Morning

I am a first time dog owner and have a beautiful 13 week old pointer puppy.  Yesterday after playing he had what I can only describe as a 'mad few minutes' when he was totally out of control - biting me and tearing my skirt to shreds!  I told him 'no' and shut him in the kitchen for an hour to calm down.  Although this seemed to work at the time, this morning he went for me again.  I think he's only playing but I still find it difficult to know how to deal with the situation as he's a big dog already and has really sharp teeth.  Im worried that he'll try to 'play' with one of the children we meet on the park and end up really hurting them.  He's a lovely dog and we do appreciate that he is only a baby and is still learning however I'd be really grateful for any advice as to how to train him out of this behaviour.  Thanks.

Morning Rach...I have the same problem with my Rottweiler puppy and recently posted a question regarding this.  Someone very kindly sent me a link to a website which i printed and am putting into practice with a great deal of success. 

http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

I'm sure Teri who forwarded me this wont mind me jumping in first and letting you share this web site.

keep safe
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I get really confused when it comes to the best means of dealing with play biting. I read The Culture Clash, and that suggests allowing play biting, but teaching your dog to know what 'soft' biting is and what 'hard' biting is, so it doesn't suggest that biting per se is bad because it is a natural behaviour for a dog. However, most books (like Gwen Bailey's) say that biting should be discouraged straight away, but making a fist with your hand, and turning away, or refusing to play (which The Culture Clash also advocates if your dog hurts you when play biting), so what do you do?

My mother-in-laws GSD would play bite, but we would just say no and give her a toy as an alternative, but my partner did let her mouth at his hands, only in the context of playing while sittingon the floor in a very calm way - and she learned to be very gentle, and she never ever went through an aggressive play biting stage at all. I am not sure if we were just lucky with her, or if the tactic used taught her about the limits to play biting. Can anyone advise on the best course of action? I am collecting my 7 week old GSD puppy tomorrow (and am very nervous) and could do with some clarification on issues such as this, which can be hard to fathom from different books.

I think the problem occurs if a pup is stopped straight away from biting so that it never learns about inhibition. Thats when you have a dog who, once it's grown, may not know how to regulate its bite and may, in an accident (owner shuts door on dog's tail for instance) bite in panic and bite far too hard. I believe an actual case of this is mentioned on the link given as an example :)

If you have a pup who is gradually lessening its bite over a period of time, and ideally will stop and get off if you say, you can be fairly sure it  has bite inhibition and has learnt about the strength of it's bite. So the ideal re bite inhibition may be to have a pup that learns to mouth very softly by the time it is mabye 18-20 weeks old. At the age of 7 -8 months the teeth are settling into the jaw, so again the dog will need to chew and may "bite" a bit more around this time.

Lindsay
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/Rachandnero,

It will be play and you may like to try having a toy ready to redirect him onto - a tuggey is good as you can wiggle it to get attention. Over time he must learn to not do this chasing and grabbing thing but this won't happen straight away. You can also use a handful of thrown treats to distract in situations where you know he is most likely to do this; this isn't rewarding the pup, but it will get him into the habit of not grabbing at you and over the weeks/months this can be stopped. It's often about "habit".

Ensure he has plenty to chew and play with and do some structured training with him for a few minutes twice a day as this will build up a relationship where he looks to you for his cue as to what to do.

Dogs respond differently, but a sharp "ah!" can be useful on occasion, and then reward profusely if this stops him; it's my "information word" for my dog if she gets too excited and I don't over use it, it's also not a punishment but is a stern "excuse me madam" type thing. Remember to reward for when he redirects himself on to his toy instead of grabbing you, and praise any good choices of behaviour made by him.

hth a bit, you can also train Off at a later stage (clicker training is great for this).

IF he is really persistent, you can use a method of "3 strikes and you're out" which means that he gets taken out once for a few minutes, then if he does it again, for a few more minutes, and if he does it yet again, for about 20 minutes to half an  hour as a "time out" for both of you :P  This is done with no nagging or telling off, just a word such as "ah!" and then take him out, if he turns it into a chase game, use a long line on him in the house (but for safety take this off when you go out and leave him).

Try to ensure he doesnt' get too wound up and overexcited or you are setting him up to fail ;)

Lindsay
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Thanks for all of the advice.  We'll start implementing some of the ideas today.  Im sure we can overcome this problem as like I said other than this one issue he's been brilliant - we've only had him 3 weeks and we're already totally besotted!
Rach x

Hi Rachand Nero,

Your pup sounds normal to me - we've had our Lab 3 weeks too.  The best piece of advice I ever got was to get a copy of 'Perfect Puppy' by Gewn Bailey - loads of really useful practical advice you can dip in and out of - £12.99 well spent in my view, tips on training and bite inhibition that work a treat!  Our pup nips other people occassionally (my OH and hopefully his mum if I'm really lucky ;) ) But she knows only to 'mouth' me as I've reinfoced it from day one.

You basically need to make your hand into a fist as she bites it - so your finger are more protected and then yelp like another puppy would - our pup reacs instantly to this.  If we've got a toy handy we also distract her with that with the other hand to teach her that toys are for chewing not hands!

It's great being a new dog owner isn't it?  I love it!!!  You'll find this site really useful too!
Good luck
Nicky x

Hi There

I too have a puppy a GSD who is just over 12 weeks, he did play bite at first and drew blood on a couple of occasions I was worried because I have small grandchildren, they are fine if they stand still but if they run..Oh dear!!! After a couple of days they have all learnt to stand still when Kody comes running, he just sniffs them then finds something more interesting to play with.  I have told him off with a sharp OUCH, (it really did hurt) and I am amazed how quickly he realised that it wasnt the thing to do, a couple of times when playing he has gone to grab my arm and almost stops himself midway as if he remembers, now he lickes me instead.  He did tend to do it when over excited, so now I am really calm with him and speak very softly and it seems to work miracles.....only hope it lasts!!!!

Ahh the good ol puppy nibbling. What i do is a combination of differnt techniques. First i hold their muzzle gently and give them a "No bite" , cross my arms and walk the other way. I praise for licks , now when i put out my hand i get covered in drool!

Act hurt , "OUCCCH" or a loud yelp. Sometimes i fall to the ground. it works!

The "OUCH" certainly isn't working for me or anyone that tries it, even if i do it in many different volumes and tones. I've even done the "being murdered tone" as I like to call it. The pup goes straight to the hard bite, hardly no mouthing. I've been trying the leaving the room idea too, so has everyone else in the family. This really doesn't seem to work at all if anything when you come back in that makes him double excited and play bite more.

I'm starting to think of yelling now...

Hmmm this sounds quite good
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/bite2.html

Oh that's scarey stuff on that link - talking about pinning a puppy down - can only teach your puppy that humans can be bullies and aren't to be trusted :(

The technique Gwen Bailey (author of 'The perfect puppy' and 'Puppy School') recommends is to say 'ouch'firmly and loundly and when the puppy takes a step back and looks at you, offer an apropriate toy and encourage play with this....

But that only works if the puppy does take a step back. Pushy pups think you're playing. =/ When Toby was a puppy the prefect puppy book worked wonders. But little Oscar it doesn't work what so ever, if anything it makes him bite more hard, thinking that you are indeed playing. I think puppies that haven't had many rough houseing games or soft mothers who took the bites from their puppies, just won't get it. The only thing that does seem to work with oscar is gently pin him (on his side not back) and talk to him gently until he clams down. Soon as he has calmed I praise him lots and carry on playing. Someone on here mentioned they did it with their bearded collies. It works so I'm thankful to them. :)

My puppy was nicknamed the Mad Bitey Puppy; she is a BSD so an interesting mix of sensitive and "strongminded" and she was the most active and in some ways top pup of the litter. She would lunge and nip and then run off, and was so agile she could run circles around us :P  She also had the normal crazy puppy/adolescent biting "attacks" where they turn it all into a huge game. I trained her not to bite using the methods i have outlined above in an earlier post  of mine, we never needed to use any tactics other than voice, time outs etc :)

It may take until weeks 15 - 20 or slightly more to stop a puppy, much depends on owner consistency, experience, whether they have children, another dog/dogs, time given to training, and environment and lots more. I get concerned  when i read so many posts saying "my pup is x weeks and we can't stop it biting" because I often feel people are expecting too much and don't realise just how hard one has to work to have a well brought up puppy. It is the one thing puppy owners are most upset about, and I can't help feeling that so many are just not prepared.

Lindsay
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digger said the link was about pinning your dog , NO. In any case doing an "alpha roll" , pinning your dog on his back and holding his neck can cause your dog to thrash viciously. He thinks you are trying to kill him , pinning doesn't work.

Becks , sometimes it will come to yelling and that is ok. I frequently must yell "NO! , OWW!" at my pup , it gets the message to him and he knows you mean serious buisness.

Quoted from the link given:- 'She'd roll them over, pin them down for no apparent reason' - if that's not describing pinning a dog down, perhaps you could explain Manny?

Digger i was agreeing with you that pinning your dog down is wrong and leads to more agression.