Why do GSDs have such low down hips nowadays?! It really annoys me. I was reading dog world and there was a picture of a GSD with horrid hips. He was a champion. He might as well of been sat on the floor. Why would you want to breed from that dog?!! Surely you would produce more GSDs with bad hips.

It's mostly show bred GSDs with bad hips. So it must be the judges. I think GSDs aren't going to be able to stand in the future!!!  
I recently saw a GSD walking and his hocks were dragging on the floor!!!!! What is the world of dogs coming to? Even bulldogs are going downhill.

Horrible isnt it :(

>It's mostly show bred GSDs with bad hips. So it must be the judges. I think GSDs aren't going to be able to stand in the future!!!  <

Well it isn't in the show bred GSDs I know who all come from low scored parents

How do you tell a dog with bad hips without scoring ? please enlighten me FYI I had a BC with severe HD-no he was never lame he never had any trouble walking, running or sitting & did not have> low slung hips<so how did I know he was X rayed, but if you had seen him in the street or working you would never have known. So how do you tell of a dog has HD just by looking at it move ? Wrong sorry

>I recently saw a GSD walking and his hocks were dragging on the floor!!!!! What is the world of dogs coming to?<

The dog was walking with it's hocks on the floor ? BTW the hock is a joint & not the bone between the hock joint & the feet, so what you are saying is the dog was dragging it's back feet & rear pasterns(the bone between the hock joint & feet on the back legs)it must have been bunny hopping with the pasterns flat to the floor, that is something I have never seen not even in a GSD with no hip joints at all(scored 106) he wobbled a bit but never dragged his back legs nor pasterns

Does this sound like how the dog was moving

>Initially, the dog does not seem to realize what position his rear legs are in; soon he will begin to drag his toenails and the top part of his paws, and may tremble as if palsied. The dog sooner or later begins to atrophy in the haunches and croup. He may "dance" with the rear limbs because he does not realize how high he is stepping. Proprioception is the ability of the animal to recognize the location of his limbs, and this is increasingly lost in the afflicted dog. He will get his hocks "tangled up" (one hooked behind the other) and trip over them or drag both<

How do you know it was HD & not Degenerative Myelopathy ? Do you know what DM is ? Do you know how it manifests itself ?

The above are clinical signs of DM & has nothing to do with the structure of the dog as it occurs in all types of GSD from the Ultra English to German & also pet & non pedigree GSD that are nothing like show dogs.

Edited to add I don't know what dog you wrote of but how did you know he had HD & that he produced HD ???

Good post MM, ;-)  DM is a prime example of how some GSD's walk with neurological deficits in the hind quarters.  Nothing to do with hips at all.  Disc disease can be another.

I'm off to tell Spender that he really needs to be careful where he puts those hind legs in case people think he has bad hips.  This is the dog that has a hip score of 4.4 but he had spinal surgery for spinal cord compression 7 months ago. ;-)

Obviously, his back was shaved for surgery and we overheard some walking past who knew diddly squat commenting on how he must have mange.  Huh! :rolleyes:  There were rather red faced when they were told the full story.  ;-)

BTW, I haven't seen Dog World.  As a matter of interest, who was the GSD champion?

OK it may not have been the hips but there was no need to be so sarcastic with lurcherlover... I certainly know what she means by GSD's with extremely low slung hips, this is not normal. Just because this poster didnt diagnose the correct disease etc does not mean u had to be some rude....... How about explaining nicely next time.

LL made these very misleading comments

"It's mostly show bred GSDs with bad hips. So it must be the judges. I think GSDs aren't going to be able to stand in the future!!!"

"I was reading dog world and there was a picture of a GSD with horrid hips"

All the German GSDs have to be hip tested & permission to breed is witheld if they have HD so how can they be adding to HD ? Also if there is no hip score with the photograph how can LL know the dog has HD ? BTW this weeks DW has no GSD champions featured There is an American GSD(which has a different breed standard to the German/FCI one & the UK breed standard

USA

Topline-- The withers are higher than and sloping into the level back. The back is straight, very strongly developed without sag or roach, and relatively short.

Hindquarters
The whole assembly of the thigh, viewed from the side, is broad, with both upper and lower thigh well muscled, forming as nearly as possible a right angle. The upper thigh bone parallels the shoulder blade while the lower thigh bone parallels the upper arm. The metatarsus (the unit between the hock joint and the foot) is short, strong and tightly articulated. The dewclaws, if any, should be removed from the hind legs. Feet as in front.

UK

Withers long, of good height and well defined, joining back in a smooth line without disrupting flowing topline, slightly sloping from front to back.

Hindquarters
Overall strong, broad and well muscled, enabling effortless forward propulsion of whole body. Upper thighbone, viewed from side, sloping to slightly longer lower thighbone. Hind angulation sufficient if imaginary line dropped from point of buttocks cuts through lower thigh just in front of hock, continuing down slightly in front of hindfeet. Angulations corresponding approximately with front angulation, without over-angulation, hock strong. Any tendency towards over-angulation of hindquarters reduces firmness and endurance. <

German

The back, including the loins, is straight and strongly developed yet not too long between the withers and the croup.

The withers must be long and high, sloping slightly from front to rear, defined against the back into which it gently blends without breaking the topline.

The croup is long and slightly angled (approximately 23 degrees). The ileum and the sacrum are the foundation bones of the croup. Short, steep or flat croups are undesirable.

The upper thigh bone when viewed from the side joins the only slightly longer lower thigh bone at an angle of approximately 120 degrees.  The angulation corresponds roughly to the forequarter angulation without being overangulated.<

You will note that over angulation & steep toplines are no faults in the american breed standard, unlike the UK/WUSV versions so whilst this dog conforms to the USA standard it is overangulated for the two others

So I still want to know how LL can tell a dog has HD without it being X rayed or seeing the X plates or score ?

I have lost three dogs to DM & the dogs have no pain & whilst they are able to walk even wobbling they can still have a quality of life, unlike a dog crippled withthe pain of HD with will not do(my BC had no pain with his hips)

hi mm. i have recently lost my 9 year old baby girl to bone cancer, when i feel i can get another gsd what im i looking for in the hip scores?
im really worried about getting it wrong.
thanks
donna

No body's being rude Zoe, and perhaps I was a little sarcastic.  No offence intended Lurchlover. 

However, your post was misleading. I have yet to see a GSD walking with his hocks dragging on the floor unless the dog was dragging its hind paws as a result of a neurological problem which is nothing to do with hips or judges.  That comment could have quite easily been made about my dog 7 months ago.  So please forgive my sarcasm.

With regards to extremely low hips, I know what is meant but they are not all low and not all show bred lines are low, however in the stack position or stance, they do look lower than they actually are.  But it's also about movement.  There is a German import to the USA, Dux vom Haus Barder, who is doing a lot of winning at the moment.  In a stack position, he looks very, very low, but on movement he's quite level and a stunning mover he is too.  

Your second replys were much more benificial ;)

I tyhink you are mixing up the actual conformation and the traditional show stance that has the dogs back legs in a stride thereby taking the croup lower.  When standing they will ahve the topline similar to any other wel angulated breed like the Boxer for example, but longer as the Boxer is square.

Hi everyone

thankyou for your replys, i have had trouble with my computer so not been able to reply. I am terribly terribly sorry if i caused offence to anyone and i didn't want to sound misleading. I should have worded my post better.

Regarding hips, what i meant was GSD's hips are becoming more and more low slung and this appears to be apparent in show bred GSD's than 'pet ones' in my opinion. Although i do not know about this breed, so alot of you breed experts may say im wrong.

The champion in dog world i saw had incredibly low slung hips and i thought it looked disgusting and breeding from him i thought would just produce more GSD's with very low slung hips which i think is awful. This is just my opinion.

Don't get me wrong im not slating the breed as my mum used to own one when i was younger and he was lovely. He was 'normal'. (He had a straight back when standing, not sloping where his hips nearly touch the floor).

The GSD i saw walking, actually walked on his hocks and he had sores on his hock joints. I worded this wrong in my previous post.

I did not intend to be misleading or offensive. I certainly did not want to cause an argument.
I find this site is a good soure of advice and information and i do not want to become enemys with anyone. :)

Hi Lurchlover,

There is a thread in the visitors section -

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?tid=74548

There are some good points on this regarding the anatomy of the GSD. :-)  

   

Thanks for that. There are plenty of good points. They are gorgeous. It's just in show breds i hate their very low slung hips. They look much better with straight backs. :)