Hi all

Angus (4 yo) and Charlie (1 yo) have started to be very unsocial in as much they growl and snap at each other and bark continually. The Vet recomends that they both get the snip at the sametime which he says will calm them down. Are there any known side effects by doing this?

Regards

John

You may find this article interesting.  Also, most behaviourists will tell you that castrating both dogs leaves the hierarchical situation unchanged, so the problems often continue - if the quarrels are hierarchical you need to increase the difference in status between them - sometimes merely favouring one dog over the other is enough; sometimes the more submissive dog is castrated to increase the difference between them (see this article). Often problems are unwittingly caused by the owner upsetting their natural ranking!

You may also find that once they've decided their status between themselves and the younger one's adolescent hormones have settled down to their adult level they revert to living in harmony.
:)

Fancy meeting you here JG :P

I also have 2 westies 2 1/2 yr old bailey castrated male and robbie who is 14 weeks. I was thinking of castrating robbie next year to keep both the same would this be a bad idea then or do you think they will get on. Robbie is very dominating and just now bailey tends to let him have his own way unless he really annoys him.

I would wait and see how they get on. There may be no problem.
:)

Hi Bailey,

As Robbie is only 14 weeks, he can't realistically be described as "dominating" ;)  I take it what you mean is that he's constantly pestering the older dog to play?  Pretty much what pups do until they are told off - like you say, your older dog puts up with so much "unless he really annoys him".

I'm not in favour of routine castration - IMO and IME castration is first and foremost for medical purposes i.e. a current medical condition relating to the testes and not a "preventative measure" :)  If you read the link the JG has provided above, you will see that there is only very slight chance of a dog developing testicular cancer and that there are a number of drawbacks to castration if done for non-medical reasons.

FWIW, I'd definitely advise that you wait until your young dog is fully mature - physically and mentally - before assessing the situation.  Castration is not a cure all by any manner of means and many of the behaviours which are attributed to having been "cured" by castration are in fact normal dog behaviour through the pubescent stages, mostly outgrown naturally and any others overcome by proper training on the part of the owners.

Regards, Teri :)

Hi John,

If the problem is status related all you will be doing is adjusting their hormone level to exactly the same degree :(   Unless your vet is trained in behavioural issues and has the opportunity to visit the dogs in their home environment and assess which is the more likely to be the top dog, I'd seek professional advice elsewhere.

If it can be genuinely established which, if any, is the higher ranking of the two then normally the course of action to take is to castrate the lower ranking dog.

Not something to do lightly - be sure it's the right dog for the right reasons.  Good luck, Teri :)

Hi - I have 4 male Westies who all live together in harmony. The 2 oldest Westies are neutered (one for medical reasons) although not at the same time, and the 2 youngest Westies are entire. Their ages are 6 1/2, 6, 2 1/2 and 7 months. My oldest Westie is 'the boss' and tells the younger ones off when it's needed. At the hint of any trouble kicking off (which is very rare if ever) all I need to do is raise my voice and they all scatter. Give a Westie an inch and they are sure to take a yard or two or three - lol.

I agree with the others - if you neuter them both then they're behaviour to each other won't change and you'll find yourself in the same situation.

I forgot to add that I also have 6 year old tiny male Yorkie called Bobby living with us. He thinks he's a Westie and gives as good as he gets - lol.

Are they being nasty to each other, or are they simply young dogs playing (which can sound horrific sometimes ;))  Has either one injured the other to such an extent they need to see a vet?

Have you ever taught them a 'quit it NOW' command?

Unilateral castration will almost certainly NOT 'calm them down' - there is no magic switch which is linked to testosterone which makes a dog hyper or other wise.

Out of interest, what is their current diet?

This is because the younger one thinks he is all grown up now and can throw his weight around.  Think of it in the terms of a human teenger male and his father, usually there is a period of rebellion which evenutally settle.

Having talked about this and expereinced this younster growing up and testing the adult hierachy thing (got a two year old bitch of a larger breed to yours going through this a few weeks ago) have always found being the one in charge works best.  If anything kicks off both get told off equally (we are often not expert enough to work out the true dominant individual)m this basically reafirms that no need to woirk out who is boss between them, as you are boss.

Af friend has two males and the yougnert one at 2 1/2 has on occasion overstepped the mark with the older and a tiff ensued.  She has told the pair of them off, anf the next things whe knows they are comiserateing with each other for having received a dresing down by the 'boss' :D

Remove anything that is the cause of tiffs when they blow up, a bit like with kids, of you can't play nicely tehn take away the toys.

Please, never castrate or neuter unless medically warranted as this causes more problems than people realise.It is not the answer to male domination unfortunately.Castration can in a lot of cases make the tempers far worse,although this depends on the breed a lot/ eg. A noted Vet wrote that Solid coloured Cocker Spaniels and Dobermanns are made worse.Although there will be exceptions.
If the fighting increases to a dangerous level,ie if you can visualise one of them will probably getting hurt,then your best option is to re home one of them, sad but true.

testosterone drives behavior and not in a desirable direction..not to mention the urine of intact male dogs is quite disgusting smelling...if we could neuter badly behaved men the world would be a better place