Hi, I took Oscar over the woods this morning before it got too hot. We were only gone about 10/15 minutes as I had to go out. On the way home he started to stagger and he was falling from side to side and then he collapsed. He was soon up on his feet again but staggering in circles and he looked very strange and his legs kept buckling. He quite often circles on the way home from walks when he is very out of breath but this was much worse. I took him straight to the vets who game him something to bring his heart rate and temp (103 degrees) down. They are going to do an ECG tomorrow to check his heart.
I wondered if it was the heat but the vet said he should still have been able to cope with a short walk.
Has anyone else had experience of this?
Very worried. :(
Thanks.

Anyone?
I could really do with some advice please :(

Apart from his heart an inner ear infection can leave an imbalance problem, sometimes mistaken for a stroke in dogs. Does he have any head tilt at all ?

Very difficult to advise without seeing him

Is he ok in the cool at home ?

Thank you Moonmaiden - really appreciate it! :)
The vet didn't check his ears so I will ask him to do so tomorrow. I haven't noticed a tilt but will look out for one now.
He seems absolutely fine now and is curled up asleep. I keep thinking I can't see him breathing though - I'm getting paranoid. :rolleyes:

I would keep the walks to a minimum whilst it is so hot & muggy in the wild the dogs wouldn't be out & about except to hunt so keep him cool at home & paws crossed it's nothing too serious

will do - thank you :)

Hi Rachel
sorry to hear about Oscar, hopefully it isn't anything too serious.  Has he been on any medication recently ? - just wondering if it could be a side effect combined with the heat that made him wobbly.
Let us know how he gets on.

Thanks :)
He's had 3 days on Metacam just over a week ago for his HD (first flare up in months).
I wondered if it could be the heat (although we were in the woods and it was early, so about 20 degrees) combined with the fact that he just goes like a bat out of hell as soon as his lead is off. He doesn't just wander around having a sniff - he runs full pelt pretty much constantly. He's always done that - no matter how many walks he gets. Maybe I'll have to stick to nighttime walks on the lead to keep him at a sensible pace while it's hot.

Rachel, Oscar's and English Spinger isn't he? (forgot to look)

Is it his rear end that is flopping down
What are the muscles on his face behaving (or behaving at the time)
Did the symptoms look similar to heatstroke
Did you notice if his eyes dilated (pupils widen to leave no Iris colour)
Does he hold his head to one side, same side each time
And does he shake his head (a lot)

Yes, he's an ESSpaniel (3 this October)
The rear end was definitely worse although the front end didn't seem to be working properly either.
His face did look odd - not sure why. He didn't look 'with it'. I didn't notice his eyes although the vet checked them and didn't mention anything.
I've never seen heatstroke so I can't compare symtoms.
He does circle the same way each time - always clockwise. I always thought it was because he was still running and didn't have enough lead to run on - so had to circle instead IYSWIM.
I wouldn't say he shakes his head alot but he does shake it a few times a day.

Are you thinking ear infection? He has had 2 infections before.

Ask your vet to test for MG. (Myasthenia Gravis).  symptoms are very similar to heat stroke and can also be mistaken for stroke, ear infections etc.  Its only when the facial muscles come into play that you realise it could be neuromuscular. Temperature rises very quickly, literally like a kettle coming into boil. It also affects the heart muscles.  Until your vet make a diagnosis (of any kind) better safe than sorry. keep him very cool, very little excersise, its not the excersise that sets it off, its the excitment of going for a walk, if you can understand that.  Tests are very simply now, unlike when Megan was diagnosed, they had to be sent to San Diego in California

It may not be this, but in this heat, keep him cool anyway ;)

Thanks Kayc :)
I will ask the vet in the morning.

If it is MG, is that something which can be cured/controlled? 

It is incurable Rachel, but very easily controlled :D  Once Megan was finally diagnosed, took nearly 18 months and a gorgeous French Vet :P , trial and error with medication, she lived a very active and happy life until she was 9, but even then it was not her illness that took her.  I really hope it is something quite simple, but if it is MG, a couple of tablets a day will keep him going strong :)

Edited to add:

http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/demysgrav.html

Have look at this, not a great deal of info on MG, it is still quite rare and most vets will never see an MG patient in their lifetime

Thanks kayc - I really appreciate your help.
I'll let you know how he gets on :)

Just thought I'd update you - after more fainting spells Oscar has been diagnosed with an enlarged heart which is pushing his windpipe towards his spine. He has been given Frusemide and Fortekor until the cause can be established. His results have been sent to a specialist who will probably perform an ultrasound on him. He has lost a little bit of weight and has started to cough. His heart rate is also slower than expected and although the ECG didn't show arrythmias (sp?) it wasn't quite right either.

I'd very much like to hear from anyone who has been through anything similar. Thanks :( :( :(

Have they checked out for other things via blood tests
such as thyroid trouble as this can affect the heart too.
Might be worth asking for blood test to check.

Cardiomyopathy is one heart condition that can cause these symptoms too.
Cardiologist will be the best person to advise & diagnose the heart problems.

Hi Boxacrazy, thanks for your help. His bloods have been sent off too to check things like sodium levels so do you think they will check his thyroid too? It wasn't actually mentioned.

Ask for a thyroid test, ask for a FULL panel, not just T4 levels.  Heart problems are associated with Throid function.  Other symptoms of Hypothyroidism are lethargy, heat seeking and weight gain.  Generally if a dog loses weight with heart problems its more likely to have heart disease or a heart problem itself rather than another underlying problem showing these symptoms.  You say he is on Frusemide too, he must have fluid on his lungs too, those pills will help that immensely and make him feel much better.  Good luck and let us know the outcome, all the best with him.
Dawn.

Thanks Dawn :)
I'll make sure I ask for the full thyroid test. Oscar has lost 3 kilos since last time he was weighed. I did think he'd lost some but we've always found it hard to keep the weight on him. Thanks for your help.

Nothing useful to add, but lots of sympathy - hug for Oscar!

Thanks Lucy :)

Hi Rachel
Any news yet?

We have an 18 month old Bichon Frise. When he was 8 weeks old we had him checked over and vet said he had a heart murmer. At 6 months he had another check and they said it had gone. When he was 14 month old he collapsed when out walking, he turned in circles looking at his back legs. We got a referal to Edinburgh veterinary hospital where, after ECG, ultrasound etc he was diagnosed with having a grade 6 heart murmer and a Patent Ductus Arteriosis (PDA) this is when the artery that bypasses the lungs when in the womb doesn't close off. He underwent heart surgery to tie off the artery and although it was extremely worrying at the time he is now 18 months old and runs more like a greyhound. No more passing out or coughing or looking scared because he's collapsed. I am not implying that Oscar has the same I am just letting you know that once its in the hands of the specialists they know what they are doing and that will be the best for Oscar.
Let us know how you get on.
Deb

Thanks Deb :)
Nope, no more news yet. I'm expecting a call tomorrow to let me know what the specialist thinks of Oscar's ECG/x-rays etc. and to let me know if an ultrasound is required. Oscar's symptoms do sound similar to that of your Bichon Frise - I'm glad your dog is doing so well now. Hopefully Oscar can be successfuly treated too - I've got everything crossed!
Thanks again, Rachel

Oscar is with the specialist cardiologist today.
He feels that although heart disease is a possibility it is not a probability. He is more suspicious of lungworm or asthma. Hopefully by the end of the day we should have a better idea of what we are dealing with. Thank you for all your advice :)

Just in case anyone is still following - Oscar appears to have dilated cardiomyopathy but we are waiting for a final blood test result to confirm this :-( Unfortunately Oscar also seems to be suffering with some kind of respiritory/lung disease as well - possibly lungworm (waiting for more lab results). The next step now is a 24 hour ECG to see what happens to Oscars heart and breathing when he exercises. Basically, if we can sort out his breathing he has a good prognosis....so I'm still keeping everything crossed.

Hi Rachel
I know how you feel, it seems never ending tests. Our thoughts and best wishes are with you and Oscar. Keep us updated.
Deb

Thanks Deb - your good wishes are very much appreciated :-)
Oscar is now coughing up phlegm all the time although he does seem a little better today. He's going in on Tuesday to have the ECG monitor fitted and hopefully the lungworm test should be back soon.
Thanks again :-)

Hi Rachael, sorry I missed this thread earlier. My first IW bitch presented with dilated cardiomyopathy aged 4 in just the way you described way except that she didn't have a raised temp. The DCM was so severe on diagnosis that the specialist cardio vet at the local vet school said she had 6 months maximum. In fact she lived to be 10 years and 7 months, and was in pretty good health until her last few weeks. Best wishes to Oscar.

Thanks Jas :)
It's very encouraging to hear your IW did so well with DC :)
The cardiologist feels that Oscar could easily have another 6-8 yrs as he has responded so well to his tablets - as long as we can sort out his breathing difficulties. I'm hoping it's just lungworm which he said is relatively easy to treat.
Thanks for your good wishes :)

Hope it is just lungworm. I see you're in the right area for it. Glad that the cardiologist is givng you such a good prognosis. The drugs for dogs and humans have improved out of sight since my IW was diagnosed.

Many IW people give CoEnzyme Q and/or L-Carnitine in addtion to the other meds, so you might ask the cardiologist about them. Can't emphasise enough that they are NOT alternatives to the meds the vet has prescribed, and there is only anecdotal evidence that they help, but they can't do any harm either.

Thanks Jas :)
I'll deffo ask about the CoEnzyme Q and L-Carnitine - anything that could help is worth a try.

Hi, if you want to PM me I can send you a copy of a very good artice on DCM writen by an IW breeder/vet.

Good luck with him Rachel, look forward to a POSITIVE update.
Dawn.

Thanks Dawn - me too! :)

Thanks Jas - have PM'd you :)