I'm really getting confused over some rules - please help ( in simple english ;) )

Open Show
Golden Retriever Puppy of 6 months and one week

Enter Breed PUPPY class (no minor class) - not placed first
Enter AV gundog PUPPY class (no minor class) - not placed first

Enter AV MINOR PUPPY - win class

supposing the above happened - would the pup be eligible for best puppy in show ? I presume not because beaten in other classes ? I understand about withdrawing from other classes if for example got first in breed puppy class and so on.

I just can't get my head round what'd happen if won AV Minor Puppy as maybe the dogs who beat you in the other 2 classes are 11 months and therefore not in minor ?

As you may have guessed I'm trying to decide what classes to enter at our first open show. It would be simplest to just win the breed puppy class :D and then I'd know what I was doing (withdraw from other classes and compete for BPIS) but I realise this may not be the case ;)

Do the 3 classes I list seem sensible to enter bearing in mind it is Gundog day at Leeds so entries may not be too large at this open show ? Is 3 a sensible amount of classes for a pups first show ? Also if it makes any difference the Judge for the above classes and BPIS is a Golden Retriever breeder.

We're just looking to enter for the experience but I may get a nice surprise so want to understand the rules.

Thanks in anticipation of someone helping me get my head round it all :D
Sara (and Phoebie)

edited - it says NOT judged on group system so I presume that means no best in group etc which would confuse me even more LOL :D ???

sorry edited again - do winners of all classes including puppy classes go in BIS judging and then BPIS is after ??

Sara - you must be an unbeaton puppy to progress further - speak to me Tuesday - I'll confuse you even more. Jackie H

Just re-read - to go into BIS you must be un -beaten by any other dog of any age - to go into BPIS you must be un-beaten by any other puppy. If you enter lots of classes you can withdraw from further classes to remain un-beaten. This rule is not a simple as it seems - speak to me on Tuesday or e-mail for my phone number.

The AV Minor Puppy may not be until after the BIS [$ BPIS have been judged in which case you can enter the class and if you don]t win BPIS you are free to carry on showing in the stakes or AV classes JH

Hi Sara,
You can withdraw from AV classes if you win the breed class but you can't withdraw from a breed class if you win the Av, therefore taking the risk of becoming a beaten pup.. Best pups must be unbeaten by any other pup in the show, minor pup or puppy. When it says not judged on the group system all it means is there is no group judging, ie working, terrier etc so its all intogether for the BIS judging. BIS is for the BOB's only, you can go in for this if your pup wins the BOB but if your pup just wins BPIB you must only go into the BPIS line up. If you get BOB and BPIB you can go in for both. Still confused? So am I after years at it.

right - thanks Ladies :D

Getting a little clearer now lol

It looks like the AV classes will be after the breed classes (but not certain as order of judging will not come through till the passes are sent but on schedule breed class for me is number 1, gundog number 23 and AV minor number 72) so that makes it easier - if not win breed class still go in AV.

I was forgetting all about BOB & BPIB as no classes shown on schedule which I suppose they wouldn't be really as not exactly classes you can enter :)
There are only mixed sex classes so I presume the winner of breed puppy and breed junior (if under 12 months) compete for BPIB or am I getting this all completely wrong ?? lol

The bit about BOB and BPIB makes sense with regards to BIS or BPIS

Are the stewards REALLY helpful and help you along on the day to understand where and when ? I hope so ! :)

Non of this may be relevent if we're chucked out in every class but I am being optimistic that we won't be and I'll need to know these things :D

Jackie - think I may need about 5 hours of your time on Tuesday !!! I think I've got one bit clear but then it raises another question :D

Sara

Yes, Sara, if the dog that wins Junior is under 12 months of age it will compete with the winner of the puppy class for BPIB. I remember when I first started that was confusing. I was in the ring with the best puppy male and in walked the best puppy bitch...fine..I understood that......then in walked another dog..boy was I confused, and so was the steward I have to say. It was in fact the junior dog who was also a puppy. Stewards vary, some are helpful others are not but don't be afraid to ask for help. You have paid your entry fee like everyone else.

OK Sara happy to help if I am able. You know you don't realise how difficult it is until someone asks questions, then you wonder how you found out yourself or perhaps it was trial and error. Jackie H

We won Best Puppy in Breed, and had entered in an AV class. We were allowed to drop out of that in order to remain unbeaten in case we came tops in Puppy Group. We only got 3rd, but we were glad they let us drop out of the other just in case.
It was her last show as a puppy and we were really pleased. That day she came in 2nd in a Graduate class, then Best Puppy (okay, she was the only puppy) then 3rd out of 6 in Puppy Group! Went out with a BANG:)

Wendy

sara dont worry im as confused as you!!!!! the more it gets explained to me the worce it gets,im just gonna go showing and wait for the knowledge to sink in!!!!!!!!
i think half the problem is the more you read the rules the more your left wondering what the hell it means the kc should fetch out a book about rules and regs.......called plain englisH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you imagin what it's like trying to run a show without braking some rule or the other? JH

lol - nearly impossible I'd think Jackie :D

Hi Steph,
It seems Phoebies breeder will be showing as well that day so I'll have her on hand to ask advice but she did point out she can't hold my hand in the ring :(
I suppose it'll all start to make sense in time (well maybe ;) )
Sara :D