Hi Guys

Dessie here my account seems to have been taken off probably because I havent been on for so long.  I hope you are all well.

One of the girls that I work with has a Utonagn and was wondering if she could show him.  I can't find them on the KC Website but was wondering if they areon the Import/Rare Breeds Register?  Any help would be gratefully received.

Cheers

Dessie & Boys
Guernsey, CI

No, they are not recognised as a specific breed by the KC and therefore can only be shown at companion shows.

No, 'Utanogans' are basically a mixture of a lot of breeds, in other words mongrels! Don't let anyone try and convince you other wise.Unfortunately some people think they're something special and pay a lot of money for them when they could easily get something similar from their local dogs home and a lot cheaper! Hope she didn't pay too much for it!

No - they are not a breed

Hi Dessie, hope everything is well with you :) Utonagans are a crossbreed and not recognised by the KC :)

utonagan are registered with the utonagan society and puppies are sold with pedigrees. they are not yet registered with the KC so cannot be shown there. but we are having the first utonagan dog show this coming july, so registered utonagan can be show there
hope that helps

You will probably find that your post gets edited as you are not allowed to advertise a personal site on the forum :)

I had never heard of these dogs, but they are gorgeous looking animals :D

I saw some on a website recently and they are beautiful. they are not mongrels, there are quite a few breeders who are now breeding to a set type so i dont think its fair to call them that. Lovely dogs, the northern inuits are nice as well

quite alot of KC breeds are made from other breeds, i think they are a breed on there own right and from what i've seen alot of work has gone into them.

Lets be quite clear about this.  They are very expensive mongrels and many are still being cross bred with other breeds such as GSD's Mal & Sibes :-(  They are not recognised in any Country as a purebreed, nor are they likely to be in the near future, however many of the people who breed them can be very persuasive

Nods , and adding the word *wolf* to the description sure does suck lot of unsuspecting people in :( (NOT that all Utonagon breeders do this, but a lot do)

thanks Melodysk for the heads up! i did not realise, but do now, thank you!

You are welcome :p

I dont agree with them adding the wolf part, even if it is to call them "wolf dogs" because its false advertising and can mislead gullible people into thinking they have a true wolf hybrid.

To try and put things straight. 
Utonagan are a pedigree breed with all dogs registered with The Utonagan Society, and being sold with registration papers, pedigrees, insurance, etc.
Utonagan have no wolf content, and the Utonagan Society has not crossed in any other breed since 1 mistake in 1996.
They are not as yet a Kennel Club recognised breed, but that does not make them non pedigree.
We have recently been given permission to show them in open/companion shows and this is proving very successful, obviously we are thrilled and would love more Utonagan owners to get out there and get showing.

>We have recently been given permission to show them in open/companion shows

I don't quite understand this. Open shows are held under Kennel Club rules, and only KC registered dogs can take part.

Any dog can be entered in Companion shows - even a mongrel with the most mysterious of ancestry ... you don't need to get permission to enter ...

Hi Jeangenie,

Sorry I should have clarified.  We have been given permission to enter Utonagan into Pedigree classes at Companion shows.

Why when they are not a KC reg breed?  Or are they now on the Import list? :confussed:  I though only KC reconised breeds can go in Pedigree classes.  Otherwise why can't the lurchers and the Jack russels?

All I know is I entered my dog into Scruffts as I thought that was the correct place to start showing.  I then registered him at the Top Dogs show and the organiser phoned the KC and gave me permission to put my dogs in the pedigree classes, as they are a pedigree breed, just not KC recognised as yet.

So there has been no letter from the KC? and has not bee though General committee?  NOt that it's important though because TBH half the dogs in pedigree classes are just pets

What about the open shows?

Also just so I'm clear can you determine what you call "pedigree" please! :D 

No letter from the KC, I'm not sure how it works, but I was told that was all I needed.

As to pedigree dogs. 

Our initial crosses were done in the 80's, since then apart from 1 accident in 1996 Utonagan registered with The Utonagan Society have only been put to other registered Utonagan, and through much research as a lot of information was hidden I can now trace most lines back to initial crosses, and therefore can provide many generational pedigrees for all registered dogs.

However, please be aware that I am completely new to this so perhaps some of the other members of this group could correct me if I am missing something :)?

Pedigree dogs is different to each persons story, some believe it is KC reconised breeds others will say like you did! :)

I still can't personally get my head around how they can be allowed in pedigree classes.  I thought it was onloy open to KC reconised breeds.  Utonagan's are not reconised in this country and so don't have a breed standard.  Without a breed standard they cannot be judge to how close they appear to the standard.  And as a judge how would I know what's a good one from a bad one?  I personally would have no idea!  Are they reconised in any other country yet?

If I was taking entries at a companion show I would not allow one to enter.  What group are they in? (none because KC havn't reconised the breed!!!!!)  So you couldn't say wish class.

What's the difference between an utonagan, lurcher, and heinz 57?

Also how do you pronouce utonagan?  (I've only just learnt how to spell it!!!!) :D

Hello Ice_Queen,

Fair comment.

The Utonagan Society has a breed standard, unfortunately since taking over as chairperson I have come to realise it is severely lacking in detail and so it is currently under review.  As yet it has not been submitted to the Kennel Club, you are correct.
As to getting them recognised in any other country, according to the FCI they have to be recognised in their country of origin first i.e. UK, therefore the first society we need to approach is the KC.

I was lead to believe that if you have a non-recognised pedigree and you want to work to get it recognised that you should show them in the pedigree classes at these shows, and that that is how many newly recognised breeds managed to get noticed (so I have been told).

We are currently showing them in the Open group and my dog is still young enough to be in the puppy class.

I may be wrong but I thought that lurchers still had crosses happening and obviously Heinz 57 are generally straight crosses.

Utonagan in broad terms should look as close to a wolf as possible.

Oh, and it's U-ton-ar-gun ;-)

But what does a wolf look like when it comes to detail of eye shape and ear set and tail carriage! :D  This is all confusing! :D

I have no-idea how a breed gets reconised, I've came in on the aussies while they were on import register (and they were a breed in america for many years before.)  I went into red and whites once they had tickets!!!!!

I just can't get my head round them in pedigree classes when a judge has nothing to "compare" them to!!!! :D  I would think they are a sibe or a mal and a poor version of one of them!!! :D

As you do get more information about the breed dealing with the KC  for one would be interested to know.  Always keen to know whats happening!!! Yes in other words I'm a nosey cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was talking about the lurchers and heinz as they are non KC reconised but do have a name!  :)

And now I go tell people what the breed is called in confidence! :) thanks!!!!! :D

When we first brought the Spanish in we were not allowed to go into the breed classes at exemption shows only the fun classes as they were not a recognised KC breed, although they were a recognised breed elsewhere and have been for centuries, so I also don't understand how they are allowed in the pedigree classes at companionship shows, as we weren't allowed to until we got an interim breed standard.

For eye shape, etc you are very welcome to see the breed standard on The Utonagan Society website, however it is currently under review.

I'll be happy to keep you up to date on how it goes with the KC, but we need a lot more exposure first before we'll be ready to get KC recognised.

I don't understand how a Companion Show judge, who may or may not know all the Kennel Club breed standards, could possibly know what to judge the dog against??

I don't understand why this thread has been revived after nearly a year! The basis for grouping of breeds at Companion shows is that of the KC Regs for Classification & Reg. If a breed seeking KC Recognition hasn't even submitted a satisfactory breed standard, it cannot be recognised as a breed for show purposes and surely must be eligible only for novelty classes. There is no such thing as an Open Group, by the way :)

<<
Utonagan in broad terms should look as close to a wolf as possible.>>

Which wolves? Wolves vary massively in "look"

I have a post card with 3 black wolf cubs.  Arctic Wolves look very different to the Timber Wolf and then therre are different sub species in Europe in the Northern Countries and in Southern Europe.

hiya mate!
well i suppose more wolfy as opposed to looking like a mal, sibe or gsd!
just a guess i dont have a clue,but i suppose if you look at them & think a sibe cross  for example then its not breed type.

The one I saw looked like a GSD cross Siberian, didn't remind me of a wolf at all, especialy the skinny curled tail and the big ears.

that would NOT win then! ;)

Hope not, but I don't see why they are trying for a wolf lookalike breed when two already exist, the Czech and the Dutch Saarloos.  Yes I know they had wolf in their creation, but with under 25 years sicne it was started I doubt the Utonagan has the breadth of gene pool to breed solely within it's own ranks, so it will need more new blood and will need an awful lot longer to become a recognised breed, let alone breed to type when the standard hasn't even been decided upon fully.

Have looked at a few sites for these 'breeds' Brainless and have found that there is no fixed type yet.I know they are moving in the right direction but type varies greatly many looking like poorly bred GSD or huskys. It would seem there are some serious breeders who are trying to fix a type but others who breed from anything as long as it is registered with the utonagon society...as we know this does nothing for a breed that has been in existance for centuries so when it is done to  a breed that is trying to get recognition it is just helping things go backwards
Archer

Quite agree Archer! Can't see the KC accepting a breed standard which allows a 9 inch margin in the acceptable height either! I would think that any emerging breed does not need exposure but breeders who can demonstrate stability of type and a viable gene pool.

I've just been scanning the Kennel Club,'SCRUFFTS' website.  If you click on the inside link marked scruffts finalists, there is a picture of a Utonagan called Nanook.  I own a Sibe, and as such, i think this so called, 'Utonagan' breed is a bonny dog all round.  I just fear that sometimes we become a little bit snooby in our dismissal of new breeds as mongrels.  All current KC accepted breeds were once mongrels.  The current Bulldog problem outlines what happens when you pisds about with the gene pool.  Anyways, utonagan, or whatever, heres to a good looking dog.

Any dog...mongrel or pedigree can be shown at scrufts!!
Archer

Nope Archer, pedigrees are NOT allowed at Scruffts, ONLY crossbreeds. Just checked the website. :) (So that says a bit about utonagans perhaps!)

LOL.....maybe the utonagon owner didn't read the rules! :d
Archer

Or maybe they did! ;) :D

roflmao :D