I know most of you know this but Id just like to say to anyone who thinks they can make money out of breeding dont bother.
I also know most here wouldnt breed to make money but some poeple do think a KC reg dog get it mated a few times BINGO.
It doesnt work like that at all. Out of 4 matings(2 different bitches) I have had ONE success. I have lost a litter of 2 pups bot born dead by c section.
Had to very good matings with no pups coming from them. These things happen.
I didnt do it for the money, but if some are thinking think again. I havent caluated what I have lost with these 3 matings, the money doesnt bother me. Just the welfare of my dogs. 
Please dont think big money can be made. If you dont see dogs as pets then dont bother at all.

Definately agree I daren`t count costs also making sure you have right homes for pups can be really hard .Last litter I refused to give pups to 2 people.I made sure those babies got the best of homes and I am in contact with new owners.

I sort of agree.  If you breed occasionaly then yes I agree you dont make money but I believe those who breed alot (in my eyes 3-4 litters a year is alot) do make money else they wouldnt do it.  Personally I would not buy a puppy from someone who breeds alot.  

Yes very very true Liisa. I was just aiming at poeple starting out with the 1 dog. I know people with alot of dogs who get 3-4 litters a year. In all honesty they must make a good prifit. But I like you couldnt bring myself to do this.

Depends on how many dogs they keep how much they show etc.  So9em of these people regularly take a team of four or more dogs to each Championship show.  Keeping that number of dogs properly also costs a great deal.

Hi Brainless

But they are still breeding for profit arent they?   I show 2 dogs (soon to be 3) at nearly all champshows plus alot of open shows and my show fees come out fo my wages.  If I couldnt afford to show I wouldnt, I certainly would not breed to fund my show fees.

Don't agree there is no profit if they spend more on the dogs.  the average Pet6/non breeder owner would keep one or two dogs as they couldn't afford to keep more.  The puppy sales help offset keeping a line which cannot be done unless you have more dogs, unless you get rid of older dogs once they have produced the next generation.

Just to keep one single line going I will probably have 6 dogs.  This isn't with allowing to keep more than one pup from any generation.

You could say well that is the breeders choice to keep and show a lot of dogs, but without them doing this how would the breeds be kept viable?  Surely for this dedication they should be able to offset some of their extensive costs in the price of pups?

Commercially minded puppy producers keep breeding stock while it can give them a profit, maximum number of litters per animal and minimum time kept to minimise the drain on the business.

A bitch in my breed is likely to live 13 to 16 years and would normally have 2 to 4 litters in her lifetime.  My own litters have averaged at about 5 to 6 pups per litter. 

Assuming 3 litters of 6 pups would give you £9000, less rearing costs of each pup (roughtly £250 to £300) £4500/£5400, that would give a profit of £3600/£4500 over her lifetime (say 13 years) or £300 a year toward the cost of keeping the bitch.  You would pay more than half that just to insure them, where is the food and other costs.  We all know that the old dog costs the most in Veterinary attention. 

This doesn't even touch the showing costs.

Hi sharonb

yes I agree

I have bred two litters this year and still have overdraft that makes the national debt look small.  I was hoping to breed a bitch to show but unfortunately in the first litter the bitch I want to keep was a uni lateral which meant although I could show her she couldnt be bred from in the second litter although there was a bitch I would have loved to have kept I have found out I have got to have a operation and we are not sure what the out come will be so didnt think it would be fair to keep her.  By the time I have taken the amount of work I have had to put off looking after the puppies and the stress factor into consideration I think I would have been better of working in tescos for a few months.

To be honest Lisa if you think about it even people having 3 to 4 litters a year can't be making that much profit because alot of money goes into it.  You have to feed althose dogs aswell as keeping them in tip top condition for showing or you wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting anywhere.  Also the people who do show who do all the champ shows it must be costing them a fortune especially if they're entering a couple of dogs, it's also the petrol and getting to the shows in the first place and all the preparation which goes into that.  And then feeding the litter and getting them vet checked, also all the health checks before breeding and getting a stud dog.  I dont think it's a profitable hobby at all.  Unless you skip all the corners.

Warm regards susan

I am aware of how much it costs to have a litter, I currently have a week old litter from which I am keeping a bitch.  But what I am saying is if people were out of pocket after each litter (I am talking the 3-4 litters a year people) then they wouldnt breed so they must be making some money.  I pay for my 3 dogs (I show 2)from my wages that includes, vet bills, insurance, high quality food, show fees, travelling to shows and so on.  My point is that people are making money if it pays for their show fees etc etc.  Why cant they just pay for things out of their own pocket from their own hard work and not that of their bitch?  Do you see where I am coming from?  You then of course have the people who use their own stud dog to save money.  I am not saying everyone makes money but the people who do it on a regular basis obviously do.  I doubt very much I will make any money from this litter (that is not why I chose to have a litter) as my expenses todate are in excess of £1500 and the hours and hours of sleep I have missed and the pups are a week old, plus I am keeping one (my reason for having a litter in the first place).  My show fees and dog expenses will continue to come from my wages asd I doubt another litter will be planned for at leats a few years.  The way I look at it is if people cannot afford to show they shouldnt.  I know when I have been short of money I have missed a few shows I havent though "oh I know I will breed a litter to fund my show fees.  Sorry to harp on, I may not be coming across and I want to I tend to whaffle.  Sorry :-)

Many of the best breeders are on a fixed income, and others are on lwo incomes.  None of them would be able to make the contributions to the mainteneance and betterment of theri breeds if they did not at least cfover some of theri costs.

If only those bred who could afford to fund this from wages (who woudl look after the dogs and litters?) then the only ones who woudl be breeding because they maek a profit are commercial breeders.  Unfortunately because their breeding has to pay their priorities will not be the welfare of their bitchesto not be overbred) and certainly no unecesary cost would be incurred for her pleasure or benefit, and of course Rescue centres woudl be even more full of dogs, what with the ex brood bitches and the pups sold to the wrong homes because only the money is a criteria for a sale.

With the amount of puppies for sale in all breeds is it fair to bring yet more into the world? I cannot understand why in some breeds people breed so much. In FCR's for example we can have anything from 8 to 12 puppies and 10 seems to be the average. So if you are breeding for the betterment of the breed and to replace your own stock how can breeds which produce the amount of pups a flatcoat can say they are not breeding for money if they produce more than a couple of litters year?
Also it takes two dogs to create a litter, why do people keep allowing their dogs to be used at stud, I have seen in the Breed Record Supplements some stud dog owners allowing their dog to be used 5 or 6 times a quarter! This means that that stud dog could have produced 50 to 60 puppies in 3 months!!! A little more moderation and I could perhaps believe they were not doing it for the money.

In my breed club the stud dog is equally as responsible as the bitches owner for ensuring that the bitch has not been bred from too much.  One thing I will say though is that stud dogs seem to go in phases.  When we bought Tigger out her dad was used a great deal and now is only used a couple of times a year.  Last year it was another dog and this year another one.