The government is launching a review of the laws governing fertility research and embryo treatment. Some of the issues will relate to scientific developments but consideration will also be given to social issues such as the (current) requirement for a child's need for a father to be considered. 
The review will consider if the wording of the Human & Embryology Act should be changed so that IVF clinics need not consider the role of father.

Just wondering what people think about this - do you think the Act, as it stands, is offensive and discriminatory to unconventional families or do you believe that a child's need for a father should take priority ?

I think the role of 2 parents really is what needed, but as a person who's still single in her mid. 30's and who would like children at some time, I find it hard to answer this!!  I've been lucky, I've got two great parents who I still go and see nearly every day :d

Would love to hear other peoples views.

My husband was brought up without a father (his own died before he was born) and he really suffered from the lack. He also found it very difficult when he became a father himself, having had no role model to either emulate (or otherwise!) - he had to learn as he went along. It may be old-fashioned, but I do feel that child-rearing is such an important job that it can be too much for one person to do it properly all the time.

As a divorced mother of two who se younger child has only met his Dad once, adn the older one had no contact for 10 years and then wehn she did it was a disaster for her (just couldn't cope with an alcoholic Dad) I would have to agree that not ahving a Father figure can have serious and lasting effects and not something to be done deliberately. Children need more than one parent and preferably an extended family for the parents to fall back on and give prspective to this most difficult job ever.

I was fortunate to have a loving and devoted dad until I was almost 40 years of age. There is no doubt that his involvement in my life enhanced it 100% and, for that, I'll always be grateful.
I've always thought that, to deliberately go down the single mother path from the outset, is a very selfish choice to make.

Children are a gift, not a commodity; the desired product from a loving relationship.

Of course things "happen" in relationships, but IMHO the needs of children for parents should be prioritised NOT the "need" for adults to have children..................

Tohme, that's exactly what I've been trying to say - you've said it so well !.
I guess it's like everything else nowadays, people concentrate on their rights.......too little consideration is given to the rights of the child.

I absolutly agree, whilst you cannot guarantee that their entire life will be perfect, you should at least endevour to have as near to perfect a situation at the start and that to my mind must include a father in a stable relationship and as someone else has said a supportive network of family and friends is also IMHO essential.

Well said Tohme - I couldn't agree more.

Hi,
I think the law is discriminatory. In an ideal world! There is Mom and Dad and Grandmothers and Grandfathers. All parents live happy ever after, and see there children grow up to do the same.
But! in the real world, Where there is intergration, of many Nations, diffrent morals, cultures,
The birth pill, gives women more rights to free loving, ect; ect; Marriage is no longer an automatic thing to do. We have a chose, Men have done it for years! But! because women have taken the roll to decide when to have a family ect; A lot of men, do not any longer, take on responsibilitys  It takes two to make a relationship work. No! relationship is better than a bad one. So there will always be Women rearing
children on ther own! Why should a women be beholden to a man, as most do more than there far share,
if she is sound of mind and healthy, and can financially afford a child with out a man why Not! People who have been financially sucure have been doing it for years. The only thing that I am a little concerned about is the child not knowing who there father is! Did any of you see the film "Made in America" it tells it all.
Never laughed so much, great film.
Regards
Denese

I don't agree with fertility treatment full stop! Bit controverisal I know but I think mankind mucks around far too much with nature for it's own good.

Dapple

Hi dapple,
But! were do you stop! fertility, drugs, transplants, dialysis, capped teeth, all against nature.
With improved medical  knowledge, it would be a crime not to use it.
Regards
DEnese

All the millions of £s spent on fertility research and treatment would be far better spent on other areas of health and preventative research.  We already have an overpopulation problem and we, in the western world, are evolving into a race that will have difficulty reproducing without medical assistance.  The more money we throw at this, the more it will be required........IMHO :-)

Julie

Of course, the desire to reproduce is one of the most basic instincts. It could be argued that those displaying this instinct are the ones who should be encouraged for the perpetuation of the species and to avoid narrowing of the gene pool. Those who don't display this instinct could be considered the genetic undesirables ...
:)

I don't think we are short of willing participants in the reproduction stakes, as you say, this is basic instinct and those not possessing it are naturally kept to a minimum.  But if the global ecomomy system was to crash and we returned to stone age mode, which isn't totally inconceivable considering the rate of global population increase and climate change, then the races already surviving on conditions closest to this would have the best chance of survival.  "The meek shall inherit the earth"

Julie
only very sligtly TIC ;-)

Hi Denese, don't agree with transplants either I'm afraid. Specifically with regards to fertility I believe that there is a reason why a particular person cannot reproduce and fertility treatment bypasses that. I'm sure time will show why we should only reproduce by natural means, afterall how many of us would be up in arms if a dog breed was created that could only reproduce artificially?

Dapple

Interesting post, Denese.  It's a shame though that you seem more concerned about a womans rights than those of the unborn child.  

And, Dapple, I fully appreciate and understand what you're saying - some things are best left to nature :)

Hi Tyby,
That's not quite right! I have spent 30years in child care. Case confrences, committees, Also took in to my home over 100+ babies, of all nationalities. Who have come from all types of backgrounds, The child has
always been my first concern, That is why, I have this opinion, I have 6 children of my own two adopted,
I was married in an ideal relationship, so I thought!! I ended up bringing the children up on my
own for part of there lifes, as NO!! marriage is better than a bad one, it does far more damage to the child.
I am re-married now and very happy, But! no one can be sure of tomorrow. If you ask my family
they will tell you they had a great childhood. In a lot of cases Dad are at work most of the time.
Regards
Denese

Would the mum be able to claim single parent benefits?

Hi Tracy,
That is one of the reasons they are trying to stop it also No CS of the father.
I do think that the sperm ought to be health checked though.
Regards
Denese

Denese, just because a dad is at work doesn't make him an absent father ! 
A dad who's out earning money to support his family is to be admired - better than one who chooses to live off benefits.

Your commitment to looking after other people's children is commendable but I still think a woman who deliberately opts for single parenthood is being irresponsible and selfish.

Im kind of split on this issue. I agree in that it cant be good for the kid to not have a father but on the other hand if a woman is so desperate for a family then why not let her have one?? You'd have to weigh up the pros and cons but I dont think they should then be allowed to claim all the benefits under the sun because they are a single parent.

If a woman is so desperate for a family, she can foster or adopt.

Anyway, how can anyone be "desperate" for a child?

Desperate for a cure for their terminally ill one yes.

Is the child "desperate" for her?

Some of my friends are desperate for children (they are in relationships) but if they werent in relationships and they were financially capable then I suppose it would be ok for them to do it. I dont agree with the whole sponging off the system thing. I think if people werent thrown benefits they would consider the outcome more often. Instead we live in a society of get pregnant and you can have the world.

Tracey123 totally agree with the benefits side of things, it makes life too easy for many.  I couldn't have a council house because I wasn't pregnant!!  This is actually what I was told by an official and maybe that I'd be better off getting pregnant.  Because i've worked blooming hard and not got into relationships and had kids I've had to battle hard to be able to buy my own house with no help from anyone.  I've worked all my life and never claimed benefits, 

Hi Tohme,
Fostering is not easy to get into, and most of the babies go back to there mom's or extended
familys. There is mainly older disturbed children or handicapped children that stay in long term care
with constant contact with there familys, which! may be undesirable. A lot of couples would not get
past or cope with the situations. Adoption! there are no babies to adopt anymore as the new human rights
law gives all the rights to the mother, it doesn't matter how bad she may have been. The main thing
now is to work to reunite them. So that in most cases " Foster or adopt" won't be an alternative.
Regards
Denese

Hi Tracy,
I agree with you!! but the women who are vetted are usally financial secure and professional women, who have careers like doctors, solicitors ect; that haven't  had the time for a relationship. Then of course there are the couples where the man is sterile. or the women with damaged fallopian tubes. I do beleve laws for everyone or no one!
If you had ever seen someone who has wanted a baby for years, then they have one, the emotions,
are heart breaking. It used to be adoption but! there are very few babies now, since the human
rights laws. It would be an ideal world if all children were concieved by love, but 99% are though
having sex. If it was love there would never be break ups in relationships, or divorces. 
Regards
Denese

Desperation is not a term I would use in the context of wanting children. 

Unless of course you are using it in the same sense that I am desperate to be thin, gorgeous and incredibly wealthy..................... ;)

Not being able to have children is unfortunate but hardly life threatening.

Divorce or break up does not mean love never existed in the first place, merely that it has died or been destroyed............

>Not being able to have children is unfortunate but hardly life threatening.

It can drive some women to suicide. :(

That is their choice, how sad that their lives are so empty that they cannot think of anything more worthwhile to do in their own lives than to have children.

If they love children so much they could work with them, care for them, teach them etc etc etc

Perhaps it is not children per se that they want, or their welfare but rather a possession or trophy?

Perhaps women that are that mentally unstable should not have children anyway...........

Have you ever considered offering your services to the Samaritans? You'd clear their books PDQ. :rolleyes:

Hardly... what about the outside pressures of the husband, the want-to-be-grandparents, the expectations placed on the woman? All of these could easily be the trigger that pushes the woman over the edge.

I feel very, very sorry for women who cannot bear children naturally - it must be a dreadfully heavy cross to bear.

Hi tohme,
But ! love has to be two ways, it could be the man that moves on, in most cases
it is, for a variety of reasons, so if the divorce or break up it still leaves the women a one parent.
And she has to carry the stigma and prejudice that goes with it.
Regards
Denese

Teaching and doing other things with other peoples children is not the same as having your own child, I'm sorry but it's not.

My parents used to foster and also nearly adopted a child, unfortunately for my parents it fell through on the last hurdle, (can't go into the reasons why).  Yes they did love those children wonderfully but I don't think it was the same love as they had for myself and my brother.

I am not "the typical" British woman as I believe the Tories see as being a typical woman, sleeping with the first man that offers, having one night stands etc. but I would love to have children.  Unfortunately the chance may not come along as I'm only interested in having a relationship that I hope will be long lasting, a one night stand never has and never will appeal to me.  I feel that I could give a child what they needed but as I say I don't think it will happen, although of course one never knows I'm still on the look out :d

Yes I suppose I'm a rarity and people sometimes think I'm weird but I'm proud of my beliefs.

I do feel for people who think that this is the way to go though.  I actually do know someone who is thinking of doing this.  I don't think it's for me but hey I can't say that it never will be.

I will always be against it where it is only done because of religious beliefs etc. due to only wanting a certain sex.  Also would be totally against it being where you can tell the hair colour, eye colour etc.  I think that all children should be loved and it shouldn't matter what sex they are or how they look.

>Teaching and doing other things with other peoples children is not the same as having your own child, I'm sorry but it's not.

I couldn't agree more! Talk about rubbing salt into the wound! :(

Hi perrodeagua,
I do agree with your first sentence, But! it is the nearest thing! I did have my two adopted children
one at 6days one at 12 weeks. I had also had three of my own before and one after.
I would give my life for them! You have never experienced that special love untill you have had a child.
I feel very deeply. For women that can not have children,  I am also "Not one of those tipical British women" I have very strong morals and views. I hope you meet some one who you love and your
wish comes true. But!! never say No!! if you found you could not concieve without help, and it was
offered why not take the offer a!!
Regards
Denese

As I said my parents used to foster and almost adopted a child but things happened in his family which unfortunately, though fortunately for him made my parents unable to adopt.

I in no way say that I would never foster or adopt, but if I ever had the chance I would love a child of my own, but if I had the chance and it wasn't to happen then I would definitely go down the "adoption" route.  I don't know whether I could cope with the fostering side of things, unless I did longterm fostering as I know that I would become to attached and couldn't cope with having to see them leave so quickly.  Although again in this scenario I know that unless I did do this I wouldn't really know whether I could or couldn't cope.  Life throws up many things that we feel beforehand that we wouldn't be able to deal with but we do when the time comes.

Hi perrodeagua,
Foster and adoption has changed greatly. Fostering is very heart breaking. But! then again, you love some,
like others, just care for some, and look for the light at then end of the tunnel in others.
I once had twins at 3 weeks old, no contact with there family, then at 2 & 3/4 years Social worker just came in and removed them within a week. With little ones saying "don't let the lady take me mommy!!"You never get over it! Never to see them again. It has happend many times in the past. The trouble with long term is they still have there own family contact. There is a lot of babies coming into care, but! they now try to get them back against all odds sometimes with there familys.
Regards
Denese

Such a tough subject and unless you know, first hand, the pain of infertility, you can't even begin to understand. I was/am a very moral person and from a young age decided to wait for the 'right man' !. Well, I'm not ashamed, in fact I'm proud that I stuck to that - even though I was 26 before I met the man that I knew was the one (not that I didn't have offers - I wasn't a moose !!!). Anyway, cutting it short, we are now 42 and childless. How ironic that I wait for the right man to come along, marry him - with all the dreams and plans of children and grandchildren, to then discover that he can't have children. Yes, things were hard when we first found out 10 years ago but despite the odd 'blip' (including one on here last year when just the name given to cousins baby bought back the early sadness) I can honestly say that we have coped with it and accept it. It's proved to me that the man I married was the right one - would I still have married him if I'd known beforehand ? - yes I would. Not having children hasn't ruined our lives and when I hear of people putting themselves through the incredible stress and danger of IVF I just wish sometimes that they could see a brighter future. Egg & sperm donation - no thanks, I wanted my husbands baby, not another mans. Sometimes, maybe, it's just not meant to be.
Val

:d  Well I'm 34 and proud to be the way I am.  I feel sorry for the people who say that they couldn't do without it and couldn't live the way that I live.  I'm not a person who says not before marriage just someone who values herself and wants to be in a relationship that's going to last :d

I'm not bad looking either, even though I say so myself and have had plenty of offers.

Unfortunately I have a wonderful father and no male as yet has come anywhere near the standard that I think my dad is :d  God, he'd kill me if he saw this!! 

God, am I really saying this to a bunch of people I don't know??  As I say I don't care because I'm happy the way that I live, but hopefully one day soon the right guy will be just around the corner.  My mum and dad are desperate for grandchildren though, although I tell them that they've got a number of four legged grand-children.  My dad was recenly in hospital where I work and he was telling all the nurses that I know that he'd had enough of waiting :d  BLESS.

Hi perrodeagua,
I am going to tell you a secret!!! No!! one will ever be as good as Dad!! I think that is what
I built my ideal man on! My Dad was in the second world war, Taken prisioner tortured. Before he married
my Mom when the war was over he spent two years in hospital recovering. He would never discuse it,
he used to say you have to move forward. He was a stong moral man full of love, never bad mouthed
anyone. He would have made an excellent councillor, time for everyone. I do admit I was a Dad's girl.
And I thought I could never have moved on when on night he dropped dead after tea. He did walk me down the isle, and was over the moon when I had my first three girls, they became his life. I can see where
your Dad is coming from, he loves you and wants to love your children. You never know what is round the corner!
Regards
Denese

Lovely to read about the love you and your dad had for each other, Denese.

It'd be sad if changes to the fertility laws meant that children were unable to experience that special life enriching love, wouldn't it ?

Hi tyby,
I agree, but! my girls havn't had the love of there father niether has my son. So not many men
match up to my Dad. That's why I say in a perfect world. I have tried to make up the love for both
parents, it is hard and even harder for a son! But! all my children are stable. One has 3 children works in child care. one has two and is a midwife, the third works in an office and married But!! her samoyed
is her baby and she loves horse riding, I don't think she wont's children, but her husband does, gives her
a hard time over it. fourth she has 1 child works in child care, 5 daughter is handicapped, 6 my son and he has just passed his exams in building. My babies now are my Sams. It has been hard work, But! all worth it.
Regards
Denese

Hi Val
My circumstances are almost identical to yours in that I married the right man but found out that we couldn't have children together.  We've had over 30 good years of marriage and have centred our lives around family, friends and, of course, our beloved dogs.
Strangely I know of more women of my generation who haven't had children than ones who have - so at least we're not alone :)

Arched What a great e-mail! I found myself in a similar situation, partly of my own making. Having married at 18 and decided that I was far too young to have a family, we set out on challenging carears. When 20 years later I came up for air and had a job that did not involve long periods away from home I was nearly 40 and my body was frankly past it. My 2 closest friends did the same thing and  were lucky enough to concieve natrually, although one had a bit of a scare during pregnancy that the baby would have Downs, an the other is struggling to adapt to getting up in the night at 40. I confess that when I heard she was pregnant I spent the night sobbing my heart out, but pulled myself together and now focus on leaving my mark on the world in other ways and trying to ensure that the children of close friends and family know that they have adult friends who are there for them and  somewhere to come if they need some space as teenagers.

Personally I beleive that it is wrong to tamper with nature in this way and that far too many people want a baby as a designer accessory to make their life 'perfect', but still want to carry on living just as before. Roll on the day when mothers are encouraged to stay at home at least for the first 5 years.  

You and me both then girl.  I am long term celibate, having only had one husband and one other relationship (on the rebound from the ex-husband), since that didn't work out (we were looking for different things out of it, and I didn't want a long term casual affair with having kids to consider), and have remained unattached and uninvolved for 12 years.

I am lucky in a way as I have had the motherhood part first, and kids are now 14 and 18, so the single route suits me and I loose nothing by it.  I do wonder if somtimes women grasp at any relationship, as the biological clock is all too real for our sex with a shorter sensible reproductive life.  After all men can and do father children from teens through to 70's, for women the sensible option really gives us 20 to 35, only around 15 years, earlier and later is more problematic.

Why is everybody so bothered with it? People have children naturally for all sorts of reason's, some because thats what they want to do, some because they want a house and benefits, some by accident, some to abuse and mistreat the child, and we have no control over that, but at least with I.V.F. and other treatments, some 'vetting' is involved in why the person/s want a child, surely this is better? I personnally think they should tighten the laws over people who can concieve naturally, but then maybe that makes too much sence? JMO :D

Hi Natalie 1212,
I agree! When you see some women having children, say 4! taken in to care then another, taken in to care,
then another, egh!! I get angry! I would make a law to sterilize them or stop there money! But! it is
against human rights!! Then, I see couples that have problems that would make good parents.
With years of experience in it, it doesn't help just makes you wiser. Every one is entitled to a mistake even
two, but! not constant. If a women had children in care, I would, place the others striaght for adoption.
As if you have a baby young enough you can bond, they could be placed at the latest 3 months. But!!
The new laws don't permits it. Not fair on the little ones.
Regards
Denese

Ooooh, I've just been chatted up by a doctor, maybe things are a changing :d :d

aka Perrodeagua

>Not fair on the little ones.

Exactly!!! :(