I have recently been told of a lady who bought a pugalier from somewhere in Wales for £300  and is adamant it is KC registered. Are people getting more gullible? It makes my blood boil that people are breeding these dogs to make a quick buck. Apparently it is a fashionable kind of dog at the moment......

Yes guest, I think people are getting more gullible. Even on here I've had arguments about whether certain Labrador crosses are a "Breed". Does my blood pressure no good at all!

Regards, John

There is at least one kennel in Wales specialising in Pug cross Cavs, Westies, etc.  they use a pug dog on another small, popular, easy whelping breed.  Give them a fancy name, then convince people how much they are saving against a genuine pug!  Thsii cross amazes me, these may be dogs with serious personality conflicts.  There are probably no 2 toy breed with characters further apart than pugs and cavs.With these designer crosses (as thye advertise ;themselves) people can be conned into believing anything!  And of course, ti may well be DLRC reg!
bye
Gwen

Not another one - thought it was bad enough with all the -poo crosses - so now we've got the pug-crosses as well! :(

So when will people start thinking about using leonbergers for crosses - just think of all the -bergers we could have - labrabergers, aussiebergers - oh yes - we could have a double cross - pug/poodle cross leonberger - then we could have a pugapooberger

Margot

& what big Poos they would produce :O

Cross a bad actor with a leonberger ... hamberger!
Cross a fallow deer with a leonberger ... bambiberger!

Is it suppertime yet? ;) :D

Do all those Bergers come with side salad :D :D

All us Spitz owners are sitting on a fortune. Mate any sort of Spitz with a Shih Tzu & we'd could sell - Shitz. Or to a Tibetan Terrier/Spaniel/Mastiff and get - Titz!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Or if you can get a breeder to sell you 2 you could have a pair of Titz !!!!

I have a year old pugalier purchased from Wales.She is the most inteligent personality I have ever come across.Shas the intelligence of both breeds,who incidently have very similar characteristics.Pugs are fantastic for children they are patient,obedient and loyal as are cavaliers.The breeders were excellent and very open and willing to any inspectionn at anytime.Dilys was 8 weeks when we had her and I have to say one of the best dogs I have ever owned.The name comes from america of course only they could come up with that !What ever cross you purchased would be a worry but if both parents are seen and are sound then the pup should be okay.The breeder at no time suggested that my pup was KC Reg but of course both parents were.

Dare I ask how much was paid for this X breed ?

& were any health tests done on either parent ?

Yes both parents were health tested as they were breeding from them both to produce the cross deliberatly.

What health tests were done please?
Archer

Yes I paid £275.

Hi Nickyallis.

I see you like Pugliers. I do to and so do my parants and so I am trying to find one or two. Could you let me know where you got yours?
thanks.

Mongo

>Shas the intelligence of both breeds,who incidently have very similar characteristics.Pugs are fantastic for children they are patient,obedient and loyal as are cavaliers.

Why not go for either a pug OR a cavalier, then?  Not trying to be rude, just curious :)

I would think anyone with an SHM clear cavalier would not waste it breeding mongrels how very strange they would get more from breeding cavaliers & help improve the breed

Would have loved pure pug but far to expensive saw photo and was hooked. (almost pug like!) also doesnt have the long hair of a cav. Gorgeous.

what health tests did the parents have done please
Archer

Sorry can't remember exactly, definitely hips,knees,eyes one other just can't remeber off hand ! All checked out by there vet and mine.

All checked out by their vet and mine!!!   Normal vets know nothing re. eyes, elbows or hips.  They can tell what's good and what's bad, but they are definitely not experts on scores etc. so if this is all the persons done then they haven't been health tested.

Cavaliers can have bad hips the highest recorded up to January 2005 was 92, as it only goes up to 106, this isn't very promising.  Pugs only had 9 done up to January of this year in total, not a lot seeing how many are in the country, think the highest was 52 or around that.

So I will be surprised if this person has had them properly done, especially the Pugs although of course I could be wrong and hold my hands up if I am.

I'm not getting at you at all.  But as an occasional breeder of a breed where our Club now insists on eyes and hips being done, it annoys me that other breed owners find it easy to call other breeds but if they don't health test their breed themselves I don't understand how they can do this.

Exactly as I thought...these ARE NOT health tests!!! So you paid £275 for a cross breed from UNHEALTH TESTED parents.I don't mean to sound horrible but before recommending things to people you should know what you are on about.Health tests are not just a case of the vet saying...'yes thats a nice dog'.Both breeds I believe suffer from inherited diseases...which CAN be passed on to your pup despite it being a cross...there is no such thing as hybrid vigour!Any health problems your dog has could show up in later life.
Archer

"the intelligence of both breeds,who incidently have very similar characteristics.."....

AS a breeder of Pugs of several years standing, and the owner of severla at the moment, and as a breeder of Cavaliers of 10 years standing, although several years ago, I can assure you that these 2  breeds as dissimilar in almsot all respects, in both conformation ond temperament.  In fact, the only vague similarity I can come up with is that they are among the biggest in the "Toy" group.  Yes, theycan bothbe good family pets, but in very different ways!  The pug is full of its own importance, in most cases, supremely confident and very demanding!  they have a great sense of humour, and will only be trained as far as they see fit.  They are quite willing to sulk for hours if things dont go there way.  Cavaliers, onm the other hand are very sweet and pliable in nature, they are easy to train, being desperate to please, they are, often, very subservient.  I could go on and on, but would bore most people.  Physically,  they are very different too. 

I am sure you adore your girl, and am pleased she is happy and healthy, but others should be aware that there are not good reasons to do deliberate cross bred matings of this kind.  People buying such a pup have no idea at all which parent the pup will turn out to take after, what it will look like, and what problems it may have.  Luckily pugs dont have hereditary eye condition, but Cavaliers do, then we have the heart problems on the Cavalier, and whilst neither breed has a big problem wiht HD both can suffer from it, although it is rare to test for it in either.  Then we have the potenital of HV in the pug, with mode of inheritance not yet clear.  SO waht would you test for, how would  you decide the dog and bitch are compatible with no like features to compare?  Woudl be most interested to know waht your pups parents were tested for.

OF course, if she was the result of an accidental mating, well, accidents can happen, but a deliberate mating?  It does not make sense, espcially at the  price you paid - Pugs go for 3-4 times more, and Cavaliers almsot twice as much.  The site I mentioned in the old post on this thread had them advertised for about half Pug price.

Then the name, puppy mills in the USA, and pet stores over ther who sell lots and lots of pups, market these deliberate crosses coming up with cutesy hybrid names.  However, people in the UK are quick to jump on the bandwagon, and if you are breeding a mongrel you can call it anything you want.
It woudl worry me greatly, if I had a dog with pug physical characteristice (eg extreme short nose) but a more Cavalier tendency to over excitement and activity - you would have ot be so careful in hot weather, for instance.
bye
Gwen

HI Gwen, I take on board all of your concerns.Dilys is probably an even mix of temperment.She has the Pug arrogance and is not at all as subserviant as a cavalier.She can be stubborn but has been fairly easy to train. She is happy and the local vets think she is wonderful !
The place in question breed 'proper' dogs as well. I would say the reasons for the crosses are known only to them, and obviously very popular.As you say accidents do happen and of course that is how many of our breeds today originated. So maybe they have other ways of viewing it ! And at the end of the day it is all about making money,however much we love our dogs.
Perhaps i am lucky with Dilys; but I hate to see large breeders get a bad name for no apparent reason other than someone disagrees with an idea.

They get a bad name because cross breeding means that they don't care about the pure bred dogs that they have, if they did they would make sure tht they went to the best dogs available in that single breed and improved on the breed!!

We are all out to make money???????  I'd like you to show me what money I've made in my dogs, I never have though there again I'm not out for quantity only quality.

I health test all my dogs, actually my bank account looks very unhealthy at the moment, but hey, I can be proud of what I've bred and know that I'm trying to do my best to help my breed.

I am afraid that the vast majority of the public assume the only reason to breed a litter is for the money, and the breed is incidental.  A bit like choosing to grow Strawberries or Potatoes and sell them on a stall.

The idea of preserving and improving breeds etc is largely foreign to most people.  they like breed a or br5eed B and there is someone that breeds them, they assume as an income. 

That is why they don't see the problem with Pet shops and large scale breeders and puppy farmers and the corners they must cut in order to make breeding pay, as the way a breed  enthusiast does it soesn't pay.

pugalier is not an American name, it is NOT a name, not a breed . It is a cross-mongrel whatever you want to call it but not a recognised breed. Sorry to say Niki.

To buy this because a pug was more expensive is almost insane in my opinion.  You would have been best to save your money and when you could afford the real thing,  the joy would have been that much better.

Whist there may be a tiny tiny minority in the world who will say oh is it a " pugalier"  how cute the rest will say it is a cross , £50 at the local shelter and you were done.

Don't mean to be hard but I dread people reading these posts and thinking it is OK to pay this kind of money.

People should NOT buy them and if they insist the do pay no more than £50. 

This type of breeding undermines all the hard work breeders of each breed due to protect and enhance their chosen real breed.  :-(

Sorry Niki.

Their vet & yours will not be able to MRI scan for SHM unless they are one of the two centres away from cambridge that has a scanner & as the breeder is in Wales I doubt very much they have Geoff Skerritt as a vet

So odds on the cavalier will not have been scanned for SHM

Niki,

You hate to see Large breeders getting a bad name.. people who life of the revenue for dogs hardly deserve a good  name.  You cannot whelp and rear various breeds at the same time with loads of litters properly and as they should be. Come on surely you can see that. People with triplets get home helps ;-)   

The local vets think she is wonderful I bet the local vet thinks most of his clients are and I bet he wouldn't pay more that £50 .    There are a few dogs I trim that are awful examples of the breed would I tell a paying client that NO :-)

Why do the people breed these dogs if not only for money?

It is a shame and a disgrace IMHO.

£50 for a rescue dog around here it's more like £100 and often means tested !

Well there must be a lot of daft people around ;-)

thats pretty unfair, i paid 150 for a rescue pup, i wanted to rescue a pup as many need homes and the 150 goes towards helping the kennels and for spaying the mother, i dont think i have been done, i think i have made a puppy extremly happy and helped the rescue centre, that cant be a bad thing

Rescueing a pup is something toattly different :D

Maybe...bt by buying these 'Designer' crosees you are encouraging this trade by lining the pockets of these money grabbers.
The parents of the pup you brought were unhealth tested ...they will almost certainly be bad examples of their respective breeds since anyone with a good pedigree will want to breed predigree pups...not fancy named mongrels.
Archer

Archer couldn't have said it better :-)

>>Cavaliers, onm the other hand are very sweet and pliable in nature, they are easy to train, being desperate to please, they are, often, very subservient. 

Not my boy, not subservient!!! :-)

Hello We bought a pugalier from a breeder in Wales just over 2 years ago.

We are desparate for another, but have lost the breeders address, i was just wondering if u knew of anyone?

We live in Cheshire, but willing to travel.

Thanks For Your Time

Chris

Are you not bothered that the people that breed these crosses are doing it for money only! Are you not interested in the fact that the dogs used to produce these dogs have not been health tested,are not good examples of their breeds and are more than likely over bred! Every time someone buys one of the pups it means the breeder will repeat the mating to line their pocket again.
Please read the good advice given and take note....this is a cross breed and if you want a cross breed then go to  a rescue centre and make a donation for a little cross breed in need of a home instead of paying hundreds to a money grabbing back yard breeder  
Archer

For your information we also have resuce dogs as well as a pugalier. We find that the pugalier has the better temprement for children.
I understand that there are people out there that have dogs breed for some sort of fashion accessory, but i can assure you i am not one of them.
Maybe you should spend less time passing judgement on other people?

How can you be sure that the temperament will be the same when you can't verify the origins?

That is the whole point....you will not be able to predict the pups temperament since they can take after either parent or any ancestor and when buying a cross breed the 'breeders' do not research lines or care about temperament.The poeple who breed these crosses would use a dog whatever its health or temperament in most cases as long as they can produce pups.
If you want to 'predict' any thing about how a pup will grow up then you need to buy a pedigree and buy from a reputable breeder who knows their lines and breeds for temperament and conformation.Paying hundreds of pounds for a cross is paying into  very expensive lottery with very poor odds
Archer

OMG not more pug crosses???? why has the pug been targeted like this?  :(
Carol

I think the second Men in Black may have a lot to do with it, as did legall;y blond with another small toy breed.

Hmmm how about a rodent x Pug  = Guineapugs :D

Yvonne

Lol! :D

..or even a pig with a leonberger - PROPER hambergers :D

Hi Carol, i think because Pugs are small, cute adn often appear in the media (films, ads etc)  they are a target for the puppy farms.  Howeve, as a "hard to whelp" breed, they are not an ideal mass produced dog, hence the "designer pug hybrids".  The kennel I mentioned has a sickeningly schamltzy intro about their pug crosses, about how their pug boy is  such a ladie man that they cannot keep him out of all the yong ladies rooms at night, resulting in the many pug crosses they have for sale :(
bye
Gwen

Yeugh!!!  Definintely a "fingers down the throat" emoticon required for that twaddle!

Margot

Thank you Gwen, makes sense! feels so sorry for poor pugs :(
That add sounds really gross, how can those people talk about their pug boy like that? looks like they will do/say anything just to get buyers, he is obviously not a loved part of the family like he deserves :( poor baby, what they are saying about him is just disturbing, I feel so sorry for him :( :(
Carol XXX