from him ?

sorry the first post was not me got confused i have not shown her but would like to

i am not breeding from my male

There are many pure whites. White GSD's ARE NOT albinos and have no more health problems than any other GSD. And before you start going through all my posts to read up on me I will save you the trouble ;) Yes I have a WGSD, NO he is not of great standered, that was down to my stupidity of believing everything I was told and falling in love with a puppy I shouldn't have, this however I am quite pleased with as now I know what to look for and what/what not to do next time :). But there are plenty out there that are good and are perfectly healthy, the coat colour is classed as undesirable for silly reasons and as far as I'm concerned so long as a dog is healthy then there is no problem. There is much debate from people who prefere the 'normal' colourds but then ho hum lol, there is also much debate as to how the whites came about. I dont want to start ANOTHER debate but it seemed to me that this thread was going to a 'whites should not be bred from' debate...

Sorry where have I stated they should not be bred from ?

I personally knowing the bloodlines most whites come  from in the UK would not touch one with a bargepole(& I am writing of the lines off the current dogs pedigrees which most pet people & those who only know their own dogs pedigrees will not be aware of)

So now I have no right to express an opinion about "white"GSDs

People who set out to breed a non standard colour in any breed are not breeding to improve a breed & leave themselves open to critizm if they breed dogs that are substandard in any respect(this means conformation & health not colour)

Oh MM, I didnt say you said that, I simply said that is how it felt it was going, and I wouldnt dare tell you that you are not entitled to your opinion... As am I... I just felt I needed to stick up for my breed and colour... There is no harm done.

Just to add, I went to a 'friendly' dog show a few years back, and most of the WGSD's were actually PURE white. I personally prefered the look of my dog with his charactor colours, but there were plenty there :) and they are called white gsd's so I really dont understand the emphasis on the 'white'.

You obviously don't think the same care should be taken in breeding from"white"GSDs as standard colours conformation wise.

I never bred from a bitch who was not breed surveyed & received an excellent grading. This means that they fell within the breed requirements for a German Shepherd Dog. Being assessed solely against the breed standard in height, coat type, ratio of height to length, dentition, movement, character, conformation etc & not against other dogs(in Germany it is called the Korung)the only thing that was not covered was man work as in the UK at the time only dogs doing Working Trials were manwork trained(later I did train my males for Schutzhund)

The same care should be taken for all GSDs irrespectively of coat colour but sadly it is not

ok good point how would i go about doing that i no i could show if i joined walcs

Hi moon this is why boxer breeders do not and would never breed from a white boxer.I love white boxers dearly and they are no diffeent from other boxers, but should never be bred from. as you so rightly said of all breeds People who set out to breed a non standard colour in any breed are not breeding to improve a breed & leave themselves open to critizm if they breed dogs that are substandard in any respect(this means conformation & health not colour)

LOL Polly

I'll quote you from a local paper(which has 5 adverts for"white"GSDS)

"Rare white GSD puppies, both parents can be seen, specially bred for huge bone & size £750 dogs £900 bitches ready now, further litter ready in 3 weeks. Will sell breeding pairs for £1,500......."

Nuff said

Yes, thats right, pick something out of a newspaper... I'm sure I would find plenty of articles on ANY breed and ANY colour...would I not?

There are at least 20 such adverts every week like this I just picked the first one no claims from standard colour breeders that their dogs are rare !

Didn't you write

" NO he is not of great standered, that was down to my stupidity of believing everything I was told " ?

so someone must have deceived you the same way these people are deceiving people who buy from them

No mention in any of the adverts about hip scoring etc. BTW no GSD should have huge bone or size no matter what colour

my sister has just brought a black and tan gsd she was told he was kc reg and both parents were hip scored but we have since found out that he is not kc reg but trials reg and the mother is not kc reg or even hip scored(the sire is kc reg and has a good hip score)so she has paid out 500 for unreged dog so it seems that any one can be misled

> my sister has just brought a black and tan gsd she was told he was kc reg and both parents were hip scored but we have since found out that he is not kc reg but trials reg and the mother is not kc reg or even hip scored(the sire is kc reg and has a good hip score)so she has paid out 500 for unreged dog so it seems that any one can be misled  <

Presumably she saw the dogs paperwork ie parents pedigrees etc before she handed over the money ? Were they advertised as KC reg if so Trading Standards will take action. If she didn't know the people she bought the dog from commonsense would have been no papers no money simple as that. This is why people on here bang on about going to a reputable breeder of any breed. breeder whose dogs are hip scored etc will have copies & of course good GSD breeders have their breeding animals & puppies tattooed so you know the paperwork belongs to the dogs you see

Like I said in my posts all dogs should be surveyed before breeding & then purchasers can see the report from the survey & of course the parent paperwork & proof that the litter registration has been sent off to the KC-I always kept a copy of the KC forms if the registrations weren't back in time.

she was shown paperwork kc reg and bva hip score but when she got home the paper work said trials reg

Oh dear she should have looked more closely, the activites register certs do say that on them & the BVA will score any dog registered or not(hence my ISDS puppy's parents being scored). She did check the father was haemo tested it would be on the reg too

The dog is KC reg just not for breed classes & £500 is about the going rate for a GSD from hip scored parents

nice to hear from another wgsd lover it seems there arnt many of us out there

:) No, I dont suppose I do care so much about colour if I'm honest MM. I am not in to showing, WGSD's are no more unhealthy than the norm and as already said there is plenty of debate about the whites and I know people who are trying to get this 'fault' thing lifted. Whether you feel that is right or wrong doesn't really mater as you will go for what ever colour you feel is nicer :)

The breed standard will never include white as an option. They only way to get it accepted by the KC would to have them recognised by the KC as a separate breed. The UK KC take the breed standard of imported breeds from the country of origin & the SV will never incude white as an acceptable colour, there have been no propsals from the GSD breed Council to the KC for a standard change & the BC is the only way for breed standard changes to be put to the KC, no matter what members of the WALCC like to tell people. They are not a member club of the BC & so have no say in the wording of the breed standard.

There is no bar on "white"GSDs being shown in conformation classes as the UK KC has no disqualifying traits.

>The breed standard will never include white as an option. They only way to get it accepted by the KC would to >have them recognised by the KC as a separate breed.

yep, in Sweden (so I'd imagine FCI countries) they are now reg'd as White Herding Dogs. The colour is a lot whiter than I've seen here though, they are shortcoated not long, and the type has been made slightly different to a GSD so that it is more an obvious separate breed.

They are more like the other shepherd dogs being lighter boned & more upright in movement at least the ones I have seen are

it really upsets me when say that a white gsd is wrong i cant see a problem if the dog is healthy what does it matter if the coat is white

I feel the same about whites. Why do we seem to get a hard time for having them.

Have a look at GSD rescues Just had a phone call another 2 "white"GSDSs no longer wanted Bought on a whim of having something different & now dumped on a rescue Our Rescue always has more unwanted "white"GSDs than correctly coloured ones even though less than 15% of GSDs registered with the KC are"white"

Even had some blues in(three litter mates)that were sold to three different homes for £900 a throw !

:rolleyes:

This happens with ANY breed MM at some time or another, Labradors are the worst are they not? There really is no need to pick on white breeds. Why not help educating people about whites not being rare instead of disaproving so..

But the labs in rescue are "correct"colours & BTW GSDs  are not a "white"breed & there are nearly 4 times as many lab bred as GSDs & thats just the ones reg at the KC. Now if over 50% of labs in rescue were "silver"you would be comparing like with like

I have no problem with people owning whites nor odd whites turning up in litters but deliberating breeding simply for the non standard colour is wrong IMHO

"But the labs in rescue are "correct"colours"

Exactly, it makes no difference what colour correct or not, I have been to many rescues, at different times, sometimes there were more lab, other times GSD's, other times jackrussells.... They are not all in there because of their colour or becase of where they were bought from. GSD's are a big dog and can be difficult regardless of colour, sex, size whatever, it is purely just unfortunate that your resue seems to have mostly whites.