our nearly 5 months bsd pup..
.gives us a really hard time at night....

he doesnt fit in his crate .. and theres no point on buying a new onme because  he grows quite fast..

we cant leave him alone outside because he eats everything you can think of..

we cant leave him inside becuse he doesnt let us sleep and will of course shread the paper { he does it only when no one' wathching..}

we cant tie him up anymore inside because when he pulls and tries to swim up to us .,. its afecting his legs.. they are becoming disangled..they back knees of both his legs are colliding.. it is because of the slippery floor. the vet says to give him more calcium..

THEN WHAT TO DO ???

You have to remember that your pup is only a baby.  All that he's doing is normal behaviour.  He is missing you at night and chews/shreds paper because it makes him feel a little better by taking his mind off it.  ALL pups do this, yours is no exception.  What is stopping you from buying a larger crate?  If he is used to it, but has just outgrown it, then I would recommend one that gives him plenty of room.  He will only grow so much and then he'll stop and won't get any bigger, and you can rest easy at night knowing that he cannot destroy anything. 

>>we cant tie him up anymore inside because when he pulls and tries to swim up to us .,. its afecting his legs.. they are becoming disangled..they back knees of both his legs are colliding.. it is because of the slippery floor. the vet says to give him more calcium..<<

I am having trouble understanding this statement......"swim up to us"...... - please clarify.

As for the problem with his legs, Teri is a BSD person, and I am sure she will be along soon with some sound advice. :) Good luck :)

Hi Reggie,

Can I suggest you take Teri up on her offer to put you in touch with a Belgian person out there in the States :) ? I really do feel it would be helpful for you and Rubble to have someone there on hand.

I'm not too sure what you are meaning about Rubble's legs becoming disangled - but pups can have terrible trouble on slippery floors... it can damage their joints...if you do have a slippery floor, can you put down some cheap rugs (often sold in discount stores, kitchen rugs will do) ; ones with a rubber backing will help to give him some grip. If he's having a good food supplu, he shouldn't need more calcium - is there a specific reason as to why the vet suggested this? Calcium will not stop him slipping and damaging his legs

It sounds as if he is keen for company - Belgians are people dogs, but need gentle guidance on how to be confident to be on their own too ;)
This can take some time - have you tried shutting him outside at night and in various places? If so, he will be confused as to where to be and what to do.

Tell us your home set up as it may help us - is he downstairs whilst you are up in your bedroom? Or is your bedroom on the ground floor?

Are you in an apartment or a house? Do you have a garden?

Get hold of Ian Dunbar's puppy books - very helpful :)

Does Rubble have a kong to chew? All pups need chews and toys and a kong is great, it can be stuffed and keep him amused.

Lindsay
x

i know the calcium doesnt stop his legs from becoming disangled.. they just increase the strength of the bones .{ according to the vet}

i'll tell you 'bout my house its a one storey house we have a front garden and a back garden.
usually we are down at the ground floor but we take rubble to the terrace a few times a day..
he likes it there,..

It's the joints that are being damaged here, not the bones. To remedy this you allow the dog to be in a natural position, not being restrained by ropes etc. Slipery surfaces won't be helping. Your dog needs to be able to stand up and move and exercise to develop the muscles properly - these are what will help the joints form a correct position.

i mean swimming like he just pushes himself to come to us..you wont understand.. it is difficult to write and explain it , you see..

I gather he's feeling better now?

I advise puppy owners to purchase a crate the pup will fit in when it's fully grown - take up the spare space with a box or similar.  This is still an option for you.  Please NEVER tie a dog up when unattended - who knows what mischeif/damage they can do, especially to themselves :( 

With regard to his back legs - puppies do go through stages of appearing 'knock knee'd' so this may be one of those stages.

Hi Reggie,

Here's how these posts are going - to me, they started off a bit weird and careered rapidly downhill from there .....

You have a Bulgarian Shepherd - which after a bit of debate became a Belgian Shepherd - but it has a strange colour combination in that it's black but will turn out grey Can't happen - simple ;)  Your vet said its a BSD - in the US, the 4 varieties we have here are known differently and in fact only 3 recognised, and all as separate breeds.  So in the US a Belgian Sheepdog is and can only be black  While mistakes in the name of the varieties are common with vets in the UK, this is not the case in America - they are not even associated as being the same breed.  If your vet thought your dog was miraculously going to turn grey when black at 4/5 months then I'm thinking he's lost the plot or you have a completely different breed or cross breed from what you/we are being lead to believe.

That aside, all the offers of help here and of providing US contacts in order to offer more help have been ignored and getting a rough location from you has been like getting blood from a stone - Why?   After originally seeking help and worrying more than a few genuinely concerned posters on the forum you turned your attention not to the replies and queries raised but flung yourself with gay abandon into determining how to do and practice "smilies".

This latest post honestly doesn't make any sense - even reading between the lines at best I'm coming up with gobbledegook.  But in a last ditch attempt to believe that this hasn't been a wind up from start to finish I'll make the following suggestions:

1. Get a bigger crate - if you don't know what size to get, call the store or email the internet company, whatever, and tell them your dog is an adult Belgian Sheepdog and that you want a crate big enough for him to stand, turn, stretch out and lay flat out in comfortably.  If in doubt too big is better than too small.

2. I covered the "leaving him alone" in your first thread but in short, as a breed they don't like it.  They "need" human companionship and interaction.

3. The crate will sort out the times when he's left alone indoors - make minimal use for short periods.

4. I covered the tying him up in your first thread - don't do it - same reasons apply!  In short, it's dangerous to him, potentially will become dangerous to anyone approaching him and is cruel.

5. Slippery surfaces and dogs don't mix - if it's affecting his legs your vet needs to be more specific about what needs doing.  Short of watching a video clip I have no idea of the accuracy of your personal assessment but it certainly doesn't sound right - but vets make those diagnosis, not internet forums.

6. If he needs more calcium ask why, how often and in what form, how much & for how long.

> THEN WHAT TO DO ???

Go to this BELGIAN SHEEPDOG or  TERVUREN   and try to establish which type of dog you have.  If it turns out to be one of them, contact either of these good folks below in rescue who will hopefully be able to put you in touch with someone near you who can help.  Get help in person preferably by phone or via their email.    Belgian Sheepdog: Belgian Sheepdog Club of America, Susan Fielder, Raymond, ME; 207-655-7359; e-mail: blackstr@maine.rr.com  
Belgian Tervuren: American Belgian Tervuren Club, Cindy Simonsen, (262) 642-2286, Wisconsin; e-mail: n2tervs@netwurx.net

Additionally perhaps your vet can recommend not only a trainer but also a general overview of what is the most appropriate way of looking after your dog's physical and mental needs.

If this sounds terse and I've misjudged you I apologise unreservedly, but if you genuinely want help and you certainly sound as though you need it, following the above suggestions would be your best port of call - although you will have to be prepared to offer clearer, more detailed and accurate information to them than you have done here to date.

Good luck, Teri.

thanks teri..

i am really sorry. i admit it i dont know a shit about dogs.. i am not a dog lover. i dont hate dogs but i dont have that special love and interest  for dogs. but perhaps now i am interested in them .
i admit it - i dont know anything about dogs i hardly knew five breeds of dogs. but now its changed.
thats why i thought it was a bulgarian shepherd.

we've changed our vet. i wasnt at all satisfied with the old vet. he used to tell us rubbish !
i've got it clarified- the vet said that when rubble was small he was entirely black.. and slowly he would start devoloping the greyish colour.

if you ask me rubble looks like a GSD . most of our neighbours think he's one.

i had put up a few posts but there were no replies even after two to three days later. thats why i was doing "smiley" practice.
teri, i read each and every post in that forum . all were really great pieces of advices.
i know this is stupid but as i have told already  i am not an expert in dogs and in am just gaining knowledge about them.

real sorry teri, i know you must be thinking i am some stupid idiotic fellow... thats becuase i have no idea about dogs. and comparing my knowledge with yours would be like an elephant to a beetle.

you said that the latest post doesnt make any sense... yes.. maybe i agree to that.. it is a problem when you look at it from my side . i have just had my first dog and not even 2 months are over.. but for you who maybe keeping many dogs for many years it would ofcourse seem silly and make no sense.

i went to the site and it seemed quite that rubble is a tervuren. i dont know.. even if he's not i am not gpoing to ditch him or whatsoever.
i dont prefer in calling any number just like that.. but i am in contact with  some people who are related to the akc.

they mainly give information about vaccination, diet ect. not stupid things like what do do with him at night.

anyway teri...
thanks a lot for both.. trhe critisism and the help given .

really teri.... that was a bit harsh..
you obviously think that i must give rubbble back...
i am'nt treating the little guy soo badly as you say.. he is happy.. i just want him to be happier and i refer to you guys and all i get is a heap of harsh comments.

well i may be stupid  since i really dont know  anything as compared to you.. i am a first time owner.
it just seems like whenever i post a problem.. everybody turns on

me and i am not accusing you of anything .. just that it (B) was (B) a bit harsh..
and that you have misjudged me.

thank you.

reggie a full grown BSD will fit fine as an adult into a 24 inch wide x 36inch long x 27 inch high crate.  I would have got one that size in the first place,a dnif need be partioned half off whn really small.

Have you identified your breed yet Reggie and made contact with anyone locally as advised?

Have you stopped tying him up and bought a suitably sized crate for him?

Have you been back to the vet for more detailed info on the calcium issue and to have his "movement" assessed?

Regards Teri

I was wondering how things were going..... :)

Lindsay
x

thanks for bothering to know.:).. i have replied to teri about rubble's first night in his new crate. :(

we 've got him a 24 x 35 x 26 or something similar cage.
we got it yesterday and at night he was waging a war for going inside the crate. in the end after he went in we shut it and put it in our room. after some hours of barking he went to sleep and at about 3' in the morning he began whinning !!!!
we took him out of the crate. and let him free.

we've changed our vet and this vet also says like many of you already did that some puppies become "knock-kneed" and that it will become better soon before the age of one.

Hi Reggie,
Try and sell your cage, and put the money to buying  a larger cage.
I think this would be kinder to the puppy, and a lot more help for you.
You do need a  new cage.
Regards
Denese

"after some hours of barking her went to sleep..."

Oh dear.
Rubble was upset at being in the cage, is he used to one? I know he has had one previously, how was he with that, was he in it all night?

Crates in general need to be introduced very slowly so that the dog goes into them volunatarily, and sees them as a den.

IF a dog barks, don't keep it  in the crate as it will be very stressed - wait for a lull in the barking, even a few seconds, and get the dog out.

I know you are trying to do the right thing and are having problems with Rubble, so good for you for trying - but I still feel you need a BSD experienced person for help.

They are such wonderful, amazing dogs - but poor Rubble sounds stressed and I understand he still has this urinary infection. I would think you need some friendly support yourself :)

Lindsay
x

thanks

rubble was left in a crate when he was younger and after he grew too big for it we dint lock him in the cage and he was enjoying being not locked up. and when that day we put him into a crate all of a sudden he must have really been pissed off.

we are getting plenty of advices from others but the problem: whose to follow? one says do that while the othr says not to. too many cooks spoil the broth.

i look for the majority advice like if more than a few people tell me to do something for rubble.. i proberbly will.

i hope the UTI wont be very seriious because he's already taken antibiotic shots and still nothing is really better.. we'are taking a blood test on friday and then the vet's going to decide what to do.

i do wanto get in touch with someone whose experienced with UTI problems.

Reggie, try putting a post on the health board :)

You may find someone with experience of UTI.

Rubble probably forgot about being in a crate :P
Try introducing him slowlyl back into it; use his dinner, stuffed kongs etc and put them inside but don't close the door. Gradually he will get to like it. Over time you can start closing the door. If you search on here, you may find threads on how to crate train.

Lindsay
x

thanks for the suggesion i'm going to post a topic in the health board.