Hi all, was looking at a Great Dane site the other day, and they had done a five year study on Danes health problems. To my surprise, they reckoned that if Danes were fed from a raised feeding bowl they were 120% more likely to get bloat, than if they were fed from the floor. I was more than a little surprised, as I understood the exact opposite and have always fed my Wolfhounds from a raised feeding dish. Your thoughts and ideas please.

They also have said this on the Standard Poodle forum I'm on. I feed my Boxer from a raised feeder but this is because it looks so uncomfortable to bend down to eat! His neck is considerably shorter than his legs!

Phillipa my GSD has already had bloat followed by a complete torsion which he was lucky to survive. I fed him from a bowl on the floor.
I'm convinced that he bloated because he picks up the food in the front of his mouth and snatches it to the back before swallowing with very little chewing (if any). He threw his head around a bit. This is gulping down a large quantity of air.
I now feed him raised at chest height which stopped all that action and he hasn't had any further bloating problems in over 6 years. I would never feed him off the ground again no matter what articles say. My other dogs I also feed at chest height but I have another GSD who pokes his tongue into his food bowl, sticks biscuit to it and chews thoroughly before gently swallowing. I don't feel I would have a problem with bloat with that dog. He's such a slow feeder. I don't! - but I think I could safely feed him off the ground and he'd be ok!
My personal view is that it is the way the dog eats that's a major contributing factor to bloat.

Hi Lara, I agree with you entirely, the really fast feeders appear not to chew at all, they just seem to throw it down their throats!! In the process they gulp down air which enters the stomach. I have always fed my hounds from a raised bowl and will continue to do so, I was just amazed at the findings of the study.

Hi Phil, when I got my first hound I was told to raise food bowls because feeding from the ground was supposed to damage forelegs rather than because of bloat. I could never see the logic in that OR in claiming that raised bowls decrease the incidence of bloat. Nor could I ever find proof (or even convincing anecdotes) for the claims. So I've always fed from floor and (touch wood) I've not had a bloat or crooked forelegs. But I was relieved when that study came out :-)

Hi sharon, I had it explained to me many years ago, that to feed a wolfhound from the ground was nearly as bad as expecting a giraffe to eat from ground level. It was also explained to me however, that giraffes have a special valve in their neck to stop the blood rushing up to the head when they bend down. I am STILL working of the similarity between that and feeding a wolfie!However, mine def. seem more comfortable with a raised bowl, rather than having to reach down to get their food.

Feeding from a raised bowl has always seemed somewhat strange to me <g>. The only time a dog would naturally eat raised if it had caught an animal large enough to be high off the ground when dead. Or, as one of my old girls did, always took her bone and put it in the fork of a tree to knaw. The rest of the time they would naturally eat at ground level (as do most other ground dwelling animals).

What is the logic behind raised feeding, I know it was believed to reduce bloat buy how?

Christine

Strange how views on this conflict, I read on a GSD site that they should never be fed from raised bowls, they say bloat is caused by the eating too fast and suggest putting a chain in the bowl so the dog has to move it around and eat more carefuly. I have never fed from raised bowls and so far have never had a dog with bloat and hope that I never do. Ingrid

Sometimes you guys are really hard to get advice from:) I have a 12wk old GSD and now with conflicting stories- I'm going to have difficulties in the future knowing what to do for the best:D Does anyone have any links regarding their beliefs where I can view the info for myself:)

Stacey x x x

Stacey, heres a link to the article on the GSD Helpline, just gone and found it. Ingrid
http://www.gsdhelpline.com/bloat4.htm

Hi stacey, have a look at
http://www.irishwolfhounds.org/nutrition.htm#Raw%20food
sorry cant do links.
Go to the home page , go to health and there is an interestin article on bloat/torsion

Stacey, the Purdue University link is here.

Thanks you three- I take back what I said about you being hard to get advice off:D :D I hope none of you took offence though- I only meant it joking;) I'll get back to you all with MY opinion to add to a few:p

Stacey x x x

Right finished- a quick one before bed- it's 25 past 1 in the morning- what are you lot doing to me:)

In my opinion I will feed from the floor but with a large stone or some other article in the bowl so that Kassie can't gulp her food down. Raising the bowl only serves to make the food go down quicker too which would appear to be a factor in the problem. A very large breed of dog though like the Irish wolf hound I think if the bowl was raised a bit then it wouldn't matter because the gap between the food and the mouth if you know what I mean is the same as a medium dog eating from the floor. So long as they don't stretch there neck too far seems to be the norm with the food having to go up the neck then down the body into the belly.

Like I said though a lot of conflicting stories. If we all thought the same all of the time the world would be boring:) But I'd have got an extra hours sleep tonight;)

Stacey x x x

Stacey - my dog that bloated and twisted would take the food into his mouth at floor level from the bowl but then raise his head with his gulping action so that when he actually swallowed the food, his head was raised. Then he would have to put his head down to pick up some more. I'm sure MOST dogs don't eat like this. I don't mean raising heads to have a look about while their eating - that's completely different!
I have another dog who's face never leaves the bowl until it's empty.
I've done loads of digging about bloat and torsion having been faced with it to try and find out what caused it and the conclusion is that NOONE really knows for definate. There are so many theories. But watching my dog eating convinced me that it was his wierd eating action that made him susceptible by ingesting huge amounts of air. That's just MY dog, someone elses dog may have bloated for a completely different reason.
It's a very confusing problem because there are no definate answers.

Hi Stacey, glad you didnt fall asleep reading it all. At least it has helped you make your mind up about what you want to do!! ;)

Well I always believed raised bowls were to help give them a good arch of neck. I do feed them off the ground , in raised bowls . have to say cant see it arched a neck any better than what they were born with .:D lol Mari

Don't really know about reducing the risk of bloat but I found that a raised feeding bowl, immediately slowed down the Mockodile's previous gobbling habits ! ;)

I feed him from one, just because it makes him eat slower (which hopefully will also reduce the risk)

Beth

Mari, good arch of neck .... preventing bendy front legs ... I have a sneaking suspicion that feeding from raised bowls (and a whole lot of other 'doggie must-dos' and 'accepted wisdoms') came about because someone or other got a wee notion in their head at some point in the dim and distant past, and the wee notion has been extrapolated as it has passed down the years :D.

Hi christine, as I understand it fedding from a bowl is not feeding from ground level. Most wild animals eat lying down but I think the majority of dogs eat standing up, therefor ethe food has to go up, before it can go down, if you see what I mean!!

I agree, mine all eat quite slowly, piece by piece! The oldest I consider the greedy one, and sometimes I used to put a bone or stone in her dish to slow her down, but that was only when she was on a diet. Normally she eats at a slower speed chewing thoroughly!

When I have visited some doggy households and seen the food gulped down barely touching the sides I could understand problems happening.

With large dogs especially eating a concentrated diet quickly, rather than the natural way of having to take time to tear and chew!

I have always thought that if a dog wasn't comfortable with bending to eat that they would do as my lazy lot do and eat lying down. When wolves and other wild canids are at a kill they appear to lie down or croauch and pull at their food!

Hi All

Had a rethink on this after having watched my lot eat last night.

Kibble, Grass, Water, droppings etc picked up/eaten/drunk from ground level

Carcass'/wings/anything large picked up and then chewed with front legs spread forward and head just below or level with body - sort of tucked between shoulders

I suppose the natural level depends on what they are eating

Christine

Do dogs chew, not as we understand it, do they? Mine don't. Have the same breed as Brainless & 3 of my 4 put it away as quick as pos. the youngest eats much slower but then he has far more to get through. Perhaps it is because I feed them all together and not seperate as I know some owners do. The only case of bloat I have heard of in my breed was one of mine, and that was the fault of over feeding at a commercial kennel. Did have 2 cases of bloat when I owned GSD's but one of those was when a bitch broke into the food store and helped herself to 5 days food and then went and drank half the fish pond, she survived to empty the fridge 3 weeks later. JH

Jackie I know of one fatal case a few years back, and yes mine definately chew their food, especially the Wafcol, though the arden grange too!

Thanks Barbara, did not think Nina could have been the only Elk to have suffered. As to chewing they do crush between their molars but do not make the jaw movement we do in chewing just an opening and closing of the jaw not a circular movement if you can understand what I mean, and only with dry food served dry anything wet goes straight down, grass gets chomped. You don't see in dogs the sort of movement you do in ruminants. You have started me of now will have to have a brief study of the canine digestive system to see how it differs from ours if at all, know the intestines are much shorter but expect there are other differences. Jackie

When I watched them chewing there was a lot of tongue movement so I imagine the tongue is used to move the food around the mouth and it is just chewed small (or broken up enough) to swallow

Christine

Of couse it is not only a feeding issue. Bloat can be brought on by other conditions too. Stress for example, and although I always feed my Dane from a raised bowl I feed a specialist kibble designed for giant breeds. As my Dane is particularly keen at mealtimes, I add half a brick to his food - not to eat you understand:) but so that he cannot consume the entire meal too quickly. I know that G.D.A.S have found that feeding Royal Canin Giant Breed has reduced their Bloat/Torsions in rescue dramatically.