I can't believe I'm having to type this, but once again Toby has decided to take to messing in the house.  He's been clean for nearly 3 months, except for the odd accident if he's been ill with diarrhoea.  But now, he's reverted to messing nearly every night in the living room.

I've no idea why he's doing this again.  Nothing's changed in the house, no new routines or new babies or such like.  I know people will suggest a crate, but I truly don't have any room to keep one, we live in a tiny two bed house.  I'd love to hear anyones ideas as to why he might have suddenly started doing this again.  I'm truly at my wits end with this dog - just when things start going well it all goes backwards again.

BTW he's a 2 year old cross breed, collie/springer.  Gets fed two cups of dried food in the morning (chicken and rice) and one cup in the evening.  We've not given him tit-bits lately as he's appeared to have a funny tummy, although this morning his poo was perfectly normal.

Really could do with some help and advice please.  Thanx

Hello there,

First thing to do is to ensure that the area is completely and absolutely clean. Do not use household products, they have ammonia which smells like urine to them and they do not break down the proteins that the dogs can smell.

Either get a specialised cleaner for dog accidents or use warm BIOLOGICAL washing powder, soak the area with it (especially if it's carpet), let it dry and then put surgical spirit on top. These two options are the only way you will stop the area from smelling like a good toilet place to the dog.

Change your feeding routine (feed earlier or later) and go outside with the dog whenever it wants to go to the toilet. When he is finished praise him and give him a yummy titbit.

The best option is to get a crate. One can always make room for it. I lived in a small house before and the crate became the side table.:-)

All the best,
Patty

Don't panic Sharon, this happens, just as soon as you think everything has sorted itself out, they either regress or come up with a new trick to stress you out. Out of 4 males I have had, only one has ever been really clean from day one. I understand completely about the crate because although we have room, I have a mother who hates them with a passion! ;) 'Chase' was a scent marker, Indy wasn't reliably clean until he was 2 because he hated going outside, with him it was total lack of confidence. Spy is still having 'accidents' and he is 14 months, although I didn't get him till he was 8 months and he had only began toilet training 5 weeks prior to that so with him it is just time and lots of patience. :rolleyes:

However, with Indy it became a habit, which is what it sounds like with your dog. What I did with Indy was to put him in our small kitchen over night to confine him away from the patch he peed and pooed on. After about 2 weeks when he had gone every night mess free I let him back in the living room but I covered up the area he used to mess in with a dog bed. If your dog doesn't have a certain area then obviously this won't help but once I started doing that I had no further problems. The other trick I used was to take him for a 'toilet walk' last thing at night. I am also doing that with Spy and it is working.

I think the best thing for you to do is try to work out why he is doing it, then you may be closer to solving the problem but from what you say, with no traumas of any kind, it does sound like a bad habit type of thing. Good luck. :)

Thank you for your replies.

Colliesrus: you're exactly right I think in saying it's habit.  The annoying thing is that he used to do this in the kitchen, every night, which is why we decided to shut the kitchen door, and keep him in the living room overnight, and amazingly it stopped - just like you've suggested!  But now, he's started in the living room too!  So, your idea was absolutely what we did, but now he's just turned the tables and is doing it in the living room instead :(

It's so frustrating!!!

How about getting a crate just for night time. It wouldn't have to be very big, Argos do one a sensible size, put his bed in it and he could sleep in there overnight then fold it down and tuck it away somewhere during the day. I have got a crate (GSD sized :rolleyes:) which is up in my bedroom at the mo because we have been decorating but today it is going to be put away back under my bed. Handy things to have and they only take 30 seconds to put up/fold down.

Hi.  I know a crate would be a possible answer, but TBH I just know that he wouldn't like using it, and it would be a waste of money.  He doesn't enjoy anything if we're not with him, not treats, not bones, toys anything!  I could imagine stuffing a 3 course meal into his crate to entice him in, and it still wouldn't work!  He's incredibly stubborn.  For eg, we put a child gate up to stop him getting out of the kitchen, and he simply jumped over it, so we put little swing doors up so they banged against the child gate, and he pulls them out with his nose and then jumps over - if he wants to do something, he'll do it!  Yet he's a pretty well trained dog, will 'stay', 'wait' etc.  He's housetrained too (if I can say that after my topic of discussion!), he knows that he goes outside to do a poo/wee etc and can hold it and wait for his walk, as he's done this on many occasions.  I'm at my wits end with him - just when we feel like we're getting somewhere he starts something like this.  Although he doesn't chew, he's wrecking the house because it stinks something rotten.

To say I'm fed up is an understatement :(

Sorry, I can't remember this now, how long have you had him?

Keeley, I can understand that you would get really fed up with this.  It doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

>We've not given him tit-bits lately as he's appeared to have a funny tummy<

Is he 100% well now or could there be some sort of digestive problem going on?  Is he managing to be clean at all other times?  As he is a clever dog, and goes outside for wees/poos at other times, I'm wondering what reasons there could be for him just having accidents at night. 

Is he clean when you leave him alone during the day?

Crates are not for everyone or every dog, don't worry about that.  Hope you can work it out soon.

Best wishes.

Hi, have had him for about 7 months now, he was a rescue dog.  I understand that he's probably still fitting in and adjusting, but what I don't understand is why he has been clean for 2 months now, then just suddenly starts up again.

Hi Lillith

Yes, he's clean during the day.  I work full time, but come home at 12pm to see to him, and he's always been clean.  His poo this morning was formed normally, so I'm assuming his upset tummy is ok now.

Just a couple of ideas that might be worth looking at:

Sounds like your guy has a food intolerance somewhere along the line. Although his motion was firm on the night of the accident, look what it's like on the two or so days after the incident. It could have been the start of a reaction/build up that caused it. If this is the case, try switching to a hypo-allergenic food (something like James Wellbeloved/J W Burns/Wafcol Salmon and Potato) and that might just do the trick.

Another suggestion is that he might just get more worried when it's dark. If he's OK during the day when you leave him, then it may just be that he's not quite as comfortable when he's alone in the dark. A nightlight might help him out

Some suggestions:

Bar overnight access to the area he is using for his toilet.
If that means moving his bed elsewhere, so be it.

If you have to spend a few nights sleeping downstairs on the sofa, do so, if that will enable you to work out what time this is happening and 'catch him in the act'. If you can catch him at it, it's so much easier. A firm NO and an invite into the garden will help loads. Has to be timely, though!

Does he get a walk in the evening?  Exercise often encourages a dog to empty himself before bed, I have found.

How many times a day does he poo?  More than 2 or 3 times might indicate dietary problems/food intolerance//IBS/similar. That was my vet's advice, anyway.

I also agree with Brierly's advice. Is anything bothering him during the night? Getting anxious? Does he know you are there?

Hi.  Yes, he does get a walk before bedtime, just before my husband comes to bed, usually about 10pm.  When he poos he always dots it around, always has done.

Thanks for your advice.  I'm tending to think it's not because he's worried about the dark, as he was clean for 2 months before this, and we've always had the lights off, but I'll certainly try leaving the light on.

I'm worried that if I move his bed to yet another room (we did this before as he was messing in the kitchen) that he'll be ok for a couple of months again and then he'll start messing, as he's done in the living room.

We're taking him to the vets today to see if we can get him referred to someone who could help.

He'd messed again this morning :(  My house smells so bad, and nothing appears to be getting rid of it - or at least it does get rid of it, but Toby adds to it the following morning :( :(

Sharon...i really do feel for you :-) but i don't know what else to suggest

My brother in law had a dotter abouter and it took his dog ages to be clean at night, funnily enough, but that was right from being a puppy through to adolescence - he just didn't seem able to hold it through the night until quite well grown, so slightly different to your problem.

Until you get to the bottom of it (no pun intended) would it be worth moving him to the room with the easiest flooring to clean?  Then again, perhaps you have carpet in both living room and kitchen.  I was just thinking from a practical point of view that lino might not harbour the odours like carpet could!  Also, if he were weeing at night, you might not so easily spot a wet patch on the carpet and hence the lingering smell, maybe?  (I can't believe my life has come to talking about this.)

As much as we loved one of our old dogs, when he became incontinent, it was hard to put up with, though not his fault of course.  The cleaning job does wear you down though, so I feel for you.  I think Brierley has a point about possible food intolerance.

I wonder if you did sleep downstairs for a few nights, maybe you would see whether he was actually going to the door and trying to get out?  I don't know whether that's practical for you or not, it might just be a way of getting more information about where the problem lies.  Glad you're doing the vet thing, hope it helps.

Best wishes.

>a dotter abouter

You have no idea how long it took me to work that one out! I thought it must be a strange mis-spelling of a breed! :o :rolleyes: (I blame a rubbish night's sleep!)

I still can't work it out Can you enlighten me, JG?

Keeley said >When he poos he always dots it around,
He 'dots it about' = he's a 'dotter abouter'.
:D

LOL :D Makes perfect sense now you've explained it! Was puzzling over that for ages...thought it was some sort of exotic dog breed :D :D

Lol you lot!!  I understood it perfectly - does that make me weird??!

Thanks once again for everyone's advice.  I have taken the bull by the horns and have purchased a crate (£50 ) - it's huge!!  Anyway, we're introducing him to it and he seems to be taking to it well, much better than I imagined he would - so fingers crossed, we'll see how that goes.  I really didn't want to end up with a crate, but I guess in the end I realised we had no choice.  I just hope he settles down well in it and we all have peaceful lives from now on!!

Thanks again for everyones advice.

Good luck :-)

Hope the crate training works for you :)

Sorry! :-D

Not a Lagotto Romagnolo, not a Luzerner Laufhund, not a Chart Polski but a Dotter Abouter.

Hmm. I wouldn't be happy using a crate for my dog BUT...that's a whole lot better than giving up on your rescue dog and having him returned for re-homing. I've seen way too many poor dogs in that situation. Good luck, again. Hope it all works out for all of you.

Thanks Daxdad.  I too was very apprehensive about using a crate, don't like the idea of shutting him away in such a confined space, but I have to say that he's warming to it quite well.  We've built up the time he's spent in it, and this evening he was in there for nearly 30 minutes, with me popping in and out of the room, and he was as quiet as a mouse, and even laid down.  Not entirely comfortable with the situation just yet, but a lot better than I expected him to be.

Going through a pack of treats like lightening though :D