Does anyone know of a breeder of White GSD's ? Preferably in the Wiltshire area?

Thanx.

Leigh

I'm ashamed to say that I do!!!!!!!
First time I visited these people was nothing to do with dogs, I saw this white litter & said "oh dear, what a shame, you must be gutted?" only to be told in no uncertain terms, that they WANTED white ones!!!
OOOps.

Anyway, ring John Connors (exeter) on 01392438124

Thank you Sam , I will pass on the details :-)

Leigh

Can I just ask why white GSDs are frowned upon? I have owned black + Tan and Pure black ones and and have even had a litter, but never a white one.
Personally I preffer darker shephereds anyway, but I just wonder! :)

Mistress

i own samoyeds which are white, but i know that white german shepherds are a fault in the breed and cannot be shown {not 100%sure}!. i have seen them advertised as rare and very highly priced but they only appeal to the pet owner{as not suitable for showing}anyone who knows germen shepherds and breed show quality GSD's stay well away from whites!
hope this helps
Jessie of Snowallen Samoyeds

German Shepherds were bred for guarding sheep out in the fields and their originator felt that white animals were not good guards as they were too easily visible so the standard does not accept white shepherds. Long coated GSDs are also not in the standard. The reason for this is that most (if not all) long coated GSDs lack the undercoat that they should have, making them unfitted for long nights in winter out in the field as they would get too cold, whereas most shortcoated GSDs have the correct undercoat.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

German Shepherds were originally a SHEPHERDING breed hence the
name

They were used to work sheep like border collies & also to keep the flocks on a designated area

This is STILL the case in Germany.

The german breeds of sheep do not bond like Itlaian & Hungarian sheep with the dogs & do not respond well to being worked by White dogs

Longcoated German Shepherds do not have the correct undercoat & as Grman Shepherds have to work in all weathers this makes Long Coated dogs unsuitable

There are also health problems related to the colour as well as character defects in many white strains

There is nothing to stop anyone showing white/longcoat dogs in the UK but a good judge would not place one & would withhold placements from any such exhibit
Hundreds(& I mean hundreds)of White dogs go through rescue every year
Incidently nearly all "White"German shepherds are not WHITE at all but are from off white to biscuit coloured
There is now a recognized breed call WHITE SHEPHERDS in europe & they resemble white Belgian/Dutch shepherds more that German Shepherds

In response to the opinions of Katie, I would just like to point out that not all white German Shepherds carry health problems, they are no different to the coloureds except for the fact that white is a recessive colour.
Whites have been around since the earliest records, and the only reason they were rare at one point was because show breeders would cull any whites in a litter and never admit that their stock carried this gene.
So at one time, the ones that were allowed to live or deliberatley bred were indeed quite rare.
I know quite a few whites who are in perfect health, I myself have a white ( ok cream! ) pup who also (shock horror!) is a longcoat and is a strapping healthy gorgeous pup.
The white shepherds I know look every bit like coloured German Shepherds, and they look a lot better than the show types, as they have big bones, lovely straight backs, big heads and are totally in proportion.
They also resemble Arctic Wolves, which for me is an added bonus!
I do admit that the show breeders are more responsible with their stock in terms of hip scoring etc, and that lots of non standard breeders couldnt give a monkeys about health, but that is no reason to say that whites, or blues for that matter, carry health defects because they are that colour, this is just misinformed predjudiced rubbish!
I am sure that the coloureds have health problems too, but the show breeders won't admit that as it then gives them no real argument against the non standard types.
As for longcoats having mo undercoat, again there are plenty of longcoats who do have an undercoat, so again this is just another generalisation put about by Standard fanatics.
Whew! Glad I got that off my chest! Now I will just sit back and wait for the backlash!

Hi Bear, I totally agree with your comments. The same is true of white Boxers, there is no evidence to support claims that whites have more health problems than any other colour. Infact whites are needed to produce flashy Boxers hence causing a percentage of litters to be born White. I am the PROUD owner of a White GSD. He has no health problems and he is a total softy.

Thanks Naomi, always good to know there are supporters of the underdog out there!

My present GSD has a white mother, only two of the litter followed her, we had one of the whites but sadly he did have health problems, but I am sure this was nothing to do with his colouring.
My boy is not the normal black and tan, he is silver sable and grey and has been much admired for his colouring, in fact at a recent game fair we were asked where we got him and if we were planning to breed, which I am not. Wonder what response I would have got on saying his mum was white. Ingrid

I am so glad I do not own a white GSD because I love my dogs and would be so upset at people looking down thier noses at him/her!!!

I have known 2 and both were fit and healthy, quite snowy white and very friendly temperaments, and I franlkly liked the look of them.

I own Tervs and have never seen a white shepherd reallly looking similar to one. They are all much longer in the body, whilst BSD 's are square. Well these days they are anyway!!!

Just my humble opinion. <G>.

Hi Ingrid,

Can I ask where you got your silver sable from as this is the colour I have been looking for for ages! Is he a longcoat?
You can e mail me privately if you want, and I would LOVE to see a picture!

Hi Bear, sadly I got him from a local GSD rescue at 5 months old, where he had been dumped with mum and eight of the litter, but I believe he originally came from the Crawley area. saw him on a visit for some dog supplies and fell in love.
You can see some pictures of him on http://www.clandogs.co.uk in Gallery 1 under my name, if you want some better pics l will certainly send some more to you. He is medium coated and quite a heavy dog for the breed, very large boned.
I can certainly try and find out more details of his breeder if you want to know. They keep all the pedigrees for future reference.
Ingrid

There is a breeder of Longcoats in Bristol, who also breeds whites. we have had a lot of her stocck coming to obedience, and they have been of excellent temperament, we have met very nervous whites, but it seems this lady has used her very good natured coloured longcoat studs on them to improve temperament, and she hip scores too. A friend has a lovely cream dog from thre who does indeed resemble an arctic wolf. I beleive this person breeds on a small commercial scale. I went with my friend to show off the adolescent youngster, and was pleased to find lovely clean kennels, and yes a litter of white pups. Whatever your feelings on commercial breeding, I could have no complaints about this set up, dogs well cared for and reared, clean conditions, and after sales advice, and take back policy. Most of all she seems to produce good family pets. I will not cast stones!

Hi Bear,

i've just seen your e-mail and WOW, what a wonderful puppy. Thanks for sending it, we've all been going aaahhhhhh in the office.

Hi Bear
In answer to allegation that I'm a SHOW GSD breeder Oho you're totally & utterly WRONG
My base in GSD is from the WORKING side not show & I mean real work not show obedience but SHEEP & other REAL work
Hence my knowledge of Long coated GSD not being suitable for the work they were bred from
The GERMAN sheep defy & ignore WHITE(or pale coloured)GSD's I've seen this in the felsh
My first concern for any dog is Character & being now closely involved in GSD rescue I am well aware of the type of faults all GSd's have
Character failings are not tolerated in Germany nor anywhere else the "International"type GSD is WORKED & shown
Only in those preferring the 50's & 60's type of GSD tolerate poor character & accept dogs that can only be handled on "cheesewire"chokers in the ring
If you would like to check the KC stud book supplement you will discover that The MET & other police forces that breed their own GSD's use the German bloodlines to get dogs of the correct mental & physical atributes
At present in our GSD rescue there are 4 permanent residents who live in the house & can never be homed due to physical & character failings they are ALL whites
Over the year 1/3 to 1/2 of all the dogs are WHiTE so much for caring owners !
All GSD's can have physical & mental faults but when you breed solely for the colour/coat type of the dog along the way the real dog is lost
We have presently five/six white longcoats attending our club ALL are nerous & lacking in confidence from being puppies On checking the parents they too are nervous & should never had been bred from but the money earned from 11-14 puppies @ over £400 a time is too much. No X rays blood tests or assessment carried out on the parents before breeding. All the dogs come from different "responsible"breeders One breeds every seaon registering one litter with the KC & one with Dog Lovers ! to get maximum profit from the mother !
No I'm not a breed fanatic I care about the Breed as I do all my dogs From the two litters I did breed I took one back & the rest died of old age in the homes I sold them to but taking one back was one to many for me & I now only have male dogs that are NOT used at stud
If I want a puppy I buy one from scored blood tested bomb proof parents

Hi Katie,
I am interested in your involvement with the German working dogs, because I only know of the the Shepherds in Germany being used in the Schutzhund. I do not know of any and I have enquired that are still used for herding. I must confessed to not being that impressed the temperaments I have seen her in Germany, my first impression when I moved here was like a 70s time warp, middle age men walking a hard looking shepherd. I do know of a breeder, in Osnabruck, that is in fact an ex pat that breeds for a family/ pet dog temperament. This in the information I have been given is unusual. Owning a GSD I was quite interested in having a pup while I was here but I have decided it against it.
My contacts here are either the military who have involvement with the GSD and a few German 'doggy' friends. So I am very interested in your experience here, and would love to find better Shepherds here or even a better way of training them to what I have seen. Please restore my faith in the German lines.

Hi Beccy

If you want to visit sheep working GSD's in Germany I'm surprised no one has suggested a staring point is the SV's HGH trials in the Autumn to you surely your contacts are aware of these If not contact the SV & they will give you the times & dates etc of this years trials

As for the Army etc I wouldn't let a dead dog go to any services work as I do not approve of their selection & training of dogs

Real work to me is Search & rescue & non combat based protection The best protection trained dog I had was the softest looking & not hard or agressive

A dog should potrect from the heart & not fear

You must have met some very badly trained & bred dogs to only have seen HARD GSD's Schutzhund is not aggression towards people but the sleeve & the dogs reward is to get the sleeve after training not the person.

I've run criminal at ScH training & never seen or been bitten by the dog afterwards when meeting them post training

I have friends in Germany who train & judge both Breed & ScH Their dogs live as family pets IF they are so nasty & bad tempered as you say they must always be on best behaiour when I visit!

I did civilian training with Met dog handlers in the early 80's & it was then a pleasure to be in real dog people's company Until the current Armed forces were handlers are usually NOT dog people rather soldiers etc with a dog & novice handlers can & do ruin dogs

There are several kennels in Germany which specialize in breeding HGH working dogs & their temperaments are the same as all GOOD GSD's

There also are Whites & longcoats in Germany as they are recessive genes & still crop up from time to time The difference being they are not bred for specifically

There are good & bad in every breed If someone wants a white GSD fine but they are NOT rare nor more valuable than those dogs who conform to the breed standard for example advert in regional paper=Rare white Longcoated GSD's for sale FrOM £750.00 both parents can be seen-a check revealed no X rays no blood test not tattooed or chipped & Bitches were £850 as they "make"money free mating offered to puppies father! for a puppy back! & that is typical

I suggest that you contact the SV whilst you are in Germany & visit a training club &/or kennels before passing judgement on ALL german GSD's

I don't know any one in the British Army base area in Germany who has GSD's as my friends are in the Frankfurt & near the border with France

Hi Katie,
Thanks for your reply,
I take it then that your are not that impressed with the army dog handlers then, HA! HA! well in all fairness there are some good and some bad but on the whole I agree with you, they are not that enlightened.
The Shepherds I refered to have not been in shows or clubs, but just out and about, where there are plenty.
I confess to letting other people prejudice me against the SV, in my defence I have heard the same things from various sources. But you have encouraged me to find out for myself as this is what I should have done in the first place.
I know where there are several SV clubs locally and I have the SVs details to hand, so I will persue this, though it will not be immediately as I am about to move house, not far though, about half hour away, but I can make some enquiring phone calls.
Thanks for the boot up the back side, and as I said I would love to see this glorious breed in all its glory in its own country.
I will keep you informed of my progress.
Beccy

Hi Beccy

Please keep me up to speed

Incidently a British ISDS Vorder Collie called Tansterne Fun was exported to Germany & qualified Sch H III & represented Germany in loads of different international competitions It never changed his character He was Also an Int Breed Champion as well ! He was a lovely little dog & no a bad bone in his body His Parents were just Working BC's not obedience work but sheep working !

He was also his owners FIRST dog!

Dear Katie,

I find it interesting what you say about shepherds from British bloodlines, and in particular whites having bad temperaments. Maybe that is your experience so far, and that is fair enough, but I have found that every single shepherd I have met, and that has been quite a few, the ones from British bloodlines, ESPECIALLY the longcoats, have been soft, friendly and calm, wheras the ones from German lines, especially the ones from show lines, have been really hyper and strung out. I have a friend with a bitch from german lines, with schutzhund in her pedigree, when she went to collect the pup, the mum couldnt be let out of the kennel as she was going totally berserk, and the pup was hyperactive and very difficult to train from day one.
I have a white pup, soft as butter, met both parents, really placid, good natured dogs.
I have met other white dogs, all longcoats, all had lovely natures. None of them had bad hips, or were epileptic or had anything wrong with them.
I agree with what you say about how breeders of British types don't health test, and I hate it myself, but every breeder of this type that I know all say the same thing - they have never seen any health problems in their line, so thats why they don't x ray etc.
It is also a well known fact in America that people import dogs from Germany for protection work etc because the Germanic types are far harder and have much more of a drive.
Maybe you are right about whites not being any use for working, I don't have enough knowledge of that to refute, but I remember reading a story about how white shepherds before the war were used in Germany to guard flocks of sheep, their colour meant they were able to blend in with the sheep and the sheep were more comfortable with them, some puppies were even taken from their mothers early and raised with the sheep!
And I believe they are still doing that today in some countries with Pyranean Mountain Dogs and Maremma sheepdogs, with great success, but these dogs are WHITE, so how do you explain that Katie?
Everyone has their own ideas, and I don't doubt that you have come across some whites with bad natures, but I think this is probably due to their upbringing and socialisation as pups. OK, I know you will get breeders out there breeding from dogs of all colours with nasty temperaments, but I do think most breeders breeding the non standard, long coated British types, breed for good temperament, they have to, because they know their dogs are going to be family pets, not show puppets or working dogs.
I know a woman who has been breeding for 25 years, British lines, long coats, and the thing she takes pride in the most is her dogs natures, I have seen all her dogs, she has 13 of all ages, and every one of them are soft friendly lumps, they are more like Labs than German Shepherds in their natures!
I can't understand how people can say they love German Shepherds when they are all for one type but so against the other.
OK Katie, you work for G.S.D rescue and you have seen all kinds of temperaments, but the key word here is RESCUE isnt it?
Any shepherd of any colour or type can have a bad nature I bet when they have been so abused or neglected that they end up in a rescue home. These white shepherds you talk about, what is their backgrounds? I bet they were not raised in a loving normal environment, well socialised as pups and given lots of love as well as discipline when needed?

Hi Bear

I'm not a great SHEEP expert but the sheep in Italy & Spain are different breeds to the German & the FLOCK PROTECTON dogs do not work like border collie or other shepherding breeds The FP dogs bond with the sheep & act as protection from stray dogs & wolves etc

Britsh Shepp do not respond to FP dogs as apparently would not be suitable for the use of FP dogs either & don't on the whole respond to white of white faced BC's(Info from a shepherd who lives locally & was last years International Shepherd's Ch of the ISDS so I presume he knows his sheep)

Few of the turkish FP dogs are White so how do explain why they are able to FP their sheep? like the other white FP dogs? don't ask me I've never had a pure FP dog only shepherding breeds like the GSD Beardies & BC's

Most rescue dogs are dumped by their "caring"owners as the "caring"breeders won't take them back as more puppies have been bred

I care for the breed what ever the colour but to breed for a known fault from dogs that mainly go back to a dog with a genetically carried fault is irresponsible

Most whites go back a few dogs in the 50's from whom lots of faults are inherited included shy temperaments, SOME epilesy & incorrect conformation

I suggest you look up some books on GSD bloodlines by the elders of the breed like the Late Nem Elliot She told like it was WARTS & all not just the good

Enjoy your dogs & love for themselves NOT their colour

Dear Katie,

Where can I get the info on bloodlines that you mentioned? I would be very interested to read up more, and of course you are totally right when you say that a lot of whites carry genetic faults in their line, I myself bought a white pup who I had to return to the breeder when it was found he had megaosophagus, which the breeder denied her dogs carried until the pup had an x ray to prove it. As far as I know, this breeder still has not x rayed her dogs and still continues to breed from them, its disgusting what some people will do just to get money.
I would like to breed longcoats one day, after all the necessary hip scoring etc, and I fully intend to breed for health and temperament as well as looks, I believe I will be one of the very few responsible people when it comes to the non standards, especially up here in Scotland, where most breeders just couldnt care less.
My current pup, who is a cream longcoat, is from British bloodlines and I would obviously like to find out if there are any genetic diseases in his lines, epilepsy is something that worries me a lot.
Before I breed, my dogs will be hip scored, blood tested, x rayed for megaosophugus, and any pups would be tattooed and none of their progeny would be registered until I saw that both parents had been hip scored.
And most importantly, I would not charge extra because I had done all that!
Some breeders who hip score etc, then put an extra £100-200 on the normal price, which I think is just ridiculous as that is not going to encourage people to come to you for a pup instead of the other breeders. Its a fact that people just want a cheap pup these days and couldnt care less what the parents are like.
If anyone knows of any british bloodlines with health defects, I would be grateful if you could e mail me and let me know, as I admit that my knowledge of bloodlines is very limited, and I don't have a clue about any good or bad breeders in England or Wales.

Hi Bear

You try Nem Elliotts books or Malcolm Willis' book as he is a gebtics expert

I would advise against setting out to breed longcoats as focussing on one aspect leads to ignoring others such as conformation

By all means breed from your dogs but not just to get long coats

I know sevearl show/working kennels who often have long coats crop up

They are not culled as many uninformed people think but sold as pets or working obedience etc rather than pokice etc type work

There are long voats bred in Germany & whites still occur & are NOT culled by again sold as pets

Good luck with your dogs

I wish people would stop confusing 'type' with 'temperament' I wouldn't tolerate bad temperament in ANY breed or 'type'. I have spent many times outside the GSD rings and seen so many nervous, hyper dogs that seem to be incapable of being trained to show 'properly' without any outside interference yet have met some lovely GSD's with nice straight backs of ALL colours in normal family circumstances that are an absolute delight.

THE POOR WHITE SHEPHERD!!!!!!
FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE WHITE COLOUR WAS ACCEPTED AND BRED FROM AND TOTALLY ACCEPTED COLOUR VARIATION BY THE FOUNDER OF THE BREED VON STEPHENITZ. IT WAS AFTER HIS DEATH, WHEN MEMBERS OF THE SV DECIDED THE WHITES WERE ALBINOS(!) AND WITH THE RELATIVE HEALTH PROBS WITH ALBINOS BASICALLY CULLED THEM. FORTUNATELY SOME WHITE FOUND THEIR WAY TO AMERICA AND CANADA WHERE THE WHITES WERE DEVELOPED. I LIVING IN GERMANY AT PRESENT AM SURPRISED BY THE SV STILL REFUSING TO RECOGNISE THE COLOUR AND AS YOU ARE PROBABLY AWARE THEY ARE STILL CALLED THE AMEREICAN OR CANADIAN WHITE SHEPHERD. OUTSIDE THE SV CIRCLE SO TO SPEAKTHERE ARE MANY WHITE SHEPHERDS IN GERMANY NOW, AND IN MY OPINION PHYSICALLY LOOK BETTER THAN THE SLOPING BACKS OF THE GOLDS AND TANS. QUITE INTERESTED IN THE WHITES, I PRESENTLY OWN A OLD FASHIONED STYLE BLACK/TAN, I HAVE ASKED AROUND ABOUT THE WHITES CHARACTER. IT SEEMS THEY ARE QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE ACCEPTED COLOUR. THE ARMY HAS NOT HAD A WHITE PASS,SAYING THEY ARE NOT HARD ENOUGH AND CAN BE SCATTY, MY GERMAN VET SAID THEY ARE MORE VOCAL BUT GENERALLY MORE RELAXED, AND THEN I HAVE HEARD THEY CAN BE MORE HIGHLY STRUNG. BUT THE ONES I HAVE SEEN DO NOT SEEM THIS WAY TO ME. THEY SEEM VERY GSD IN TEMPERAMENT TO ME, I MEAN THAT IN A NICE WAY. BY THE WAY LIVING IN GERMANY I HAVE RECENTLY REALISED AND MET THE EAST GERMAN SHEPHERD, WOW! BECAUSE OF THE WALL THE SHEPHERDS HAVE DEVELOPED VERY DIFFERENTLY. THEY ARE SHORTER LEGGED BIGGER BONED, USUALLY DARKER IN COLOUR AND DO NOT HAVE THE HEALTH PROBLEM OF THE GSD AS WE KNOW IT. IT LOOKS AND BEHAVES VERY MUCH DIFFERENT.
WELL I STOP MY WAFFLING, BYE FOR NOW

White GSD's are definitely NOT albinos. They have pigment in their nose leathers, eyes and pads - and in/on mouths and skin if you can dig deep enough under the hair to find it.

Christine

YES CHRISTINE,
THEY ARE DEFINATELY NOT ALBINOS. WHY THE SV DECIDED TO RID THE BREED OF WHITE I DO NOT KNOW, DARE I SAY THAT AT THE TIME I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE WHITE SHEPHERD WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH IN FAVOUR IF YOU GET MY DRIFT.

Hi Ingrid,

Just looked at your G.S.D - he looks like a wolf! Absolutley gorgeous.
However, I am looking for a longcoat as that is my fave type.

I don't own a GSD nor do I ever plan to. Lovely dogs but just not suitable for my lifestyle. However, I am really interested in the messages being left here about the white GSD. There is one living very near to me (unfortunately aggressive due to the owner making her that way) but she is really beautiful.
I think the whites help the public image of the breed (not the one mentioned above obviously) because they look less wolf-like than the darker colours. Not meaning to offend anyone, but I have been with other non-GSD owners who have seen the white and said 'There's a lovely dog' while later walking passed a darker GSD and saying 'Give that a wide berth
What worries me generally with GSDs is people getting them for the wrong reasons i.e. to look hard and macho. It must be a nightmare for anyone breeding a litter of GSDs to vet potential owners.

Hi Lisa,

Totally agree with your comments, however, the reason white shepherds are less threatening in their appearance to people than darks is not because they don't resemble wolves ( the long coats look the spitting image of Arctic wolves and resemble a wolf more than any other colour G.S.D ) but because they don't actually look like people's typical idea of a G.S.D. When I first got my pup Merlin, who is a cream-white long coat, people were asking if he was a husky or a wolf hybrid! Hardly anyone guessed that he was a G.S.D!
I must admit, being a wolf fanatic, that this is what attracted me to the whites in the first place!
I think in the sixties, German Shepherds were disliked for their resemblance to wolves, but I don't think people generally think that about them now. Its more likely to be just the fact it is a guarding breed that makes people wary of them, I mean, I wouldnt go up to a strange G.S.D in the street.
I think the dark ones probably look a bit more mean even if they are not, its kind of like the black cat thing isnt it?