I own a 6lb chihuahua bitch, she is stocky, 2 years old and without defects. She came on heat and I found her a stud dog in london, the stud dog was advertized as being below 4.5lbs and was champion sired. But in person he was bigger than my bitch so im guessing in actual fact he was at least 7lb, other than his size he seemed a perfect example of the breed. He has apprently sired 3 previous litters averaging 4 pups.
But im now worried he was too big for my bitch, he has a good pedigree with many champions. I know size can be alot to do with the parents and grandparents. I also know that the occurence of c-sections in chihuahuas is high.
Is his size likely to cause complications? should i terminate the pregnancy now? is she likely to need a c-section, this is her first litter i know her dam was always a free whelper, i know both dam and sire on her side were under 5lb and believe the stud dogs parents were both with in breed standard.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, im extremely worried
Janie

i dont know much about toy breeds but you should have thought about c-section and size of stud dog before allowing them to mate! to terminate pregnancy now would be horrible. if you thought he  was too big you should have gone home!

I dont mean to be rude, but "shouldve wouldve couldve" answers arent paticualrily useful. The last thing i expected when i reached the breeders house was to find that theyd lied about the size. Id researced the dogs pedigree and was happy with it. I know a bigger dog doesnt necessairly mean bigger puppies, just like a small stud doesnt gaurantee small puppies. The size of the pups depends on the number  of the puppies and the size of the dogs withing the pedigrees of each dog. Obviously if the stud had been the 4lb stated my mind would be much more at ease. Later it crossed my mind that the dog may even have had a false pedigree, so i contacted the previous owner/breeder of the stud, he confirmed he had bred him, and also confirmed my suspicion that the stud would not have been 4lbs. He didnt however know the weight.
I obviously am annoyed with myself that i didnt leave straight away, but whats done is done.
I just need to know the best course of action now.
Janie

My experience with toy dogs is limited to a friend who has bred Yorkies and Poms for 40 years.  His breeding (as opposed to showing) bitches are always at the upper end, but still within the breed standard, but his stud dogs and the outside studs that he uses are always very much smaller than his breeding bitches.

If the owner of a stud dog lied about the dog's weight then I wouldn't have used it because I wouldn't trust anything else that he said, as I think that trust, especially when you are asking about health issues, is paramount.  I wouldn't want to be responsible for producing puppies from such a mating.

20 years ago I travelled for many hours to use my bitch's Champion Grandfather that I'd not seen.  I'd been studying the breed for only 2 years but I knew that the dog, Champion or not, and belonging to a Championship show judge, wasn't going to produce puppies that I wanted.  I didn't use him! :(

If they lied about the size of the stud dog, how can you even be sure that the dog is who they say he is?  Is he tattooed? or does he have special markings?   It could be a completely different dog :rolleyes: without that trust between stud owner and bitch owner what's left??

Hi
Switching to the practial point of view here. How far gone is the bitch?  If she was mated longer ago than 48 hours I'd say it makes little difference whether she ends up having to have a c-section or has the puppies aborted, as it would amount to much the same -surgery.  But if she is to stay pregnant, than my guess would be that she may end up with puppies too large to give birth to naturally. Note I have no experience of breeding toy breeds so I am only basing this on the experience I DO have of breeding other animals (everything from mice to cats with pretty much anything else in between the two) where a bigger male mating a much smaller female most definitely DO cause problems. I would also guess that if this is her first litter, the chances of problems are bigger, than if she had given birth before.

I think you need to have a word with your vet and warn him or her of the possibility of a section being needed. I'd imagine it may also be useful if somebody very experienced in scanning (not necessarily your vet, perhaps preferably somebody that scans dogs all the time) could scan her towards the end of the pregnancy and see  if they could judge if the puppies would appear to be larger than average or not.

Finally, or perhaps rather FIRST of all, I'd have a word with somebody very experinced in breeding chihuahuas and get their opinion on whether it is safe enough to allow the bitch to go into labour naturally and see how she does, or whether the only safe thing would be to book her in for a planned c-section.

Marianne

Well,  in most breedings the male is a touch bigger than the bitch,so although you might not get a smaller dog/bitch than the mother i cant see why shed have any worse time than any other breed whos males are larger, good luck and maybe she will manage herself, if not a  caesarean  isnt the worst thing in the world  if you have a good vet.

Sticking wiht the practical, rahte than what you maybe should have done at time of mating, yes, the odds are you will have to have a C section.  However, this may have been the case anyway, a very large percentage of chis need C sections - large puppy heads, very narrow pelvis on Mum.  Generally, with all the Chis litters I have seen, a smaller dog is always used - of course, it does not guarantee small size (as some will take after the larger Mum) but that seems to be the accepted norm in the breed.  I agree with the poster who advised that to terminate now woudl not be any better than allowing the pregnancy to continue and do the C section, if she is too late for the  termination injection.  Good luck, and remember in future, dont be pressured into doing a mating if you dont like the dog!  Myy partner once drove about 400 miles, arriving at 10 pm to use a dog previously only seen in pics, but raved about by friends,  he excused himself politley, saying he didn't think the 2 woudl complement each other, and promptly drove 400 miles home again.  Better no mating than the wrong mating.

bye
Gwen

I don't have any advice on toy breeds although I did have them years ago, but I have a Q's if the bitch is 6lb and the stud dog is 7lb surely there is not much difference in size so should be O.K?

If the bitch was 4.5 lb and stud dog 7lb then yes I would have thought it would possibly cause problems when she is whelping her litter.

I had a small bitch Miniature Pinscher who was about 10.5 inch at the shoulder and she was mated to a normal sized stud dog 12 inch and had no problems and produced 4 puppies herself.  Yes I know this is a different breed and she could have been just lucky or an easy whelper who knows but then again this other bitch could be the same?

I'm sure this lady does not need to be told what to do the next time she is put in this situation I'm sure she's beaten herself up enough and has learn a very valuble lesson we all make mistakes but it's what we do about it that matters.

Good luck with your litter.

P.S. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION

I don't know about Chihuahuas, but with my Cavalier boy, his father is pretty big for the breed and his mother is about normal, but my boy and all his littermates which I met were about normal too. I think most of the litter were born naturally but she did have to have a c-section for the last couple. It seems quite common to have c-sections in Cavs from what I have picked up from others. I would have though the size of puppies at birth would have more to do with the number in the litter than the size of the sire. But I am certainly no expert, that's just my guess!

The problem wiht chis is the shape of the pup and the shape of the Mum - very narrow pelvis, and largeish headed pups.   This bigg problem which I see here is that both parents are on the big size, so the odds for big pups are even greater.  I know Mum is not tiny, but the usual rule of thumb with the breed is to use a small dog - to minimise the problem, and maximise the chance of gettign "to show standard" pups
bye
Gwen

Hi MissJanie, i think she might be okay, i would just wait and see how she gets on on her own she might follow in her mums foot steps and not need a c section.  Aslong as you inform your vet nearer the time and keep a close eye on her she should be okay.  Dont get the pups aborted just wait and see what happens.  Good luck.

Warm regards Susan