Hi

My Mum is looking for a chocolate/brown lab and I would like to check some advice her vet has passed on.
She has been advised not to buy from show breeders as her vet has told her these suffer health problems compared to working breeders?
Now I know very little on labs but reading some sites there are British and American labs. The British are fuller and mature quickly where the American is thinner and more athletic.
Now I would think both would have similar health risks i.e. hips and eyes but her vet has told her that 'show bred' labs are too heavy and that they are inbred too much?
I'm not sure what to make of her vets advice. I think she is confusing the English stock to the American one and I really think the comment on inbreeding is not right.
I've looked for the UK clubs and sent her the links to these as I feel they are the best people to start with and would be in a better position to advice her.

Is the advice from her vet right or wrong?

I would be very grateful for any advice you can pass on to me as I want my mum to find a lovely dog with an even temperament.

Regards
Stu

Hi
Are you in the UK? Here, Labradors are definitely split into the show type and the field working type, and the working type is a lot leaner -basically because they need the extra speed. :) However I would say there is no truth in the working ones being healthier, as long as great care is taken when chosing a breeder. Labradors are so over bred, especially chocolates, so many people breed them just to make money, and don't give a hoot about having hips and elbows scored, eyes tested etc -they just mate 2 available dogs together to get puppies to sell. THESE are the people that will produce the unhealthy dogs, not the show breeders that take a lot of care when breeding.

Another VERY important point to make is that a working bred Lab will be a LOT more energetic than a show bred one, so may not be everybody's ideal pet as they will have a much greater will to work, and for anyone just after a pet, a more sedate show bred one would be a lot more suitable.  Pretty much all working bred dogs, of whatever breed, are bred to be on the go constantly and need a lot more exercise and a lot more training to be happy.

Marianne

What her vet SHOULD be advising her, is to make sure that she buys from a genuine breeder (not a professional one, who might turn out to be a puppy farmer) but a breeder who has had the bitch hip scored and eye tested, and is, preferably, a member of the breed society.  The breeder will not necessarily own the stud dog - S/he should be using the stud that best complements her/his lines and which will improve upon any weak points that the bitch might have.    You don't really want to have two chocolate parents for the best chocolate labs!

There are two labrador lines - the working lines and the show lines.   You will generally find that show lines are generally the leaner dogs, but not necessarily so.  The working lines are, generally what they say - they work - and if they don't work, then they are HARD work!   So really, your vet is not giving your mum the best advice.    To say that show dogs are too inbred is a very sweeping statement - and personally, I would be walking away from a vet who generalises so much!

All labradors, left to their own devices, will eat for England and put on the weight to show it!   It is up to the owner to ensure that labradors are not over-fed, and are well-exercised.  

I would suggest that you contact the breed society nearest to you - often there will be a puppy registration officer, who will be able to give you details of litters near to your mum.

Good luck with your quest.

Regards

Margot

Thanks for the quick replies (hugs)

What you've said is just how I felt. When I looked for my Newf the UK club was my first stop as I heard some terrible stories.
My mum already has a chocolate lad called Coco who is a lovely dog but I don't feel its from the working dog strain due to her nature.
Bruce my Newf just loves the outside, rain, mud and everything else that means you don't have a clean house any more hehehehe.
The working lab does not sound like the ideal dog for a house proud person and I know my mum would struggle with a dog that enjoys the outside life to the full. She's really after a familiy pet so the show type might be her best for her.

Oh  I'm UK, south east but I can't find a southern club but managed to find several other area clubs that are worth contacting first for a friendly chat.

Many thanks again.

Stu

Another thing to remember is that chocolate/liver 'working'-bred labs are very thin on the ground - for whatever reason, working-gundog men don't rate them.

V True JG, blacks first, yellows second and chocolates a very poor third.

http://www.midlandcountieslabradorretrieverclub.co.uk/

http://www.kentsurreyandsussexlabradorretrieverclub.co.uk/

http://www.welrc.org.uk/

http://www.eastanglianlabradorretrieverclub.co.uk/

These links may help

Can I ask why the chocolate comes last? Is it because of the breeding/colour that is involved?
The other thing I was wondering about is the temperament.
Will a black or yellow have a more even temperament than a chocolate even if all are from responsible breeders?
The other thing is training. In general are chocolates harder work?
I hope you don't mind me asking these questions. I really have little knowledge on this breed and I really do appreciate the advice you are passing on to me.

Thanks kayc for the links (hugs). They are the ones I found on the net which I passed on to my mum.

Regards
Stu

This is only my personal perspective.

I find Black and yellow have very little difference, although I find yellows more laid back in attitude, both, I have found very similar to train.  Chocolates, however, tend to come from a much smaller gene pool, therefore the traits tend to follow through from gen to gen.  Of all the Labs I have trained Chocs have been the least easy and tend to mature around a year later than yellow or black.  Out of the dogs which I have personally taken and rehomed as rescue, the majority have been chocolate, and not all of them badly bred. 

While you should only look for a good and responsible breeder when searching for your Lab, I have to stress that this is even more important while searching for a good Chocolate.  They have become a fashion accessory and have been badly exploited to this end.  Although there are a few good breeders who specialise in chocolates and truly have the breeds best interest at heart, they are very few and far between.

Thanks Kayc

That's a great post, many thanks for posting. Hopefully my mum will not rush into anything but will take her time and find a loving companion to share her life with.

Regards
Stu

I'm in Canada and we researched Labs before getting one too.  I agree with Goldmali about the difference between Show and Working Lines (called bench and risers, or field-trial here, have no idea where the term risers comes from).  We were warned off the risers by Vets, hunting friends who had them and even the local field trial association as we wanted our Lab as a pet and DH no longer hunts.  The risers are leaner, high energy dogs and just too hot to handle.  Interestingly, here in my area at least, we consider English bred show Labs to be quite different from our own BEnch Labs.  The English are much heavier, stockier looking dogs, broader chests and low slung.  They seem almost ponderous compared to what I usually see here as a Bench dog.

Shortly after getting our female black Lab I read an article about the trainability of Labs.  It ranked trainability and ease of handling by colour!   Black the easiest, yellow next and chocolate the hardest to the point of being very difficult to work with.  I thought this was some kind of racism but when I mentionned the article to my VEt and the boarding kennel we use ( both see lots more dogs than I do) they agreed with the article, though of course there are exceptions.

An established, reputable breeder is your best bet.  Talk to Vets, boarding kennels and other dog owners and I bet you will find, as we did, that a few kennel names keep coming up over and over with positive recommentations.

Hi
Many thanks Jetstone for the advice.
I'm hoping she takes her time and takes as much advice as possible before deciding on the type of lab that would be better suited for her and her life style.

Many thanks again for all the replies

Regards
Stu

First I would say you shold contact the chocolate lab owners club, they should be able to answer your questions and are generally bery helpful, if a little biased to working dogs. Their details are under the breed club section of this site.

I have 2 chockies and have worked with a lot of other labs and would say that on the whole chockies tend to be slower to mature and so take a bit longer to train, they can also be stuborn and can have a wicked sense of humour. There are also a disproportionate amount of hip problems and weight problems, even of Labs.

To illustrate their sense of humour, Hook was doing a little fun agility and accidentally did a forwards roll in the tunnel, when he came out the same way he went in he got a laugh, so from then on he did forward rolls in the tunnel - great unless you are compeating :D :D  

Just to add something to the other comments you've received.  I've got a 7yo chocolate labrador, and she is the gentlest, most loving and most obedient dog we have ever had.  She's a show type rather than a working type and is absolutely beautiful.  I had her as a rescue dog though, so although she is a purebred I would not know who bred her.

Thanks Bluebell and Topsy for the info.

I've passed on the address of the club to mum and the contact details.
I forgot about the breeder section, slap on the hand for me :)

Many thanks again
Stu

really pleased to hear something positive about chocolate labs!  We are getting our first one in 7 weeks time.  I know she will be hard work, so Im mentally preparing myself for the worst - I have three kids to keep her entertained!

Just a quick update.

My mum decided on a little black lab and has found a good breeder who had a litter ready to find homes.
They went for a little boy this time and collected him last Wednesday and his name is Dobbin. He's very cute and adorable and the breeders given her a lovely puppy pack, video and lots of advice.
He has taken to his new home very well and Coco her other choc lab is in shock:) I don't think she can work out what the little black ball of fluf is all about.
The other day I popped over mums and Coco and Dobbin's where fast asleep together, it was just perfect.
How I wish my Newfie stayed a pup(the small black bundle I took home) a little longer, I just love pups.

Many thanks again for all your help and lab lover I bet you can't wait for the sound of small feet.

Warm regards
Stu

Aww bless and what a great name. All this talk of pups is making me feel broody :D Dont know why cos Truffle managed to jump up at someone as they bent down to pick up a poo so we are keeping a low profile in the village for now :D:D

I cant wait.  The only problem is the kids are driving my crazy!!  Its a lfetime of waiting for them.  Ive put up a calendar so they can cross off the days which are counted regularly:-).  No doubt I will be on here more often with my questions pretty soon.  Seems like a really good website and the best thing is the advice given is from people in the same situation.  I think we've decided on a name - Missy (the kids choice, its growing on us).  I wanted Beau, but didnt go down well....you win some, you loose some:-)