right I'm back again, without you lot I'd be completely stuck! 

Today, I took my dogs to the park (1 3 year old bitch, 1 6 month old puppy - recently neutered).  My puppy is incredibly nervous of other 'strange' dogs, whining, running back to me and aggressively chasing the dog for about 5 yards before crying and running behind my legs.  (He plays absolutely fine with my dog and my dog walkers dogs, although there are sometimes 'spats' but generally quite happy to roll about the grass with them all)  A small friendly dog that I often see over there came to say hello and as I bent to pet her Lubo went beserk.  He rolled the dog onto its back and snarled into her face.  I was appalled.  He now seems to have a 3 metre perimeter around me that no other dog is allowed to enter. 

To make matters worse, a drunk man wearing a very large mexican hat staggered into the park.  BOTH of my dogs circled him and barked endlessly. 

All training appears to go out of the window.  I myself lose any authority and spent quite a lot of time chasing after them while they circled out of reach and back to barking at this man.  They've also started barking madly at both of my neighbours whilst they are in the garden.

The barking appears to more fear based (or weirdly, if something changes in the landscape i.e a woman sitting on the bench who wasn't there before or someone who doesn't fit their idea of what is the 'norm').

I think I'm going to need professional help for them but has anybody got any advice  :(

Was the pup always a nervous dog??

Whislt you are waiting to see a behaviourist.

Walk them on a long line (horse lunge rein is good), dont let them off at all, just let the line trail (preferably from a harness not a collar).

Walk them seperately.

Dont reward or encourage fearful behaviour, ignore it, walk away -- not rewarding/encouraging includes shouting at the dog, as the dog can easily think that  you are ALSO barking at the scary thing. Likewise no 'there there its not scary', thats rewarding being scared/acting defensive.

Take lots of treats (or whatever gets each dog going) with you, stay well away from things that will trigger your dog, and reward when they can see the thing but NOT react, gradually you should be able to get closer.

Neutering can cause a drop in confidence, so you need to make sure whilst your pup gets used to the lack of hormones, he DOESNT experience scary stuff (and what he is doing is precisely what my now 5 year old dog does, for the same reasons). Reward for behaving as you want, dont reward for the opposite.

And see a good behaviourist!

Em

Well with my bully older dog always making sure he knows who's boss I guess he's always been a bit nervous - or maybe jumpy is a better word. 

I dunno, I love them both so much and moments like now, when they're snoozing together (Lubo with head on his favourite Winnie the Pooh furry toy) it all seems worth it, but I want to nip this in the bud, I need to know that I can be in charge of them out of the house and that other people and dogs will also be safe from their insistent high pitched barks...

How much are professional trainers and how do I find a good reputable one?

Hi Jodenice have you got a bullmastiff and do you show?

warm regards susan

Hi Jodenice -

It's not a trainer that you need, it's a qualified behaviourist.  There are lots of cowboys out there, so make sure your behaviourist is a qualified member of the APBC (Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors).  APBC members will only see you by vet referral, so you'll need to go to your vet and get a referral.  Just make sure the behaviourist is APBC...

There are no qualifications for behaviourists, however, both the APBC AND the UKRCB insist on assesement and high standards for membership.

Not sure what you mean by 'there are no qualifications for behaviourists' - I'm currently studying for one, and I know of several other well-reputed behavioural qualifications in the UK, the most well-thought of being an MA at the Uni of Southampton.

imo (and as someone who aspires to membership of both and so has checked out the requirements thoroughly), the APBC has more stringent requirements than the UKRCB.

I think what the poster meant was that you do not need any qualifications to call yourself a behaviourist, anyone can do that, and they frequently do, unfortunately.

there is a difference between the criteria demanded by the UKCRB and the APBC as the latter require academic qualifications as well as practical, empirical knowledge.

Unfortunately there are lot of courses that give you a piece of paper to people who have never even owned a dog, let alone had years of practical experience with all sorts of dogs...........

I can see a couple of thoughts here. I have a dog who is fine with other dogs unless I make a fuss of an 'outsider'. In his eyes that's pushing the limit. All dogs are acceptable as long as they ignore me and I ignore them. From what you say, yours is the same.
Regarding the man with the Mexican hat - was this the first time your dogs had ever seen such a thing? Another of mine was beside herself  when a friend entered the house wearing a motorcycle crash helmet. When he removed it ("OMG! He's taken off his head!!!" ) she nearly had apoplexy.

The first problem is down to possesiveness. The answer to this is to talk to the other dog's owner, not to the dog.

The second is a fear reaction to a strange situation. The answer is to teach your dogs that people wearing Mexican hats (or anything else unusual) is safe.

Hi Jodenice

Not much to add to Em or JG's excellent points except it may be some consolation on the following

>To make matters worse, a drunk man wearing a very large mexican hat staggered into the park.

to know that FWIW my breed and TBH a lot of dogs in general IME really don't like drunks - hats or not ;)  They dislike the strong smell of alcohol almost but not quite as much as they distrust the staggering, swaying and unco-ordinated approach of someone truly intoxicated.

Regards, Teri :)

ps I forgot to say, there is an excellent book on this subject with some solutions suggested, called 'Mine!  A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs' by Jean Donaldson.  YOu can order it online from Crosskeys:  http://www.crosskeysbooks.com/product_info.php?products_id=451

My dogs all bark at weird drunk people , maybe they just hate the smell beats me. My advice would be to have her on leash at the dog park for the first 5-10 minutes and bring her slowly to sniff other dogs , if she shows agression immedietly stop her and correct. Once she's met all the dogs then take him off lead and see how he is.

If she's showing agression because she's fearful, correction will simply prove to her that you are stressed too and that there IS something to be concerned about :(  She really needs to be socialised correctly, and that may take some time and needs to be done VERY carefully, under supervision of somebody experienced in these kinds of situations.

Thanks for all your replys, some of them very amusing (like the crash helmet one!) and you are right I can see two problems.  My older dog is happy to play with other dogs, no problems really unless somebody comes around who she doesn't like or who seems strange (I have to say, usually tramps, drunks or those annoying kids who wear hoods, caps and a scarf over their faces - she doesn't like them AT ALL, think its cos she can't see their face).

Alas she's teaching my puppy all these things and he's already got his own little box of problems, possessivness of me with other dogs (she's MINE), fear of bigger dogs (watch him run) and a general love of barking at anything that moves....

So I should take them both to the vets, get a recommendation and also try and remedy the situation by jumping out on them wearing an assortment of hats, scarfs and unusual outerwear that they may encounter (this could take months, I live in North London!)....

If your pup is nervous as it would seem from your comments then harsh control and management methods will only make matters worse.  What he needs is the confidence to meet and greet other dogs and that is what the workshops offer.  It also teaches you how to read not only your dogs body language but that of strange dogs so you can avoid dogs that may have issues and keep your dogs safe and happy.  If your puppy is already guarding you from other dogs then it is quite possible that as he gets older this will progress to guarding you from everything.  I personally feel that if I want to talk to people or dogs when out my dogs should accept that as my choice - not theirs - if your puppy is already trying to drive other dogs away then this will get worse unless you can deal with the problem.

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>A small friendly dog that I often see over there came to say hello and as I bent to pet her Lubo went beserk. <

I wouldn't be too quick to assume that this dog is guarding you, as such.  If she is nervous of other dogs, perhaps she just doesn't want them near her.  As you "bent to pet" the other dog, she could have wrongly interpreted this as an aggressive move by you, which backed up her already existing feeling that there was a threat and tipped her over into taking action.

Just a thought.  Ditto to what has already been said about harsh methods not working on a fearful dog.

Sorry, that should have been 'he' throughout, not 'she'.

Ok took them to the park today and a dog started to lazily gallop towards me wagging its tail. It didn't get to me however as Lubo went flying through the air to stand in front of me and bared his teeth and actually went for the dog.  I obviously just got their leads on quick smart and took them home but what do I do now.  We have got some money on our credit card (but only a little so I need to choose the right option!)

Do I find a training class, build up Lubos confidence (which is lacking when other dogs are nearby, he starts whining and trying to run between my legs) and run the risk of him attempting to bite any other dog that comes near me? 

Or do I go to a behavourist first?

Or do I do something else?

:(