HI ALL

After searching for a stud dog i have found 1 who's ideal?????????????
but what do you all think mating to a full uncle and nice????????????

Thanks

Steve

I have gone as close as half Uncle to neice (the bitches mothers half brother).  Would only consider full uncle if I liked the parent of my bitch so much that I woudl want to really set their traits.  What you ahve to remeber is that both goods and bad traits would be fixed.

I would want to study carefully the health and temperament of the paretn and the Uncle them selves.  This would include gentle probing about any niggling small things that might not be a major issue but certainly don't watn frixing into a line, this oculd be somthing like being very picky with food, a poor doer, or maybe they both are not the best with other dogs, or are a little shyer or hyper than ideal.

I would then want to see what their ancestors were liek for good and bad, and also waht they had already produced to other mates.  You want to know that your bitches parent and his/her brother are able to pass on their outstandign qualities, and few of their faults.

Then I would want to be sure that the Uncle and yoru bitch didn't actuqaly exhibit any of the same faults, and that both ahd better than average health screening results,a dn were fit and vigorous animals.

The possible benefits of close line breeding ALWAYS depends on the virtues and faults of each individual ancestors for at least 3 or 4 generations.  Even dogs further back will influence the pups produced but 3 or 4 generations is a start!
What advice could be given would depend entirely on what you can tell us about each of the dogs on the combined pedigree and their siblings.  A breeder with depth of knowledge could produce fabulous puppies from this mating.  A puppy producer with little or no knowledge could produce puppies who will be liabilites for their new owners for the rest of their lives. :(

Hi, Val and Brainless,
Very intresting! I have had this in mine myself, If all went well they would
be wonderfull dogs. Temprement, looks and health.
But! I do get worried with inbreeding! But!! might take a chance, checked back ect;
Still keep thinking mmm! It's as if, I know what I won't, but! keep weighing pros and cons.
Regards
Denese

I have done close matings but the only thing I would say is really carefully check that there are no illnesses which are hidden in there.  If you know the person well then they will be able to advise you truthfully whether there are any as the chances of any genetic illnesses being passed down are obviously magnified. 

I was delighted by my puppies but you do take the risk.  A friend of mine did a similar mating and 3 puppies with cleft pallette and one with a blue eye although thankfully full hearing.  Think carefully before doing it.

Would you "mate" with your cousin or your aunt or your uncle?  I certainly would not.  I personally think this close breeding is a no-no.

The trouble is with genes, you never know what is going to happen when. You can have generation after generation of, say, blonde hair being predominant in a certain family - and then suddenly a brunette is thrown!  My daughter is a perfect example of that.  My husband is Basque by origin - olive skinned, black haired, tans at the first ray of sunshine.  I am brunette, tall, well built, all my family are statuesque brunettes on my father's side, and brunette but less statuesque on my mother's side.  My daughter is miniscule, blonde, petite, totally unlike my family or my husband's.  She couldn't look less like me or my husband.  Genes have a nasty (or nice) habit of popping their heads up when you least expect it.

Ipso facto, don't court trouble by close-breeding I would say.  I am not a geneticist, neither am I an expert on dog breeding, but to me this is just common sense.  In fact, I would go further and say I think the "mongrel" mating of my husband and I - we probably couldn't be further apart in terms of relationship if we tried - has produced this "new" line.

Hi gnasher,

if you looked back in your ancestory for centuries you and your husband would have no common relations (I'm assuming ;) ) however in most breeds of dog it does not take many generations to find relatives for the simple reason that the gene pool is nowhere near as wide spread as it is in humans :) 

My own breed for example is around 110/120 years old only.  Many of them were killed off during both World Wars and the gene pool decimated (no doubt this happened in many other breeds and lets face it, breeding pedigree stock would not have been a priority during those times anyway).

>Ipso facto, don't court trouble by close-breeding I would say.  I am not a geneticist, neither am I an expert on dog breeding, but to me this is just common sense

You're entitled to your opinion of course but contual outcrossing (unlikely to be available at any rate) would not make common sense in producing good quality, healthy dogs of suitable characters - only by doubling up on the best the breed has to offer are the best traits retained and by not breeding too closely - say common dogs in the third generation or further back - it is possible to identify and dismiss from a breeding line traits which are undesirable.  There's much more to breeding quality animals than you are aware and the ability to contually breed good stock cannot be looked at in direct comparison to another species entirely, i.e. humans :)    Regards, Teri

Thing is Gnasher, if you are trying to breed to a KC Standard, the last thing you want is the canine equivalent of a miniscule blonde (especially if you're in Newfoundlands or suchlike!). That's why people tend to breed closely - to fix type, not to end up with something totally unlike the parents.

In my breed, no one would turn a hair at such a mating BUT - you must be sure of what is behind the parents, and be sure that people have been honest about any problems which have turned up in that line.

Gnasher first cousins are allowed to marry.  This is cultural and moral preference and doesn't apply to animals.  A dog will happily mate his daughters and sons their mothers.

My paternal grandmother was the result of a marriage between first cousins.  I don't believe that any of their descendants suffered any lasting harm from the close relationship of our two ancestors, although some might call me a trifle eccentric, I suppose.

Ah now I know the reason for the webbed fingers and toes :D :D

And the two heads ;-)!  Webbed fingers and toes would actually be handy, as I am rubbish at swimming.  I have bent little toes, but I got those from my Mum (herself an outcross).  In the nineteenth century, I don't think marriage between cousins was that unusual in country areas.
I have mated as close as half aunt to half nephew, with pleasing results and far more even type than my bitch's first litter, which was an outcross.

Marriage between first cousins is still perfectly legal.
:)

And as you know I have done the smae in reverse half uncle to hlaf niece, and must say it wa sthe best litter I ahd bred up to that point, or arguably since, though sadly only one came into the ring,a dn that through fate returning the best bitch to me.

There's no close breeding in my family and my Auntie Vi is a scatty as they come!  EG She cycled along a towpath and as she waved to a friend, turning the handle bars into the canal!!  Thank heavens she didn't drive a car!  If I do anything daft, I always say it's not my fault, it's Auntie Vi, it's in the genes!! ;)

The reason that often children can be so unalike to each other and their parents is exactly because the parents are usually outcrosses.

Sorry just reread my last post. Obviously I meant
That's why people tend to breed their dogsclosely - to fix type, not to end up with something totally unlike the parents.
What people do is up to themselves!

Exactly, Anwen! The whole point of buying a labrador pup (for example) is that you want a dog that looks like a labrador, not a whippet or a wiemaraner.

Very true - and far more to the point!!! :)

How did I manage to spell "continually" wrong twice in the same paragraph?  Methinks I need some sleep :rolleyes: :P
Regards, Teri

Ive done an aunt to nephew mating, that litter contained my first CC winner!

Jo