hey everyone.. i am new..and have a dog - bulgarian shepherd pup gifted to riya by ole aunt tissie.
we are having great problems with him. mark it - great!!.. he's 'bout 4 to 5 months old.
he was born in march i guess,
he's a little too much of a menace!!!!

he's our first dog, and i suppose our last one too.

do all dogs bite your ankles out off you???

Of course they do its all part of puppy fun and playing.  My 9 week old loves grabbing my 7 month pups legs and she does occasionally try for mine.
The way I deal with it is to always have a treat in my pocket.  I then ask her to sit or go down for it, so distracting her.  I then replace my ankle with a game with a toy.

Bev

>bulgarian shepherd

Never heard of it. I am hoping you don't mean Belgian Shepherd. Doesn't sound as though you are too keen on your dog which is a bit worrying. Puppies are extremely hard work and they don't ease off that much as they get older. By the time a dog is 4 or 5 months old I would expect the biting ankles stage to have passed so you may need to work on that. If you need advice there are a lot of experienced ppl on here so don't be afraid to ask. :)

I dont understand this comment

>bulgarian shepherd pup gifted to riya by ole aunt tissie.<

Or this one

>mark it - great!<

Anyone??   :)

:D I thought I had stumbled into some sort of hip hop, underworld forum by mistake. Probably just typos mostly. I hope! ;) You're not the only one Hailey. :)

i make pretty much mistakes typing...
i dunno why..
once someone told me this- " pleaese do us all a favour.. plug out your computer!"

And if it IS a Belgian Shepherd, then that is a breed that needs a LOT of training. (Especially if it should happen to be a malinois.) It's not at all a breed for a novice. The very best bet here is to find a good training class and get some help.

Marianne

Hi Reggie,

Best thing to do is to go to a good trainer, that will show you how to handle your puppy, so that they learn the rules of the house. Have a look at www.apdt.co.uk for your nearest trainer. They will be able to help you out in all sorts of stuff.

Cheers,
Patty

yeah.. sorry... belgium shepherd.. not bulgarian.. its confusing!!!
and why do they need soo much training..
infact he looks just like a GSD..
we dint buy him.. soo we are not very sure of the breed and age..
plus- he's are 1 st pup..

Well if you had not been taught by your parents and then at school how to behave then you would not be a well adjusted member of society.

A dog is a different species and is programmed to be a dog, and behave like a dog.  The only way it can fit comfortably into our sociertyy is for us to somehow cimmunicate to it what is expected and what we won't tolerate.

Left to it's own devices your pup will be a dog.  It will dig, bite, bark, guard it's territory and possesions, all normal dog things to do.

To train a puppy properly it requirtes a great deal of patience and understanding as it is like you being dumped into a foregin country and someone trying to teach you in a lnguage you don't understand.

If you make a real effort in the first 69 months and then continue to remind the pups of it's trainign regularly for the first two years of it's life then the things you teach it to do (and more importantly not to do) will become ingrained habit.  You will need to brush up trainign throughout the dogs life.

At this age the trainign is very important as they are at their most open to learning and some things if not taught now can become real problems later.

These include getting used to lots of other dogs and people, and how to interact with them nicely, used to traffic and all the confusing scary things are human world is full of, and to come back when called.

As a first time dog owner regualr attendacne at a good training class is vital.  These classes enable the pups to learn in a distrqacting environment, but more importantly you will learn how to teach your dog.

Hi
There are 4 breeds of Belgian Shepherd, which one is yours? The Tervueren is longcoated and  red, fawn or grey in colour with black face mask, the Groenedael is longcoated and black, the Malinois is shortcoated and red, fawn or grey with a black mask, and the Laekenois is curlycoated and fawn. They are VERY different from the GSD in temperament, high energy dogs, sensitive, need a lot of training, needs to be kept active -and yes can be very destructive and hard work as puppies. A lot of people have them for obedience competitons, working trials, agilty etc, and Malinois are also used as police dogs. They are absolutely fantastic dogs once trained, very loyal, very obedient, very healthy etc, but it is an absolute must to put a LOTof time into them, training them from as a young age as possible. If you are going to keep this dog, I think you absolutely must get some professional help from a dog trainer as you are a first time owner. I needed help with my fist one and by then I'd had other breeds for 20 years. :) Do you have the papers for this dog and know who bred it? As you were given it it is very likely of course that the breeder does not know you now have the dog, and any responsible breeder would be upset to not know where any dog they've bred is now, and certainly most breeders would be very happy to help you out with advice on how to deal with the dog. And should you decide NOT to keep the dog, the breeder will most likely be happy to have it back -and if not, I can put you in touch with breed rescue that will help. There are several BSD people here on Champdogs -myself, Teri, Lindsay, Yvonne and Sarah (Belgianbonkers) for instance, and I am sure we would all be more than happy to try to help you out in whatever way, whether it is to help you find a good trainer or training class or whatever.

Marianne

i dunno which type he is,,, he is black and greyish{ the doc says he grey colour will spread around his body in due time}. he is long coated . he looks quite like a gsd to me..
well sort it out.. what type is he??

comon marianne... i never said i dint like him..  i luv him!!! he's very cute and very naughty..
i wouldnt want to give him back.. and i dont know what to name him!!!

the person who gave us this dog is not exactly a breeder. she gave us the bsd for free!!{ hah!}
her bsd gave 8 pups !!!!!!!
she sold 5 of them.. decided to keep a male and a female and the other one is ours.

and i just dont want to give him back!!!!!

and he's a quick learner.... we taught him to shake hands in about 5 minutes.. but we've not named him yet.!!!!

If his registraion says Grey it will also give his breed, which sounds to be Belgian Shepherd (Tervueren).

If you give the Belgian folks here an idea of where you live they may know of good trainign classes.  You need to find ones that use positive motivational methods.  As has been said the first 18 months can make or break your dog as a well adjusted companion, and the 18 months after that will consolidate your hard work.

Sorry Reggie, I didn't mean it like that! :) It was just your subject -1st and last dog, I got the impression maybe you had second thoughts about keeping him, in which case we'd help you. It's great you want to keep him! They're such clever dogs, once he's been trained you'll find he's a joy to live with -it's just that you need a lot of work to reach that point. Sounds like he definitely is a Tervueren.

Marianne

Hi Reggie,

So far you've been given some very good advice on how to go about training your puppy but, as Goldmali has pointed out, Belgian Shepherds are not easy dogs nor are they ideally suited to first time owners.   I have Belgians too - so can speak from experience ;)  

Perhaps you could come back on and tell us what the coat colour and length of hair is on your dog - that way we can establish which variety he is.  What are his teeth like - does he still have baby teeth (tiny, sharp and needle like) or are they the larger teeth of an adult or even perhaps a mixture of both?  This will help give a guide to his age ;)

What area of the country are you in?  If you can give us any info which helps trace the breeder (even just the name of the original owner) we may be able to put you in touch with someone locally who can give you one-to-one specific advice.  It's very difficult over the internet to give more than general advice because owners rarely provide enough detail but the training, socialising and handling of a young Belgian Shepherd are crucial areas in what is a highly energetic yet sensitive breed  :)

If you can give more info, we can certainly give more help.  Hope to hear from you, Teri 

My first dog was a Belgian Shepherd (Groenendael with black long hair).  they are a mixture of sensitivity and determination which needs just the right approach for best results with training.  Too hard you can crush them, and too soft and they can take the mick. :D  they are not a dog for someone wanting a quiet couch potatoe dog, well not until tyhey are around 10 years old at least.

>Too hard you can crush them,

I have seen them come back fighting with this treatment too. They don't suffer fools gladly do BSD's. ;)

Hi Colliesrus ;)

The sad part if in the wrong hands, is that a BSD temperament can be both.  Often easily crushed with the result the he is unlikely to ever trust a human again or he can be driven to the point where his very primitive but instinctive high drive makes him use every defence mechanism he has at his disposal - a sharp mind, ultra swift reflex reaction and extreme tenacity when "fixed" to his mission :(

This breed is my passion and I wouldn't be without them until I become either physically or mentally incapable of raising one with the level of patience, perseverance and (IMO above all) respect that is necessary - this means that for at least the first 2 but preferably 3 years of a pup's life - regardless of the variety - you have to put in a lot of hard work, mostly in the first 18 months and then continue at a "maintenance level" for the next 12-18 months.  *Anything* you put into this dog you will get back ten fold and more, so it's important that novices to the breed are set off on the right track of how to achieve a well balanced and sociable dog who is neither timid and hand shy nor bolshy and aggressive.  It can be a fine line and having someone with intimate knowledge of the breed to guide you is invaluable  - generally our breeders are exemplary but of course there is always a small minority who wash their hands as soon as a pup leaves their premises and it's known to breed rescue that some are being puppy farmed

This is why I would urge Reggie to come back on board and provide more details as this pup is at a ripe age for inappropriate training or handling to basically make or break a juvenile's character.

There's good, reliable and readily available knowledge on this Forum Reggie from several experienced with the breed who will all be only too happy to help but the more information you can provide the better chance of help being swift and appropriate to your individual dog and specific personal circumstances.  Regards, Teri :)       

A freind of mine took on just such a Terv.  Someone she knew in obedience had him and had treated him so hard that he became hand shy and a fear biter.  He was so sensitive to touch that he would go straight for your face if you so much as brushed past his rear.

I had seen this pup working wehn the man first had him and he was so willing, but he didn't hae the parience for the speed of progress he was getting, and handled him badly.

My freind used to sell him his food and when she saw him and asked about him was told he was useless, so she offered to ahve him.  she got him for a couple of bags of dogfood.  He had a similar pedigre to some of the then best working tervs.

Well they brought him round inch by inch and it took several years for him to become trustworthy.  He was a great freind of mien though in old age he had terrible halitosis (his owner wasn't prepared to put him undert anasthetic as he had a weak hert by then), and would lie his head on my knee and you held your breath while petting him. 

He lived to 15, by the end he was blind and hard of hearing but a wonderful dog.

It's good to hear that Terv found a good home Brainless :)

Someone not far from me is in obedience locally with her Terv, and I was so cross when i saw how downtrodden the dog was, i wrote to the local paper - not mentioning names, but everyone knew who I was referring to :D because the breed isn't common. I do believe this particular owner does love her dog, but trains in the old way (ie shove a dumbbell in the mouth and make the dog hold it, rather than make it fun for the dog). I also saw a  Terv being told off and slapped down hard at working trials for breaking the Stay, which was so stupid because the dog had done everything else so well and simply needed the confidence to complete the Stay. I really, really wanted to slap the owner but sadly that's not allowed :P

It's one of the things I worry about with the breed becoming just a bit more popular these days - they are so different from the usual dogs competing in canine sports. IMO they need far more patience and they take their time to mature for working.

Interestingly I found a small piece about a US obedience competitor called Bernie Brown, who used to write alot in a magazine called "Front and Finish" which is/was presumbly an obedience magazine in the US. This was some years ago now. He wrote about a new dog he was working with, a Terv puppy called Raisin. He said in the first of these columns that he hoped to show people what he looked for in a "keeper". However, he didn't keep Raisin because the puppy couldn't tolerate the stresses of Brown's training style, and the dog was placed on a farm.

Luckily there seem to be some fantastic owners and trainers around at the moment with their BSDs, long may it continue :)

Lindsay
x

Fortunately my freinds were expereinced trainers for 30 plus years mainly with GSD's and Colies but always having one dog of a non typical obedience kind to keep them grouded and thinking rega5ds training methods.  They have had a Lurcher, Labrador, various corsses, a Bouvier and an Elkhound, as well as the BSD.

What sensible people your friends are, that's so good to hear :)
Have they done Obedience with the Elkhound at all?

Lindsay
x

Yes but they are both now not able bodied enough to do the Open shows and only do Exemption shows.  the bitch is pretty good.

I ahve another freind who has severtal Elkhounds and has usually mangewd to get in the first 10 in Novice at Open shows, but is often told to get a proper dog.

She has a new puppy by one of her boys that I bred and is thinking about Working Trials which seem far better suited to the breeds mental makeup and natural abilities.

That sounds really interesting, I love working trials although I'm not by any means what you'd call a "seasoned triallist" yet :P Far from it, but I'm learning and at least Banya has fun too. It would be excellent to see an Elkhound competing :)

Lindsay
x

>trains in the old way (ie shove a dumbbell in the mouth and make the dog hold it, rather than make it fun for the dog).

This is what I saw happen to one of the Tervs I knew. It wasn't the way we trained at our club but she thought it was taking too long and took matters into her own hands. Plus she lived with her Dad and he was a complete you-know-what to everyone, including the dog. It broke the trainer/breeders heart to see it as well as the rest of us. The dog turned into a nervous wreck in the end and would defend himself in the only way his instincts knew how bless him. He was a stunning dog too. Then one day her father gave him an enormous piece of rich chocolate cake and two hours later he had his first fit. He is now so doped on drugs he couldn't bite if he tried but he has been completely ruined by his stupid owner. :( I do hold the 'breeder' responsible too mind, she didn't exactly help by repeating the mating when a bitch from the first litter was already badly fitting. She has stopped now thankfully (9/17 pups are epileptic, 2 now been pts) and all of the others are neutered so they won't be passing it on. 

I know a woman who has got a few Tervs she does agility with and they are so delightful it saddens me even more because now I have something to compare those other Tervs with and I can see how they should be if raised properly. Plus I have seen pictures of Teri's and they are gorgeous.

Reggie I really hope things work out for you, which I have a feeling they will as you are not only asking the right ppl for advice but following it too. Don't worry too much about your lack of experience, you will learn, especially with help from these experts on CD. Good luck. :)

It's a terrible shame when due to lack of skill and care people basically teach their dogs to defend themselves in the way you describe :(
As you say, once you see the Belgians who are full of life and fun, they are delightful and so it's so worth getting to really understand them :)

Lindsay
x

from the BSDs ive seen in obedience,i cant believe ANYONE would think that you could force them into doing anything.to my mind they are wonderfully sensitive dogs with a very wicked sense of humour & some stubborness too.
i love watching them do HW,as they are so naturally stylish & gracefull.

i had the pleasure of stewarding a open C with lynn luckock in the other day,with her terv,OB CH hawksflight fantasia,she did THE most fantastic motivational training round ive ever seen.the bitch is STUNNING

They look like they are walking on air don't they Michelle? One I used to know would take her breast of lamb and move across the room with it to her corner and I swear her feet never touched the ground. Talk about instinctive. She used to do wonderful heelwork too, although I will never forget the hilarious story of a training session with Silvia Bishop shouting "pop the lead, pop the f***ing lead..." and every time her handler popped the lead the dog ripped off one of her buttons. By the time she had finished she was holding the blouse together with only the top button remaining! :D Her handler threw her the tuggy and she spat out the last button before killing the toy and grinning at her handler. What a character she was.

they are great!

The Working Belgian Shepherd Dog Society set up a training day with Lynn, sadly I couldn't get to it, although I would have loved to! Ah well, next time... :P

Lindsay
x

his teeth are small.. and when we got him we ssaw that one perticular front tooth was very white and quite larger then the neighbouring one.
on his first check up we told the vet 'bout it and he said that his baby tooth had fallen and the new adult tooth replaced it,
when we asked him about the age.. he said that it maybe 4 - 5  months...

on his first day.. at night we had no idea where to keep him..  we tied him to the bedroom door.. he cried all night...

and how many times should they be fed?? doc says five...!!!
at 6 am.. 10 am.,. 2 pm... 5pm... 10pm ???

At five months old he should be on 3 meals a day.  Mine never have more than 4 meals a day right from when I start weaning, but of course Mum is still also feeding them up to 6 weeks or more.

At 8 to 12 weeks I would say 4 meals a day.

3 to 6 months aproximately 3 meals a day.

6 to 12 months 2 meals a day, and then if yu want one meal a day after that thoughmany people prefer to continue with two meals.

He should ahve his own bed to sleep in, and hsould be kept in a room where the floor is easily cleaned.  the use of baby gates in teh house id most useful, as it can keep him contained without having to shit doors so he can still see you.

A crate (I would say a 36 long x 24wide  x 27 inch high one would be ideal) will be most useful to use in the car, when you are visiting away with him, and to contaijn him wsafely when doors are open or at night if you plan to keep him in your bedroom.  this will also help with housetrainignas hw won't awant to dirty his bed, but it does mean gettijn g up to take him outside if he cries in the night or any other time. 

Apart from at night I would not considre it appropriate to crate a dog for more than an hour or so.  They will use it as their den with the door open, and to get them used to it it is wise to feed them in it with the door open, gie it chewtoys etc to encourage them to see it as their safe haven.

Hi! I suggest you buy a copy of "The Perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey, which is full of very helpful information about how to train your puppy. Also have a read of this link to help you stop his mouthing. Remember, he's teething at the moment and has a need to chew. How he behaves as he grows depends on how much effort you put into training him now ...

Which of the 4 varieties of Belgian do you think he might be, Reggie?
I expect he's quite a handful just now. My Belgian Tervueren used to be nicknamed "Mad Bitey Puppy" :P

Does your fella have a name? I am guessing you are Ria and he is Reggie, but am probably quite wrong! Also, who is ole aunt Tissie, you have me intrigued!!! :P

Lindsay
x

I just wanted to say how wonderful your responses have been to this subject, Reggie should take on board what you have all said and count himself lucky to have all this at hand which many dont. Reggie or Ria if your listening, please listen to these knowledgable folks, if you feel its too much for you to take on, get in touch with the correct people and hand him to someone who really could help this little guy before he reaches adulthood.
Well done guys.
Jodi

By the way im thinking that Reggie (BSD) was a gift to Riya (wife/g/friend) from Old Aunt Tissie...lol
lol

Hi there

Loads of good advice already given - there is a good 'safety net' in place here in the UK for BSD'S - most of us are only too pleased to help either with advice or, in the worst case scenario, by getting either of our excellent rescue groups involved. Being a small community we know pretty much everyone involved in our breed and almost all of us are passionate about our 'mad Belgians ' and would move heaven and earth to help one if we can. However my feeling is that this poster is from the USA - if this is the case then they could contact the breed clubs over there to try and team up with an experienced owner to help them through this difficult period ( Teri - do you know the contacts for the USA Clubs - I know you have some friends in the breed out there ).

As has been said before ours is a complex sensitive breed - once matured and trained there is no better dog in the world - they have it all, brains as well as stunning looks - and many go on to be their owners 'once in a lifetime' dog. but they can try your patience when young and we've all been in need of advice when training our first ;).

I do hope things get better - please let us know how you and your pup are doing ( PM me if you want ).

Yvonne

thanks... i actually sat and read every line of this topic.. because its important to me..

he's my first dog... i have only grown a cat bnefore till the age of 2 after which she ran away from home!!!

and.. CAN ANYONE TELL ME FROM WHERE DO THEY GET SMILEYS???

AND ALSO....  what do you all feed your dogs?????
we feed our dog royal canin... junior.
is it of good quality?????

ands help me name him also!!!!!!

Did he have a name when he came?  If he has been responding to Puppy Puppy (what many breeders use when claling pups for their food) a name sounding similar may help him, as normally a pup would have had a anme by 8 to 12 weeks of age and coem when it is called.

I have changed a dogs name at 9 months old and she very quickly knew it was her name. If you use it in an excited encouraging rtone everytime he is looking at you and coming in your direction.

What about 'Shadow' 'Shady' 'Foggy' for a name?

not shadow.. our niehbours dog's name is shadow and i dont want two dogs coming running at me when i say shadow

lol...  please dont ask ;). aunt tissie is just an old family friend. her real name ihing else.. i think that even i dont know. :))

thanks... i actually sat and read every line of this topic.. because its important to me..

he's my first dog... i have only grown a cat bnefore till the age of 2 after which she ran away from home!!!

and.. CAN ANYONE TELL ME FROM WHERE DO THEY GET SMILEYS???

DOES ANY DOG ACTUALLY DRIP URINE EXSPECIALLY WHILE SLEEPING????

WE TOLD OUR VET THIS .. AND HE SAID THAT "HE'S ONLY A BABY AND CANNOT CONTROL HIS BLADDER!!.. "

CAN THIS BE TRUE?

OUR HOUSE STINKS 'CAUSE OF HIM.

If he is actually asleep when wetting himself then this is not normal for a is normal that they cannot hold on for long, and that when they need to go it needs to be now, just like a human toddler, when they say mummy I want to wee, often it will be trickling down their leg :D

Make sure you get a good cleaner, biological washing powder is good; don't use anything with ammonia in it (disinfectant) as that may encourage him to keep weeing in the house :P

Pups usually need to go out straight after sleeping, upon waking, after playing, after eating... best to take the initiative and take them out. I pop a small tasty food treat into their mouths at that time and praise them. You can use a word like "quickie".

Are you in the States Reggie? :)

Lindsay
x

Ps Smileys - try this one  : ) but closed up for the smile one.

no.. its not like that.. even after he's just wee'd.. he will still drip.. i know it doesnt sound normal..
he doesnt wet himself.. he just drips like a leaking tap.. as if there's a hole in his *****.

we've taught himn the word.. its.."muu" :)

i wanna try out the smiley's.. soo please excuse.

;)  :(  :) :}

:? :, :> :!

none of them?>?? puh

what should i do for his GROOMING.. he proberbly needs a lot of care..

i just realized that he loves to eat garbage stuff like stones, mud and sometimes even plastics.

i supose some plants are poisonous.. we've removed them from the ground for him.