Some weeks back I watched a Dispatches programme about supermarket Meat and where it comes from.
Not sure if it was discussed on here or if anyone watched it, but I am now

I have been buying all my veg from the local farm shop for quite a while now nad ever since that programme have been buying my meat from local butchers.

I have found a local farm who rear and slaughter on site and sell it in their farm shop.  The beef is home reared and the lamb and pork is sourced from local farms.  I have been buying tyhis for a while and the taste and texure is far superior to any supermarket brought meat.

HOWEVER, i went yesterday to pick up my order and noticed their chickens.  According to the dispatches programme, the brown scaley marks on the legs are due to a condition called 'Hock Rot' which means they have been grown on too quickly and end up crippled and unable to move about which causes this disease.  These chickens from this local home reared farm all had these brown scaley marks :(

I read some leaflets they provided and although it says the beef/pork etc is home reared, it says the chickens come from a farm in suffolk!! :( 

So do I avoid buying these chickens, Is it right that these brown marks are due to hock rot?  If it is, It suprises me that this farm who advertises itself as a home grown quality meat provider is buying chickens from somewhere where the standards may be unacceptable.

Sorry if this post is a bit long and rambly :D

Ali

Ali,

I totally agree and understand your confusion on this, I suspect that these chickens have been raise in the same terrible condition.. We have been buying organic OVER PRICED chickens since the show.  In addition to the chicken over growning quickly it was the cramped space , meaning it was sitting in the urine etc :-(  It was the round red mark that was the indication is that the one you mean. 

I haven't found a supplier of "free range" chickens yet other than Super market Organic but am in the process of trying myself as I was deeply shocked by that show.

I guess it is like anything you have to read the small print and his says they are not grown on his site so they could be coming from anywhere :-(

Im not really sure.  Is is always a red round mark that is the indication?  Are the brown marks normal?

Its amazing the power of Television :(

Although you know these things go on, until you actually see for yourself it is totally unbelievable.  I too was so shocked at this programme and now I don't buy meat in any way shape or form from a supermarket.  To be honest I didn't even think to look at Their  organic range of chicken.  I will have a look next time I go.

The mark I look for is what I would compare to humans with Blisters on their heels. Does that make sense?? :-)

I think we mean the same thing :-))

After the show I made a point of checking the supermarkets, I was in Morrisons, Asda, Sainsbury, Tesco.. I couldn't believe my eyes. They all had then and a huge percentage. Asdas ALL had them.

LOL :D

I did the same!!  I spent hours inspecting the chicken aisle!! :D  Suprised they didn't throw me out for loitering!! :D

I make a point of buying all my ham from a butcher's - I have done since 2001, after I saw a similar show all about the battery animals trade.  I shudder to think of it, I saw it again on my animal management course last year and it strengthened my resolve.  The butcher's I buy from use only free range meat for every type they sell, and I trust them.  The dogs appreciate the good quality bones, too :D  I do buy chicken free range from tesco's.  I didn't know about the leg marks though - I'll be looking in tesco's next time I buy there!

I only buy pig products which have been 'grown' in the UK - free range organic when I can get it. I won't buy 'EEC-produced' ham, bacon or gammon - simply because of the welfare issue.

>a condition called 'Hock Rot'

Hi Ali,

it's called "Hock Burn"  if you want to Google for more info. :-) 

You could tell the farm shop you're concerned and ask them what conditions they are reared in (assuming you trust them to be truthful, of course) :-)

Kath.

Hi Kath :)

Thanks for that, I couldn't remember what it was called.  I nearly asked them yesterday but chickened out :rolleyes: no pun intended! 

I would like to think I can trust them.  They are a well respected local farming family, I just don't understand why, when they rear the other animals the way they do, that they would buy chickens from these kinds of places.

I think I might email them and ask.

Ali

Well, I have sent them an email.  Will let you all know their reply!!

Thanks, it'll be interesting to hear what they say.   :-)

Good idea to email, I'm not brave enough to ask face to face sometimes either. ;-)

I'm not sure where you are but Farmer's Choice deliver free range chickens which have been reared until 12 weeks (usually 6).
They also aren't fed any growth promoters, antibiotics or hormones.

Im in Cambridgeshire :)  Will do a search on google.

Thanks :)

Had a look on the site, unfortunatley we are way out of the area! :(

K Johnson & Son (8 West Street, Oundle, PE8 4EF) deliver free range chickens in the West Cambridgeshire area - is that any good to you? :)
You wouldn't think it would be so hard to find somewhere local that supplies free range chickens.

Thanks for that :)

I will give them a ring tomorrow.  I still haven't heard back from the local farmer I emailed!

Ali

Wow, I have received a reply from the farmer

Thank you for bringing your query to my attention, let me reassure you that the chickens are not reared in appalling conditions.  Our chicken suppliers rear their own chickens in excellent conditions under a farm assurance scheme, they then process the meat themselves, thus they have complete control over their products.  As to the brown marks on the legs I will contact them on Monday morning to find out exactly what they are and I will email you again on Monday.  I hope this is of some help to you.

I look forward to her reply on Monday!!

>Our chicken suppliers rear their own chickens in excellent conditions under a farm assurance scheme, they then process the meat themselves, thus they have complete control over their products.

I wonder if they've actually visited their suppliers or are just taking their word for the conditions. Farm assurance schemes aren't always  what they're cracked up to be, most chicken in UK supermarkets is produced under the Assured Chicken Production Scheme (90-95% according to DEFRA though I've seen other figures quoted). :-(  That's not to say all Assured chicken is badly produced but I think it's more down to the farmers own standards than the assurance scheme. ;-)

Yeah, I seem to remember on that programme that the farms that were featured were part of the Farm Assurance scheme.
That gives me no reassurance whatsoever :(

farmassurance scheme= pi** in the wind in my book :(
There are two likey answers here:
1) the chap (farmer) you spoke to probably isnt a poultry farmer himself & is not aware of husbandry methods/standards. "Free range" means very little on a commercial scale I am afraid :(
2) they could well be genuine scale marks or marks from handling the carcass. i have been rumaging in freezer looking at our home grown birds legs since reading this post.....they have about 10 birds to the acre here :) & although they live highly stressed lives (foxes/badgers/9 hounds etc. :) ) they sure as heck arent crammed in anywhere!!! But They also have marks on their legs!!!

Unfortunately Hock Burn although due to birds sitting in their own urine too long is more to do with breed than conditions or method of rearing.  Chickens have been crossed to produce birds that mature early ie 6 wks ready for the consumer but the down size of this rapid growth is their legs can't support their massive weight ergo they end up walking on their hocks rather than just their feet so the hocks as well as the feet are constantly on the ground getting wet and burned.

Personally I prefer traditional old breed birds for meat production but obviously they take longer to grow to killing size but they are healtier to eat as they gain more muscle than fat due to the slower growth rate.

Yeah, it was amazing when they performed liposuction :D on a supermarket chicken and a free range one, how much c**p and fat came out of the store bought one! :(  The difference in flesh and skin colour is pretty amazing too!  It certainly opened my eyes :(

LOL Sam :)  Your chickens sound as if they have an awful lfe ;) :D

Reassuring to know your chickens have marks on them,  maybe I just need to try and find piccies on the web which will show me *normal* leg marks and hock Burn marks.  There must be an obvious difference.

I understand your reation to the Farm Assurance scheme, sounds a load of bull to me too :(

I also think you are right that the farmer I am buying my meat products from.  They have always raised Cattle/Pigs/Lambs etc but have never raised chickens.  I shouldn't blame them for being unaware  of poultry farming methods.  I have been with horses my whole life but that doesn't mean I profess to know anything about cattle etc, so I will give them the benefit of the doubt.  Also their meat is second to none, so I will be caryying on buying from them.

I will find out more on Monday about the chickens when she emails me back. 

I bet there have been a few people looking through their freezers since reading this post!! ;)

For those that were interested in my chicken problem :D I have an update........

This is the email I received from my local farmer today..

I contacted our chicken suppliers and the brown marks that can be found on some of the legs are from the plucking phase - apparently the skin of some breeds reacts diffently from others causing the marks which you were concerned about. 

I hope this has reassured you that our chicken is reared properly.  It actually took me two years to find a chicken supplier that reached a standard of animal welfare that we were happy with and which was also of excellent quality.  Animal welfare is of utmost importance to us - happy animals produce tasty, quality meat and we actively encourage our customers to look at our animals on the farm.

If you have any more queries regarding our products, please do not hesitate to contact us as we like to deliver a personal service to our customers.

Following that email and what Sam said I feel assured that sometimes these marks are normal :)

balibee, their answer leaves me wondering.....these marks, are they above or below the hock? I below then I would doubt their answer as there is nothing to pluck below the hock unless they are a rare breed like a cochin or something, which I very much doubt!!!

I generally hold the legs when plucking - perhaps it's bruising?

Sam :)

I am off to restock my freezer this weekend, so i will check what part of the legs the marks are on.  I hope they are genuine :(  It will be a shame if I have to look elsewhere. 

Ali

Safeway have suddenly brought in free range chickens.. Saw them last night. Not a sore in sight.

PS there are quite a difference in the marks Ali. I saw a load of pictures after the show. The hock burns are so much noticable.  I personally think these can't be caused by handling as they are on the heel. INHO :-) but agree you can get marks etc as normal.   The hock burns you can spot and are deep.

I get free range chicken from m and s,welfare assured and british,i never buy any imported meat.

Sheila.

The marks actually come from the chicken urine, which if it is left in contact with their skin for a long time, burns the skin causing the brown marks. Yet went the chickens go to be slaughtered after they are killed the worker all carry around what looks like a mini cheese grater and they are told if the see brown marks on the chickens legs to scrape them of with there grater.

All this info come from a programme that I watched with video evidence of all the terrible things that go on hence why I wont eat fast food ect... And only have free rage chicken from our local butchers.

Sarah xxxxx

I only buy organic free range chickens & meat from a certified organic local farmer/butcher sho beef is her own, the pork is from certified organic sources as are the chickens

The soil association are very very strict & the certification can be removed as any time if their standard slip at all-not just the antibiotics & fertiliazers etc, but also animal welfare.

The meat isn't for me as i'm a vegan & have been for over 40 years, but my dogs aren't ;)

wheatenmad, i think someone is having you on :) as chickens do NOT urinate!

Hock Burn interesting bit that it is"monitored"at processing stage as a gauge of animal welfare !

sam: LOL i must have got it wrong then! trust me! :rolleyes: :D It was on a programe on the telly maybe it was their poo that had something that burns them? i know it was something like that! lol :D

sarah xxxx