My 17 week old pointer puppy has never been a big eater.   At first we couldn't persuade him to eat anything then changed to barf and there was a definite improvement however he now eats on some occasions, not on others and in general doesn't seem that bothered either way.  He is on the lean side but not overly skinny.  This lack of interest in food makes training him quite difficult - have tried sausages, cheese, liver etc. as treats but he isn't interested particularly if there are other dogs or people around - he'd rather be playing with them!  I see people on the park with their puppies and most will do ANYTHING for a treat - the only thing that motivates ours is the prospect of a game and this can make a training session very time consuming!  Does anyone else have this problem? Any advice much appreciated!

if games are the things he interested in then thats how you have got to reward him.
what exactly can he do and what can he do?
also what would you like him to do? and i can see what i can think of to help.

the game doesnt have to be a long one just one throw of a toy and the game can in corperate training such as you throw ball(a short distance and try doing it  with him sitting and waiting if possible) this can be acheived by hold the ball above him and moving it back wards over his head(most dogs will sit some will jump up) give him a firm NO to jumping up.(i have assumed you dont want him jumping up as he will be a big dog when older).

once toy is thrown (depending on if you can get him to wait although this can be taught in a different session) tell him to fetch hopefully he will bound after it in typical puppy fashion.and more hopefully pick it up and bring it back.

if he does bring it back as he approaches tell him you recall command (come / here etc)as he gets to you move backwards slowly telling him to come etc

place your hand out and try to get him to give you (the probably slobbered) ball

this is the tricky part if him look like he is gonna drop it try and get it brfore he does . if he moves away as you go to get it started to almost run back wards telling him come and as he get close enough take the ball.

if he does well then the next step is to get himto sit or stand still while he gives you the ball.

i use this training exercise alot as it teaches alot of different things and can be adapted well.

does this help at all?

Thanks for the advice ikkledevil.  He's pretty good with the basic commands ie sit, down, stay in the house or garden but when we are out on walks or at training class we struggle to get his attention.  I will try using the game as part of the training.  We do play 'fetch' quite often but I haven't been using the 'come' command when he is coming back to me so will try that one from now on.  His favourite game is tug of war which means he is often reluctant to 'drop' the ball quickly so this game is not quick at all!  Should we stop playing tug with him until he's older?  If we are playing tug and I win I ask him to sit, then down and stay then we play again until i win.  Not sure how this would work with games such as fetch?

i tend not to play tug of war at all. partly because i train my dog to work as shooting dog and you cant have them try to play with a shoot bird or rabbit. and also i think alot of male dogs get carried away with this game if they are allowed to win alot. they sometimes become aggressive. also remember that it may be easy to win now but what about when he is fully grown and alot stronger.?????

i often get my dog to sit , down, wave and stand on there back legs before throwing the ball . often do more than one thing on each throw so say

sit , down, wave, down, stand   or maybe a down , stand, wave etc

also i get them to sit and wait then throw the ball. i find that puting my palm in front of the dogs head while i say wait help for later on when you need to control him at a distance. and some dogs pick up the signal before the word.

sometimes i even throw the ball and make him wait while i go and pick it up. that way teaching him that not only ar you capable of getting the ball yourself but that not every time something is throw is for him( this is help full if you are and the park and some else has a ball and the dog see it thrown and heads after it. it is also use ful for teaching the wait command as it acts as a distraction.)

another thing to try is cover his eyes with one hand and throw the ball with the other( this one makes them think )if he strugles while you cover his eyes just speak to him and try again. throw the ball a short distance so he will be able to see it(on short grass at first) uncover his eyes telling him to wait. then tell him fetch.   if he doesnt spot it straight away and get it but just sits there looking at you saying well throw it then. walk him over to the ball and show him where it is . he will soon get the idea.

i also use the word mark when i throw something to teach the dog to watch where it has landed( usefull in gundog training but maybe not for a pet.

once he has master short grass move to longer grass them bushes and woodland to make things more interesting . and you can also use this technique when it come to teaching him to swim.

i also do this with pups in the house . by playing with the pups then showing them i have placed the toy under a towel or sheet and say find or fetch. this gets them useing the brain and nose. i then begin to hide things in harder places.
including on top of things like a table or the garden bin lid. this help them learn that they have to look in alot of places. again it is helpful in gundogs training incase a shoot bird lands on a hedge or up a tree.but it could be adapted for just fun.

i also think that holding a ball in your hand can help with heel work .

this post it getting a bit long so i'll leave it here of the minute and if you want some heel work help just ask.

louise

Hi Rach and Nero -

Firstly I'd say that if you have a pointer, they are not 'natural' retrievers.  This doesn't mean they can't retrieve, because any dog can retrieve if it's trained correctly - but it does mean that your dog is unlikely to just go bounding after something you throw, pick it up and naturally bring it back to you, repeatedly.  (Unlike, say a lab would.)  It is also unlikely to find the retrieve itself inherently rewarding (again, as a lab or retriever would).  This means that even if you can train your dog to retrieve, the retrieve is unlikely to be a reward but rather a behaviour which requires a reward.  (If that makes sense.)

The second thing to say is that, like Louise, I have working gundogs which I work on a shoot, enter working tests successfully with and train with in gundog classes every week.  Unlike Louise, however, I use tuggy as a reward for a lot of behaviours.  My dogs love to play tuggy and will hang on forever to their tuggies.  Yet they have never developed hard mouth and willingly give up all retrieves to me.  The tuggy game is under my control and ends when I say 'Give'.  My dogs have never been aggressive towards any person or dog (or anything else) and indeed I've never heard of tuggy making a dog aggressive - most obedience and agility dogs are trained with tuggy as a motivator, so obviously top obedience trainers don't believe it makes their dogs aggressive either. 

IMO, if you have a dog which isn't interested in food, you need everything else there is in the book to use as motivation, and if you rule out tuggy you are effectively shooting yourself in the foot.  Especially if you can't use the retrieve either, because you have a breed which is unlikely to find a retrieve inherently rewarding. 

Why don't you try clicker training your dog, using tuggy?  Charge the clicker by clicking, then having a game of tuggy.  Click again, and have a game.  Soon the dog will learn that the click means a game.  Just use the tuggy instead of food.  The only drawbacks are that tuggy takes longer than giving a piece of sausage and you can work up a sweat with it!

>most obedience and agility dogs are trained with tuggy as a motivator, so obviously top obedience trainers don't believe it makes their dogs aggressive either.

Absolutely.  I trained my current dog purely with toys.  He was in no way interested in food as a reward.  So when I started doing clicker training instead of click and treat it was click and toy.  I actually don't like training with food any way.  I guess it is ok for training where a dog needs to be close to your but for agility you are wanting them to work away and food is much harder to throw than a toy.  Obviously my own personal opinion. 

I think a "treat" for a dog is whatever motivates them.  As an owner/handler it is up to us to find out what motivates.  For some dogs it is food, for others it is toys, for some it is a big cuddle.  Once you have found out what makes your dog happy you have your motivator.  And then training is easy.

mand

Mand, I totally agree.

sorry i dont think i have explained myself properly. i meant dog that get to win all the time 'usually' become more dominant and i have seen them become possesive of there toys.and that when the dog is bigger its harder to win. i was just trying to explain to the OP that she has to be careful of that( obversly i have failed to do that aproperatly.)

you are right the leave or give command should be taught. i had totally forgotten to mention that.sorry.

i under stand pointers are different from my breeds of retrievers but if the dog is already doing basic retrieves it would help training if the the other stuff was practiced as well. i think  a training oportunity should never be missed. if a dog is doing something anyway why not incorperate it into the training shedule.

your points are very good points though.

i dont believe that hard mouth is totally down to playing tug or war. but i do think in some dogs it can contribute to it.

they are many factors which if added together cause a dog to be hard mouthed.

although i dont play tug of war with my dogs i dont discourage them from playing it together.

Sox is the same. I just trained him using his toys. Like yours mine loves tug of war and he often wont give the toy back. I have tried leave, no, drop but the only thing that works is sit! If I say sit he drops the toy and I can then tell him leave until he allows me to pick up his toy. I do use the come command but for Sox this only works if he is less than 10 feet away if he is any further I call Come and then Good Boy and he comes. Not sure why but probably cause he thrives on praise.

Sorry I cant be of more help but I guess what I am saying is that it is important to tune into what makes your dog tick in order to train them. I tried for ages to make him respond to the 'correct' commands before realising that it doesnt actually matter so long as I can ask him to do something and he knows what I am asking.

Hi - to train 'Give', it doesn't matter what word you use for it!  If the dog loves to play tug of war, you should say 'Give' (or whatever your command is - but be consistent and use the same one every time, don't swap and change).  If the dog doesn't leave, then you drop the toy and turn away.  When he loses interest in the toy and drops it because you're not playing with him anymore, praise, go back, pick it up and play more.  You can also try opening his mouth by putting pressure at the sides to get him to release the toy, then immediately praise and have another game.  He will soon realise that the quicker he lets go, the quicker another game starts.  If you've asked him to 'Give' or leave, and he doesn't, it's important that you go totally limp and don't play tuggy - just gently hold the end.  That way he won't be self-rewarding himself with a game when he doesn't let go.  Does that make sense?

Thanks everyone
Its really interesting to hear about the techniques you use - ill certainly be trying out some of your ideas and Im glad im not the only one having to resort to other methods to motivate my dog!
Thanks again, Rach x