Our breed standard reads:

        Colour:
        Definite black, brown, blue or fawn (Isabella) only,
        with rust red markings.      Markings to be sharply
        defined, appearing above each eye, on muzzle, throat
        and forechest, on all legs and feet and below tail.
        White markings of any kind highly undesirable

This should be clear to anyone - the colours of our breed are Black, Brown, Blue and Fawn (Isabella) rust red markings.  Apart from stating that white markings are highly undesirable, white is not mentioned.

In fact these so called "white" dobermanns are actually albinos, and yes, albinos can and do have blue eyes as well as various, well documented, health problems.

All albino dobermanns are descended from one bitch Padula's Queen Sheba, born in America in November 1976.  She was mated to her son (who was also mated to his sisters) to produce more albinos.  This is not a correctly "coloured" Dobermann.

Various misguided people in the USA have been specifically breeding these dogs and sadly we have a bitch and her albino and "normal coloured" but albino factored descendants in England who are now being bred and passing on this gene to their unfortunate offspring.

People who care about our breed - not their own pockets or the novelty value of having something "different" (and defective), would not even contemplate breeding albino dobermanns. Responsible breeders look to the future and try to produce puppies which are healthy, as close to the standard as possible and will make good, reliable companions. Please remember this if you are considering purchasing one of these "rare" Dobermanns and know that in the US make up a very high proportion, compared to the numbers being bred, of the Dobes in rescue - I wonder why?

You will also find that most reputable breeders in this country do not deliberatley breed the dilute colours (blues and fawns) due to their coat problems. These colours are normal Dobermanns and do not have the sight, skin and behavioural problems associated with the albinos but it often follows that the people who breed the diluted colours deliberately also breed albinos - makes you wonder whether they care about the dogs or their pockets the most?

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Fawn Dobermanns have rust markings and brown eyes, noses and lips. White (albinistic) dobermanns may have sandy or light fawn coloured bodies but they have white markings, pink noses, lips and pads and blue eyes. There are many types of albinism, not just the one that appears in rodents with pure white fur and pink eyes.

No reputable or conscientious breeder would use one of the albinistic or albinistic factored dogs in their breeding programme and therefore would not have any albinistic puppies who can all be traced as descending from Padula's Queen Sheba.

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Should anyone be concerned that the dog they wish to use, or the bitch they are thinking of purchasing carries albinism please contact me and I will check for you as I maintain a Dobermann pedigree database. I can only go by the KC registrations - if someone has falsified these then my (and the KC's) data would be inaccurate, but DNA testing is available to prove parentage.

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There is available a comprehensive web site that I would very strongly suggest you take the time to read, follow the links and digest thoroughly, whatever side of this argument you are on you will learn a lot from this site - it is at

http://whitedobes.doberinfo.com/

I would like to thank its creator, Dr Ione Smith DVM, for taking the time and effort to put all the information on her site together - I consider she has performed a great service for the Dobermann community world-wide.

      
    

Advert
For Sale
Adorable White Escorts

These vehicles have been mechanically modified to ensure they will encounter various problems during their lifetime with you but as you have so much money to spend on my "little novelties" this will not be a problem - will it?

These lovely little models may run slightly better at nighttime as the sun may cause malfunctioning and directional problems and the bodywork may blister in the rays.

The unusual blue headlamps create wonderful "novelty" value and a "talking point" for their owners whilst ensuring reduced vision whever these cars may go?  The wiring within the vehicle is not quite fully connected thus enabling problems when least expected.

i can almost guarantee these quirky little rareties will not last as long as "The Real Thing" but as you are stupid of ignorant enough to be taken in by my prose I'm going to call my "machines" Rare and charge you Doble.

Oh, by the way, there is no back up or money back should anything go wrong
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Would you really by the car above - of course you wouldn't unless you had more money than sense which I doubt would be the case!

Then why even consider purchasing a white dobermann - which are actually albinos?  As you know, of course, albinism comes with various built in problems.  Lack of melanin in the body can (and does) result in no protection from the sun, leading to skin cancers, problems with internal organs, vision being defective, the "connectors" in the brain not being fully operational which, along with the defective vision can (and frequently does as the dog gets older) cause behavioural and aggression problems.

These albinos may look sweet but please remember that REAL dobermanns are Black, Brown, Blue or Fawn and rust - not white!

"We DO NOT support the BREEDING/PROMOTION/AMALGAMATION etc. of white/albino dobermanns and dobermanns with albino ancestry. We concur with all statements regarding this subject as composed by KERIOAK dobermanns"

Signed
REMALIAH DOBERMANNS

I fail to see the novelty value in owning a (albino) dog which you know is going to face a (short) lifetime of ill-health, extortionate vet fees etc. 

Working with breed rescue (Dobermanns) there are more than enough healthy Dobes to find good homes for let alone trying to home an albino with a short lifespan and guaranteed health problems.

I most strongly object to the breeding of albino Dobermanns and from Dobermanns with albino ancestry.

Amanda J. Houstoun
Rescue

The Doberman Pincher Club of America (DPCA) have a longevity scheme which lists Dobermanns living longer than ten years.  The White Doberman club in America (I do not know what it is called these days) also started a longevity scheme with their dogs being eligible at 7 years of age.

Thank heavens that there are all you responsible Dobermann breeders around! :)

But I feel so sorry for the average family looking for a pet and who have absolutely no idea about the seriousness of breeding unethical "rare" (thank heavens) white Dobermanns.:(

Thanks for that Kerioak, more people in the UK need to be aware of these, ahem, "white" dobes and their problems so we don't end up with as many as the US.  I've seen the website for the one albino breeder you mentioned - apparently she's done 5 years' worth of research and determined that they are just white, not albino.  Can't help wondering where she did said research!  She was also very proudly showing off the "first 5 colour litter in the UK".  *shudder*

Fortunately I've only seen one albino for rehoming - a 3yr old male, very nearby to me - it seems pessimistic, but I dread to think what people he's with now, given his novelty value.  I'll admit I'd have taken him on if I could - I have no issues with rescuing them, but puppies - no way.  These poor dogs shouldn't be bred at all, and the more people know about them the better.

Good on you, let's spread the word!

Sorry to go slightly off subject, but a couple of months back was speaking to a woman who had a Blue Dobe and i havent ever seen a Blue one before, just wondered if anyone had any pics or links to one??

I've heard of albino Dobes and I've looked at websites both for and against the breeding of them. I really don't know how people can be so ignorant as to continue breeding them, and how can they ignore all the problems they get? They're just ignorant people with £ signs in their eyes *sigh*

I 'Know' someone with a white dobe ...and he's lovely ..shan't comment any more  

No one says the individual dogs are not lovely but would you deliberately breed a dog with known, and obvious, problems?

Can we not just live and let live ?? there's enough prejudice  in the colour of people let alone dogs !....and yes...... I know albino people too  and I certainly would not  dare to tell them whether to have children or not .

No right-thinking person deliberately breeds handicapped dogs.

Catweazle, are you really saying that if we criticise people for knowingly breeding dogs who are doomed to a life of health problems it is because we are colour prejudiced?

With the factual info provided on this thread, that statement beggars belief :(

I wouldn't purposely breed them, (not that I breed anything yet!) but would be interested to see a picture of an albino Doberman, I can't imagine what they look like without black or brown bodies!! :-)

Hi Lucy

There are pictures of albino Dobermanns on this site
http://whitedobes.doberinfo.com/
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Hi Catweazel

I (used) to know albino people as well - one of my ancestors and some of her siblings - and no way would I search out a "mate" with albinism in his ancestry in an attempt to reproduce the problems such as v. poor sight, learning problems and still getting skin cancers in spite of spending most of their lives avoiding the sun and staying well covered up in it. 

However, human albinism is not what we are discussing here but albinism in Dobermanns and from your comments I can only assume that you are in favour of their deliberate reproduction?

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The trouble is not only the albinos but their coloured offspring - there are so far at least registered 129 descendants from the first albino bitch bought into this country in whelp in late 1999, and of these 9 are albino.  This leaves 120 black, brown, blue and fawn descendents, some sold to people who apparently were not aware at the time that there were albinos in their ancestry.  As this goes on no doubt other people will start breeding some of these "normal" coloured dogs and spread them further and further around the dobermann gene pool thus potentially damaging it even further.

No Christine I'm not in favour of their deliberate reproduction -I just hate to see the same people singled out every time White dobes are mentioned -and I'm not talking about breeders -just ordinary peeps . I'm not going to get into the why's and wherefores of it with you -I know you do your research well ,  I probably shouldn't have answered your post in the first place . But not everyone with a white dobe has got it as a 'novelty pet'  or a money making machine  thats really the point I was trying to make  ( but obviously didn't make it well )

Hi Catweazle

I deliberately do not mention names but at present there are a fairly limited number of people who own/breed albino dobermanns and their (probably) albino carrying siblings which may be why you feel the same people are singled out. It is not my intention to single any individual out.

It would be preferable it if ownership stayed to that very limited number of people that simply owned, without reproducing, these Dobermanns but sadly that is unlikely to be the case so by starting threads such as this my intention is to give potential owners that read this board information on them and why I for one feel they should not be perpetuated.

Thanks for the link, they don't even look like dobermanns!

How come the breeder on the site previously mentioned can register these white dobes? I always thought that white markings of any kind were undesirable.

In most, if not all, countries with kennel registeries if a pup comes from two registered parents then it can also be registered - also in countries that have recriprocal registration agreements

They are highly undesirable but this does not prevent them from being registered.

there is a lady near me that breeds them they all have terrible skin problems and flaky temerments.....POLICY OF THE DOBERMAN PINSCHER CLUB OF AMERICA
REGARDING THE ALBINO DOBERMAN

After investigation the Doberman Pinscher Club of America has determined that the albinistic trait in Dobermans is deleterious to the breed and should be considered a disqualifying genetic fault as described in the Doberman Pinscher Club of America's Standard and the Code of Ethics.

We discourage our breeders from allowing this trait to spread and recommend the following:

Albino specimens, the parents of albinos, and the litter mates of albinos, SHOULD NOT be bred. All of these dogs should be spayed or neutered and given limited or no registration.

No, that's what I thought too. A few are quite nice looking, but the site mentions the health problems too of course.

I went to a special school for the Partially sighted in London.  There were more than half a dozen Albino students in a xhool of less than a 100 pupils aged 4 to 16.

Most of them were from white European parentage and one Afro Caribean.  They all had very poor eyesight, which is why they attended this school.  Most of them also had very sensitive skin which would burn and blister even in mild sun.  Maybe it was coincidence but several had what today would be classed as ADHD.

To all lovers and owners or potention owners of my beloved breed the dobermann,as an owner/breeder of twenty-three years i would like to state that I am totally against the breeding of white(albino) dobermanns for any reason though unfortunately this is mainly for profit and with a  lack of regard for the breed generally. Please everyone take time to view websites/info christine has mentioned. regards Odette Ryan-Hoare Jimbaros dobermanns surrey.

Seriously, anyone with a pic of a Blue Dobe???

Put "Blue Doberman" into google and search 'images' .....it came up with lots of pics!! :-) HTH

Edited to add.....or cut 'n' paste this 

http://www.dpca.org/Photos.html

I found this.

Found this whilst scrolling through the images..... It's sites like this that people believe :(

http://whitedobermans.freeservers.com/

I always wondered why some dobes have floppy ears and others ears are pointing up......do they need to be taped up like some of the pics on that site??

No they have their ears cropped (part of the ear flap cut away) a practice that has been banned in then UK for well over a 100 years.

Oh....i wish i hadnt asked now. :-( I dont like ear-cropping. :-( I think their ears look MUCH better floppy anyway!! :-)

I described the provess of ear-cropping to someone yesterday, she was absolutely horrified and glad she lives in the UK!  I like the look of it myself, but not the process - I could never, ever do that to a pup.  I'd much rather they enjoyed running around with big floppy ears than with rigid, taped ears while they're pups!

Please can we keep this thread on topic :)

Sorry Admin.

sorry admin!  I get distracted too easily :D

To anyone who may be considering breeding from their bitch it is essential that you check your pedigrees to see if she has any connection with the white gene.  Having been involved with the breed for over 20 years I find it hard to believe that anyone could knowingly try to produce an animal which can be affected with the serious health problems connected with the white dobermann, heaven knows we have enough problems to deal with already without purpously producing animals that will suffer.  We all know that the odd puppy will be fine but in turn that then can still produce puppies with these defects and health risks.  If in doubt you only have to contact Christine at Kerioak and she will soon be able to advise you if you have any potential risks within your bitches pedigree (or the potential stud for that matter) and this will enable you to make an informed decision about the mating.

As someone that has loved the breed of Dobermann's for well over 20yrs, i mean no offence when i say people who are considering breeding from thier dog or bitch really need to research what they are doing as unfortunatly it really isn't as simple as i've got a nice dog you have a nice bitch lets have puppies! When i first heard of white Dobemanns i was fascinated as had never heard of this colour before but on reading about them on the web and the problems that occour would never consider haveing one or even one that had white genes in its breeding. I assume most people on this site are dog lovers and can't understand why anyone would get a dog with a very high risk of your beloved animal suffering various illnesss and all the pain and suffering involved for both the dog and yourself.
Dogmann

I have had Dobermanns for 23years and no one in their right mind would want to produce these poor animals, you cannot call them Dobermanns because they are not, they are mutations, the only reason they are being bred and that is for the money.

Thanks guys!

Having Dobes for 28 years, I can't understand why anyone would want to produce dogs with obvious health problems.  There are enough problems in the breed that good breeders are trying to stamp out with selective breeding, without people deliberately producing puppies with health issues, it's downright irresponsible!  The KC do put letters after the registration to show that they have white in their pedigree, but they still register the puppies, even though the colour is not recognised.

Pauline Hart Hartridge Dobermanns

I think the breeding of white Dobermanns is just plain greedy. To actually knowenly promote bad health into any dog is just so cruel. I hope this all stops.   

I have a Dobermann who has lots of health problems(Black and rust) and at times its heartbreaking when she gets ill as we dont know if the vet will be able to do anything for her, so I cant for the life of me think why anyone who cares about animals would want to breed dogs that would end up with lots of problems. Thank you Christine for bringing this to peoples attention.
Mary

I thinks its absolutely disgusting and to think these breeders actually say they love the breed, impossible!  I have read on another forum of a white Dobe that has been bred from and she is DEAF!  Not only that, way out of control and has to wear a pinch collar in order to control her!  One of the puppies who is owned by the poster, is deaf in one ear, god only knows what the others were like and if they ended up in responsible homes.
Dawn.

To be fair, a dog who's deaf in one ear only is perfectly all right as a pet, but of course shouldn't be bred from. It should go without saying that a dog with a hereditary handicap which affects its natural quality of life (such as total deafness) should never be bred from.

Deafness is not generally thought to be associated with albino Dobermanns so it was probably caused by a different problem.

This is about deafness in white cats but also explains why albinos have eyesight problems.  Pigment cells are found thoughout the body, not just on the skin

There is an established link between the white coat color, blue eyes and deafness. The *tapetum lucidum is generated from the same stem cells as melanocytes (pigment cells). The blue eyes in a piebald or **epistatic white cat indicates a lack of tapetum. Deafness is caused by an absence of a cell layer in the inner ear that originates from the same stem cells.

*The tapetum lucidum (Latin: "bright carpet") or tapetum is a reflecting layer behind the retina of the eye; it serves to reflect light back to the retina, increasing the quantity of light caught by the retina. This improves vision in low light conditions but can cause the perceived image to be blurry from the interference of the reflected light. It is found in many animals, particularly nocturnal animals with good night vision

**When one gene masks the expression of another. If mutant a gives phenotype A and mutant b gives phenotype B, and if the double mutant ab gives phenotype A and not B, then gene a is epistatic to gene b.

Still Christine, she has blue eyes and is deaf in both ears and was bred from and has produced deaf puppies to a brown and GOLD male!  Doesnt make it any more right does it?
Dawn.

Hi Dawn

No it does not make it right, just provides yet another reason why she should not have been bred from.