I am a complete show novice and recently entered my dog in a fun show. He is booked to start ringcraft next week and i thought this would be a good start. He immediately got knocked out and i didnt think too much of it as most of the people there had shown before and this was a first for both of us, however the judge came over to me after and said he thought that he was of high quality and a beautiful example until he was in relaxed state at which time his feet turned outwards. The little man had got bored and promptly sat down at my feet. He said until this point he was going to place him. The judge made no effort to explain his decision to anyone else who didnt get placed. However, this has put me off even trying to show, i know all dogs have faults but a lady who had overheard came over and had a look and said it was lucky we had bought him as a pet with those bones. I dropped out of the second match and spent while staring at his legs which only turn out when he is relaxed. If he was trained to stand properly would i still face these issues, i dont know wether to try or not now. Isnt it heartbraking when someone slates your baby. Do you think it is worth having a go, and do judges normally tell you like this becasuse i think i would rather have not known at this point and probably would have asked if we had been showing for a while and still not getting placed. Do you have to have thick skin or is the trick to not take it so personally or indeed to run if the judge approches you to explain?

Oh Stann, dont let comments like this put you off.  If we all listened to these there would be no dogs at dogs shows :(  Tia has been, too tall, too skinny, a flat coat (shes a Lab) needs bone, too much bone, and the list goes on.  happily we kept going and just before her 17mth she had all the points needed for her
Sh Cm.  Oh lord, paranoia can creep in, I am sure most of us have been there, (some of us still are) ;)  with Summer, the judge came over and told me she gave me reserve in minor puppy .."I love your little baby but had to place the others on maturity"  The following day at another show, she took 1st minor puppy, best puppy in breed and puppy group 2. 

Dont give up, go to your ringcraft classes, forget you ever heard these remarks and enjoy it. ;)

You are probably not going to like this but I think the judge was actually being nice taking the trouble to come over and talk to you.  Perhaps he believed your dog was nice and realised you were a novice so therefore wanted to tell you the reasons why.  I wish all judges would do this and at least then you would know why you were being knocked the only time you realise your dogs faults or qualities are when they win. Charlotte went to to ask a judge the other day why he had not placed her above another dog which was not as nice and he was most unhelpful.  As for the other exhibitor well I am afraid some people are not pleasant in showing. :(

I think your dog is around the same age as mine and her feet do lots of funnies.  Her back movement has improved now she has a front leg which seems to have a life of its own.  We have been showing her for a few months now and while she does have some lovely qualities I am afraid her movement is not going to be one of them and as what would once have been a working dog movement should be a major factor in placing.

I heard someone say at our first show with our dalmatian that she couldnt believe she had lost BPIS to someones pet bitch!  I didnt let it bother me and now we have the champion and hers is not. 

I agree with TtS ...the Judge took the time to come over and let you know. The best response would probably have been ' How can I improve?' ;)

it was just a bit bizarre that he only came over to me and no one else. And to be honest i didnt have a clue what he was going on about. i think i was more upset wit the ladies coment than his as i didnt really understand what he was saying but the lady was quite clear when she commented that it was lucky he was bought as a pet. To be honest i am probably more upset that he said it in front of others who made comments. Most of the people were absolute beginners and he didnt justify his reasons to them at all. I cant fathom either why people would be unfriendly at a fun show. Even if he had won it would have meant absolutely nothing in the show world, perhaps i just need to toughen up. i am visiting his breeder in a few weeks so perhaps she can have a look at him.

Did the judge have your breed ?

lol I had a beagle CC judge & breeder once tell me to sell my beardie puppy to a pet home as she was obviously rubbish & nowhere near show quality

Well sadly for him I took no notice & 4 years later made her up & my only reget is that he had died before she got her third CC he did know she got the other two though & never said anything

Sometimes judges will find a "fault"to explain why they didn't place a dog that should have been placed

Alot of dogs turn their feet out (standing ten to two is the command)  If your dog only does this while being lazy and is a puppy then I would not say this is a fault but was the dog being lazy (when relaxed) this also means with good handling you can make sure the feet are always straight by placing them! If you are going to a good ringcraft training then they will teach you how to watch for this and where to pick the leg up from to turn the feet in. 

For the time being keep encouraging to stand with this feet straight! :)  Hopefully bones will grow and tighten him up.

What breed is he?

I agree - the judge had intended to place your dog, and was giving you advice on what you need to improve on. Take him to ringcraft and they will hopefully teach you how to place his feet better, and you could do much better next time!

One of my girls is  2yrs and we havent been showing for long I'm a complete novice Ellie my 2yr old comes from  a good show line Ch after Ch and her father is a Us Can NZ Champion we though she may do well so decided to show her as well as puppy but she is only getting placed 4th and 5th so I decided to ask around and find out what the judges though of her .
I know a lady who shows and judges my breed and asked for her opinion well .....was I sorry I asked she told that Ellie had smaller head that she would like  her rib cage wasnt rounded enough and her shoulders wern't good enough I was mortified then she said of course this is in my opinion but dont tell her breeder I said this (who she knows and is a well respected breeder and top judge herself)so I contacted my breeder who I have always kept in touch with obviously didnt say who the other judge was but told her what her opinion was of my girl .
She is going to meet up with me and take another look at her and also her Mothers breeder to give me thier honest opinions  andthat some judges just dont like the type of beardie  that they produce so to ignore the remarks and carry on showing her .
Now my puppy who is 9m ...I entered her for few open shows and she did quite well so her breeder told me to enter her into the WKC which we did and then her pigment started to dissappear from her nose so I tought that was it as it iss an obvious fault anway talked to her breeder and a few friends on this site and decided to go for it anyway and shegot a third and qualified for crufts ! so there you go different judges different days so my advice to you would be carry on get as much advice as you can but from people who you trust and enjoy it.

Sorry if this is a bit long winded !!!!

~Roni

Thanks to everyone who replied, it just disheartens you to hear it, sometimes it is best not to know or to be told if you ask to be. I will go to ringcraft and see how he does.

OHHHHHH...don't be disheartened!:d.I would definately  have taken the judges points as a chance to learn....I always think its nice when a judge takes the time to explain something...If we aren't told we don't know! Lets face it if it hadn't been pointed out you may have carried on and she may have lost out in higher level competition because of it.This way you KNOW what the problem is and can keep an eye on things.You can make sure he doesn't relax when the judge is looking at your dog and can make the most of him.
You may find with time and hence muscle your dogs problem will correct itself
Don't give up....you will hear bad aswell as good about your dog as we all do .Use the information to your advantage!
Archer

Hi Stann keep in there the judge coming over is excellent in my eyes, uses are both novices and once you do it more you will keep looking at your dogs legs and fix them so there straight dont let anyone put you off, honestly keep going.  For the judge to say he's of good quality is very good ignore the woman who came over, my dogs legs some times look like this and i stood her for someone who is very experienced and he said i needed to fix her feet because she wouldn't get placed if a judge seen them like that, it's all experience keep in there.  Your only learning and i'm sure in a years time or more you'll be a dabb hand at it.

Warm regards Susan

As mentioned before please don't be put off.  Someone told me once that one of my setters had an extremely large head, and every time i looked at him i was sure that his head was getting bigger and bigger.  A little over a year later i was at a show where that same judge came over to me (and i waited for it) and said what a beautiful head he had, in fact one of the niciest she had seen for ages!!!!.  I was just speechless, i had spent months being paranoid about him and i was too chicken to ask if she remembered what she had said about him before.  I doubt that she would have as she showed no signs of recognising me or my boy.

So don't get paranoid like i did, hard thought it is.

I've seen your boy and he is lovely, the women who said "lucky you only bought him as a pet" knows nothing! He is just a baby and is still developing.

I really think on this occasion the Judge really liked him and was giving you a bit of advice as he can see Merlins potential.

I'm not a expert but he looked a very nice example of the breed to me and once you have done a few Ringcraft classes and gone to a few Companion Shows and get some experience you should do very well with him.

When you visit his breeder they will be able to advise you weather he is suitable to be shown up to Championship show level. It's always good to let the breeder know that you are wanting to show him aswell.

Definatley stick with it, I started out doing Companion Shows only doing the Novelty and Obedience classes as I didn't think Bert was up to standard and I wasn't that interested at the time. But at one show I went to the women running it said to me why don't you put him in the Pedigree classes he's a lovely looking Beagle and I was like do you think so? She said yes and went over him and pointed out a few things and gave me a few tips and advised me to buy a show lead and to go along to Ringcraft classes.

Remember sometimes with showing you will have an off day ( I had one recently ) and that dosen't mean your dog is rubbish. You never win all the time and sometimes the Judge just won't like your dog. So please don't be put off as once you get into it you will really enjoy it and you have started at the right place with joining the Beagle Club as they are always there to give you advice if you need it.

Stann,

If you're talking about the pup you bought in april then he's just a baby :)  with growth and exercise he should 'come together' and will probably be perfectly ok, puppies can stand very strangely at times :D  Its a good idea to go and see the breeder tho as they can tell you how their own line will develop. 

As for the woman :rolleyes: I have seen this happen to someone with a lovely Weimaraner at their first show.  A woman with a grotty weim (spotty, dirty and very badly put together) came over and said "what an awful bitch, I'd take her home now if I were you, she's really not show material"  and proceeded to point out why.  My friend was ready to go home but I persuaded her to go in the ring instead, she not only beat the woman's weim, she beat all the others and went 6th in best in show (Big open show, not group system) since then she's gained a RCC under a noted weim breeder, not bad for a reject :D

Don't let other competitors put you off, listen to the good and ignore the bad, unless you trust and value that person's opinion :)  and don't forget YOU always take the best dog home :D :D :D

Stick with it!!
I would say most people new to showing spend the first couple of years asking others what they think of their dog ( I know I did), and took it as a chance to learn.
If a person asks for an opinion on their dog, either face to face, or by entering under a judge (coz all the world over, you're then asking that judge for their opinion), they should not be upset if the person tells them the truth (as THEY see it - doesn't mean they're right). Otherwise, do people just want to hear all the nice things about their dogs, and not where they could improve? Just ignore people who may be downright nasty, but try to listen to those being constructive.
IMO Puppies are the most difficult to judge, as so much changes at different stages. Never write a puppy off, it could be a future champion, and the most promising youngster may turn out to be an overdone/ awful adult etc, if you get what I mean.
Different people WILL have different opinions of your dog, but that's what showing is all about. Different judges place more importance on one part of the breed standard as apposed to others. Some people in Beardies would NEVER put up a dog with a light eye, no matter how well constructed they are, or how well they move, that is their choice on the day. And that's just it, it's just one day. Another day, another show, another judge I always say!

Best of luck

Kay

Sometimes people will tell you a puppy isn't worth it because they don't know any better, and sometimes they will do it to stop you putting your dog in the ring and beating theirs! Even my friend, who is as fair as anything, told me my puppy wasn't really good enough at the moment, and she has been pulled out at a champ show and placed at a club open show. The difference in opinion was caused by my friend being very head orientated and the judges she went under presumably being more movement and body shape orientated. Just keep showing your puppy, even if some judges don't like him others will I'm sure!

  Id  suggest you had a  very caring judge who was offering advise, a pups front can turn out and continue to until its chest drops, filling the gap and tightening everything up, he obviously saw enough quality to offer you help, learn to place your dogs front,  a lot of pups need help in standing right, practise makes perfect  :)    we all had to learn and if you stick at it in years to some you will realise you where offered consructive and helpful advise, as to the  person suggesting your pup was pet quality without you asking they had no right, ignore it and toughen up dont take it to heart, accept critisicm if its meant to help, no dog is perfect but learning to do the best with the one you have helps.

Thanks you lot, you have made me feel much better. I think i was taken by suprise as it was a fun show and i wasnt taking it seriously, the others obviously were or else they wouldnt have commented. To be honest his legs do look funny when he is relaxed so i can learn by not letting him slob when he is being judged. We are visiting his breeder soon so we can get her opinion. I will tske him to ringcraft any way as i may be getting touchy to find that he hates it after this, which wouldnt be a problem as long as he is happy. Just first time offence taken as it was supposed to be fun. He is perfect to me anyway so no worries, but you lot put my mind at rest. I thought he would have been picked up on his height more than his legs as he is very tall. I understand that people are sometimes cruel and it would e lovely to beat that lady in a future show so we will see.