Hi All

Can anyone clarify this for me ?. At Birmingham there was only one puppy entered in it's breed - the judge withheld all placings as it was too shy to be gone over and then did not declare a Best puppy in breed. I was under the impression that a judge had to declare Best of Breed and Best puppy irrespective of what they actually thought of the quality of the dogs. As this was the ONLY puppy entered in it's breed does it not automatically become the Best Puppy in it's breed.- am I right ?

Yvonne

Unusual, but I think the judge is within his rights to withold placings and exclude a dog if it cannot be assessed. A similar thing would happen if the dog had been aggressive and the judge had asked him to leave the ring.

I always thought that a Best of Breed and Best puppy had to be declared under KC regs irrespective of quality.

Yvonne

Sorry I might be being thick but if he withheld the placing then the dog was no longer in existance as far as judging goes so therefore he couldnt actually declare it best puppy.  If the dog refused to be gone over then he couldnt possibly assess the dog.

I think they can withhold it because when looking at the results on higham I have ocasionally seen withheld on some placings.

I would think it depended on whether the dog was excused from the ring or the awards were witheld (if the first 3 are witheld then no award can be made, but if it was given a first or second then it counts).

If the latter then I think it should still have been best puppy regardless of quality, if the first well a disqualified dog is as if absent or not there.

KC R&R F3.62.26.a.

Championship Shows Judged on the Group System
(Definition:Shows judged on the Group system-Refer Regulations F(1)27.b.)
(1)    Best Puppy in Breed
             A Best Puppy must be declared in each breed from the puppies entered in the Breed Classes

KC R&R F3.59.21.o.

Judges may exclude a dog from the ring if it is considered not in a fit state for exhibition owing to savage deposition & the exclusion must be immediately reported to the Show Secretary(my bold annotation)

KC R&R F3.59.21.n

An award may be withheld if in the opinon of the Judge there is a lack of suffiecient merit. The judge must mark on the judging slips that the award has been so withheld. When a judge withholds a Third award for want of merit, the subsequent awards in that class must also be withheld.

The award mentioned above is the the 1st etc not best puppy etc
.

Hmm, so that seems to suggest he could exclude it and therefore not award First or BP on grounds of being savage, but not just because it was shy. Interesting!

Hi Lucy,

It's because "savage" behaviour is the only disqualifying fault in a dog in the UK.  Under other overseas KC rules (FCI for eg) dogs can be disqualified for a multitude of reasons relating to how far removed they are from their own breed standard, missing dentition etc. 

Here, any faults be they physical or character (i.e. shy, nervous) can cause the dog to be withheld from but that is not the same as being disqualified

Regards, Teri

No the awards are the class placements & CC's(it isn't clear but that is what it means)even if CC's are withheld a BOB & Res BOB & BP decision has to be made Bizarre but this came up when a judge withheld both CC's at a show & didn't award BOB big todo about it & the judge got fined !!!

It's because I suppose the BOB etc don't count towards a title & CC's of course state the winner is worthy of the title champion !

I don't know if it still happens , but some Ch shows didn't have BP awards !

I thought nowadays they had to award Best Dog and Best Bitch if they don't think any dog there is worthy of a CC, and then would have to award BOB. Surely their stewards should have told them they should award BD and BB - although of course the judge has the final say even if they are wrong!

It was a while ago & I think it might have been in terriers & possibly a foreign judge

The Kennel Gazette is always full of great examples.  Disqualifications, fines on judges etc. I find it a great way to learn or see how the rules are put in practice.

There was one this week were I am sure 1st, 2nd, 3rd were withheld but res giving. Judge was fine £50.. ( Hope I have this right) :-D

If you withhold the first 3 you must withhold the rest.

Anyway worth a read.

What breed is that Trevor there was a hundred and six bullmastiffs at Birmingham and i can't believe there was two hundred and forty six rottwielers.  So that puppy must be a rare breed.

Warm regards Susan

Belgian Shepherd Dog (Tervueren)

ooo just noticed a friend got BB(no CCs) with her bitch

I'm confused folks ( not unusual ;) ) - are we saying then that this judge SHOULD have awarded Best Puppy as the placings were withheld but the puppy not disqualified ? - I'm having some heated discussions over this as the opinions seem split 50:50.

You're right about the entry for Tervs at Birmingham - pretty poor -but then there were no tickets - Groenendaels did better with an entry of over 70

Yvonne

I think so. Sounds like the judge was only allowed to disqualify the puppy if it had been aggressive, not shy. Don't suppose there's anything the owners can do to be awarded BP retroactively?

Yep odd but true that is supposing the puppy owners wanted to challenge for BP after their dog wouldn't be handled !there is no rule that makes it compulsory to to challenge for BOB, BP etc

I think it is because the BOB & BP award count for nothing in the dogs KC records whereas wins & CC's & Res CC's do count obviously