I have a 1 year and 7 month old male chow/collie.  He is not neutred but I am getting him neutered.  He has had no formal obedience training because I was to scared to take him anywhere due to his aggression.  He barks and goes absolutly crazy when he sees any dog out side.  He has biten three different people.  Once over food, once because he was provoked, and once because the person was standing near our front door when he got loose.  He then porceeded to chase a man around a car.  He is fine once he gets to know people.  He was just recently introduced to my 9 year old cousin.  We introduced him first with a muzzel then once they were comfortable we took it off and he has been absolutly fine around her.  However, he is not always fine around people.  I want to take him to a behaviorist but it is near to impossible to find one well qualified.  My mom has threatened to put him to sleep.  She loves him as much as I do but she fears he is really going to hurt someone.  His unpredicatable behavior really scared her.  He has even turned on her once.  He is a very stubborn dog and does not like when he does not get his own way.  If anyone could offer any suggestions I would be forever greatful.

Did you have him from a baby puppy? 

How do you know his reaction to other dogs is aggression and not frustration or over excitement?

How did you coail;ise him when you first had him, with people and other dogs?

These are the sorts of questions you wi9ll need to answer in order for a behaviourist to help.

If he has pet Insurance behavioural treatment may be included and you should certainly seek a referal from your vet to a good one.

More dogs are aggresive through fear than anything else.

Neutering him of itself will not help you at all.  this wil only help if the aggresion is sexually motivated, which it doesn't sound like it is.

NILIF (nothing In Life Is Fre) approach may be helpful in manageing your dog without confrontation getting accross to him that the humans are the ones who make the rules and decide what happens.  If you type the letters into a search engine you should find some useful articles.

It basically means he has to earn all the good things in life by doing something you tell him before getting food, attention etc.  Putting you the humans in the driving seat.

I have had him since he was a puppy.  Im not 100% sure if his reaction towards dogs is aggressive or not.  I would learn more towards not because the one time he was really close to a dog was when a neighbors dog got loose and approched him and was barking at him and he sat there....as we usually have him do when he sees a dog.  Im more worried about his aggression towards people though.

There are no recognised qualifications for behaviourists at the moment.  All members of the APBC and UKRCB have to reach an approved 'standard', which is probably a good place to start.  Try asking your vet for a referral to a member of one of these organisations.  It is hard to give good advice over the 'net as without seeing the dog in action, it's hard to tell *why* he is behaving as he is.

By missing out on the early stages of training, during which time he would have been more 'open' to accepting different dogs and peoples different behaviour patterns, you have missed a golden opportunity.  It also worries me that this dog has had the opportunity to bite not one, but three people, and if you are in the UK, you really ought to be aware of the Dangerous Dogs Act under which you (or your parents) could be prosecuted for not having a dangerous dog under control.

Many dogs described as stubborn are simply confused as there is no consistency in their training or handling, especially if two people have responsibility for it - if your Mum has the most problems, it would probably help if she was in total charge of at least his feeding regime.

I will have many people disagree with my method , but if he is absolutely TOO agressive to handle.....

1. Go out and get a pronged collar ( NOT CHOKE ) and get it professionally fitted.
2. Whenever he jumps on someone give it a sturn tug and "NO!"

This may or may not fix your problem but its worth a try and will not make your dog more agressive if he knows your the pack leader. Some dogs are bred with agressive tempermant issues and require lots of time and effort on your part to tone this down
.

That is NOT the way to use a pinch collar at all

If somebody treated you in the way Mannymax has described, don't you think you'd be very wound up and frustrated with either a) the person you'd tried to get to - after all the discomfort only occurs when they are around....  or b) the person on the end of the lead doing the yanking OR BOTH!!!  A frustrated, uncomfortable dog when treated like this is very likely to get worse rather than better :(

A prong collar should never be jerked. That's a sure way to damage a dog; he'll be hurt, angry and, if aggressive, will retaliate.

Mannynmax,

Are you intentionally going out of your way to be controversial or are you really so harsh and ignorant about your dogs' basic needs and training as you come across?

Either way, please God no-one will ever come across this b/s on a search engine

Teri 

Seems like none of you have ever used a prong, MOST dogs only take 1-2 tugs for him to get the point. You do not jerk your dog 10 times in a row and i did not say this now did i?

If anyone think i mentioned that you jerk the leash with all your might then you must have no common sense, i would never treat my dogs in an abusive way. EVER.

Hi,
I am afraid a nasty Chow-Chow egh!! One man owners, you can never give
one away very low sucsess rate!! I friend breeds them has some beauty,s
Show dogs, they are in kennels though!! One male suddenly turned nasty, when she
went to feed him just flew at her and bit all her arm. For no apparent reason. It was
one of her top dogs!! After a lot of soul searching, she had to have him put to sleep.
I personally thought it might have been to inbreed. They can be very very unpredictable
once they have bitten. It's as if the challenge the pack leader, and don't back down. 
Regards
Denese

>Seems like none of you have ever used a prong, MOST dogs only take 1-2 tugs for him to get the point. You do not jerk your dog 10 times in a row and i did not say this now did i?<

That is where you are totally wrong & professionally used they are NEVER jerked at all. They are quite commonly used in Germany & are never ever jerked

mannymax Id rather not use a pronged collar.  I do know know if you are familar with chows but they are a very stubborn breed and I do not feel that this will work. 

Hi, I've just read the Suzanne Clothier book and she makes the point very strongly that aggression is usually an extreme form of communication of a dog's dissatisfaction/distress about something. *Please* take the advice above and seek a good behaviouralist.  He sounds like a basically good dog with some issues around bodyspace or anxiety and if that is the case needs someone who 'speaks his language' - and quickly before something disastrous happens.

I think the advice about the prong collar is probably sincerely meant but IMVHO only likely to make matters worse. 

Yeah , i have read chows can be very stubborn. Your dog may try to attack you while on the prong if he is REALLY agressive be careful if you try. Good Luck.

EDIT: Have you tried the citronella spray collar? It is remote and very safe. I used it once to stop my dogs from barking, it sprays a fine mist at your dogs muzzle and nose when he gets out of hand leaving an unpleasant taste.

I take it you are in the States?

Try www.apdt.com but, remember, in the States the trainers may use all sorts of different methods and some willl be well versed in modern training and how to rehabiltate problem dogs, and some will not. I'd suggest going to a class to watch before you commit yourself to that or to a one to one session. I'd also recommend looking at and maybe joining Clickersolutions (yahoo group)as there are many excellent trainers on there who are US based and who may e able to help :)

The prong suggestion will not get to the root of the problem (which may be due to fear or real aggression or even a health problem - has he been vet checked for medical problems?). A prong will suppress him possibly, but will not prevent him from biting in moments of extreme fear or agitation so I would personally never go down that route as you would be under the impression the dog was fine when in reality it was not at all.

Lindsay
x

Yes lindsay this is what i ment by using the prong , finally someone understands!. To try to supress the problem when it gets out of hand.

Some dogs will take this correction immiedetly though , and it MAY or may not prevent the problem completely if you have a very agressively stubborn dog.

But using it the way you suggested will not work & if you have used it in this manner then you have not used it correctly

They way you use it can cause injury & will cause pain which is not what dog training is about

Edited to add

Have you cured your puppy by using this method ??????????? If so you have done it in less had a week from having first posted on here

>finally someone understands!. To try to supress the problem when it gets out of hand.

No, no no! That's not what Lindsay's saying! You shouldn't merely suppress a problem; all that does is mask it. The problem is still there, and can re-emerge at any time. In this case the dog would become a time-bomb. :( The aim is to cure the problem. Yes, it takes longer and involves more effort, but is ultimately far more successful.

Manny, this is the part of Lindsay's post you need to pay heed to:

>I would personally never go down that route as you would be under the impression the dog was fine when in reality it was not at all.

>No, no no! That's not what Lindsay's saying! You shouldn't merely suppress a problem; all that does is mask it. The problem is still there, and can re-emerge at any time. In this case the dog would become a time-bomb.  The aim is to cure the problem. Yes, it takes longer and involves more effort, but is ultimately far more successful.

Completely agree.  Not only will masking the problem leave it liable to re-emerge at any time but also another more undesirable behaviour can emerge instead of/ or as well as.  Prime factor root cause/s must be dealt with for a long term cure.

Krytia2000, I would strongly recommend that you take your dog to a good qualified behaviourist.   Aggression can be multifarious with many triggers.  Impossible to advise over the internet and without observation. 

PS, a prong collar is not the answer, far from it. :rolleyes:

But if you supress the problem will it not get worse when you dont use this coller?

Lindsay will be horrified if she sees what you've taken from her post :(

Teri and Jeangenie are correct, I am afraid Mannymax. I don't agree with suppressing a dog with a prong collar or anything else, because in the end you get a dog you can't trust because you don't know what it is really feeling and how it may react. It may ultimately create a far more dangerous dog.

Lindsay
x

>To try to supress the problem when it gets out of hand.<

All you are likely to suppress by meeting aggression with aggression are the warning signs with the obvious fall out that you have a dog that will attack without warning which is far more dangerous.

Aggression cannot be advised upon without meeting the dog and seeing his reactions in various situations.

MoonMaiden , nice attempts to flame me but no cigar sorry.

What you are bringing up is a WHOLE different issue then agression. The type of agression that she mentions is a very serious matter and can lead to something fatal if it is not fixed immiedetly.

I have been dealing with training collars all my life, i defiently know how to use them so do not ever question me on the issue.

I don't want to have another person in needs thread closed so please stop bringing up things that are off topic and try helping the one in need (krytia). If you want to be rude to me then do it in private message, thank you.

Krytia has replied on my idea,  it will probably not work with her stubborn dog and i respect this response.

EDIT: To everyone else whos trying to get me to leave this forums because my suggestions are "abusive and cruel" then do it in private message because again , i don't want to get someones thread closed i am just offering MY help whether they want it or not.

>I have been dealing with training collars all my life, i defiently know how to use them so do not ever question me on the issue.

The advice you give on the use of these collars in wrong, plain and simple. If you've been doing this all your life, you've been misusing the equipment all your life too.

>i am just offering MY help whether they want it or not.

Do you not find it remotely strange that all your 'advice' can so easily be shown to be basically wrong? To let it pass without offering a more acceptable solution would be doing the OP a great disservice.

Mannynmax,

>To everyone else whos trying to get me to leave this forums because my suggestions are "abusive and cruel" then do it in private message because again , i don't want to get someones thread closed i am just offering MY help whether they want it or not.

No-one is trying to get you to leave the Forum   Your "methods" whereby "the end justifies the means" are completely at odds with what the mainstream on this Forum would ever condone.  If you post this off the wall advice on a public basis then it should be addressed in public - not pm.  Anyone using the search facility on 'net could easily come up with your various posts and think them an ideal way to proceed while the general concensus of opinion is not in favour of your methods.

A sure fire way to have a thread locked is to continue to post in the manner that you have been.

Teri 

The manner i have been posting in has not been innappropriate , you and Jean need to stop following me around and trying to tell everyone i am wrong and that i am such a bad person that starve and beat my dogs.

There are more than 1 way to teach/correct a dog and you guys must be so arrogant that all you can see are your ideas or "Go to a behaviour specialist!" I guess everyone asks questions just to be told the same thing over and over, right?

My appologies for not adding that a prong collar should be used with professional's help only, this is the only thing i will be "wronged" for.

Flaming-No just odd that you are offering behavioural advice by using a collar that is really only for experienced professional  use yet you cannot solve your own baby puppies problem

Well it is odd to me, I don't seen  anyone else who has years of experience asking for help with a fairly simple problem with a puppy that most experienced trainers/dog owners can solve with some motivational training

/I have been dealing with training collars all my life, i defiently know how to use them so do not ever question me on the issue<

If this is true you will know jerking using a pinch collr is a big nono amougst professional trainers(just checked with my SV trainer friend in Germany)

If anyone picks up on your advice & does as you suggest they could & probably will end up with more problems caused that solved or surpressed

Of course maiden , i am a guru and i can solve and problem brought to my direction. Duh!

Dogs are just apart of my life and have always been , i have others things to worry about in life as well so sorry if you proposed me as the greatest dog expert around.

>so sorry if you proposed me as the greatest dog expert around.

Apology unnecessary! :D

> sorry if you proposed me as the greatest dog expert around<

In your dreams

>so sorry if you proposed me as the greatest dog expert around

Nah! :P :D

ps. Your own pup wouldn't be dragging you to the nearest out door water source would it?   Just a thought ..........

>ps. Your own pup wouldn't be dragging you to the nearest out door water source would it?   Just a thought ..........

Nope , problem has already been solved. Good day to you.

Although he loves drinking from his giant bucket, i hope he wont drown.

>Although he loves drinking from his giant bucket, i hope he wont drown.

So do we! The biggest buckets we have over here are 2-gallon ones. You must have tremendous biceps to carry a 50-gallon bucket! After all, if you're using US measurements, it only weighs 400lb ... ;)

I think i was actually being sarcastic about the bucket , its a water dispenser jug with the top cut off. big enough and there's 2.

I'm sorry I cannot offer any advice other than  what has been given but I may be able to give you some hope.

As some people have already mentioned, Chows have a reputation for being stubborn, nasty dogs and seem to be inferring that you may not be able to change his behaviour because of one of your dogs parents being a Chow. Well, i have an 18 month old Chow X Lab and he is a wonderful dog. I rehomed him from a family who could not cope with him and had banished him to the back yard. He was six months old, boisterous, untrained and unsocialised. Maybe not the best choice of dog for a novice but I was determined that I could give him  better life. It's been a long road...a year of tearing my hair out and feeling like for every one step forward we've taken two back. Yes, he is stubborn but he is intelligent. He learns commands quickly but chooses to only obey them when he feels like it. However, there is not a nasty bone in his body. I took him to training classes to aid socialisation as much as for the obedience aspect. He has just graduated to the next stage which is way, way longer than most dogs take to get there but its a result and I am so proud of him for it. He's never going to win prizes for obedience but he's getting there (recall is as dodgy as hell, though). And far from being nasty, he is a joy to live with. He is wary of strangers (which I believe is a Chow trait) but is great with children. He only trusts a chosen few people and appears aloof to others but I couldn't care less about that. If you could see him as he is right now, sleeping on the sofa next to our Newfie pup (and snoring like a bull!!), you would not believe that he is potentially a 'nasty' dog who should not be rehomed (as someone above suggested).

Good luck with your boy. I hope you can find a behaviourist that will work with you and that, in time, you can enjoy life with him.

All the best.

*Edited to say...I managed to achieve this with patiece, reward-based training and perserverance. No prong/spray collars or any other equipment required...*

Sorry but as yet we do not even know if the dog is showing aggression, frustraion or excitement when it ses other dogs.

Surely id you know all about the correct use of coallars you would not be having problems with your pup pulling when out.

Your pup it would seem is showing some of the same symptoms as the posters dog, being overwhelmed or over stimulated whe3n out.

As it is a rescue dog and been kenneled for an unknown lenght of time it may well have learnt to suimply go OTT in it's frustraion with no one showing it more appropriate way to behave.

It is very easy to misinterpret a dogs actions as aggression.

How many people t6hink their pup is turning or is visiopus because it mouths???

Brainless , she stated that the dog barks and goes crazy when it sees other dogs. It had also bitten 3 people , is that not enough to tell you that the dog is not just mouthing but is AGRESSIVE?!

Surely you are joking , you aren't even involved in the arguement at hand so buzz off and stick to the topic. My issue is my issue , if you have something to say about it then post in My topic.

You must be BRAINLESS if you cannot tell the difference between pure agression and mouthing/teething. Why would it be mouthing/teething if its already got its adult set of teeth , THINK!

Sorry if you think i am being agressive towards you, you engaged it.

>she stated that the dog barks and goes crazy when it sees other dogs.

Very common in under-socialised, over-excited dogs.

>It had also bitten 3 people , is that not enough to tell you that the dog is not just mouthing but is AGRESSIVE?!

Not without knowing the circumstances.
:)

Another thing , thyroid issues can cause agression as well.

I ahve a bitch that mouthed plentuy at 9 months old when I had her back.  she had never learnt that this was not the way to interact and play withhumans.  If you notice this is exactly how dogs play with each other, nothing to do with agression or teething!!!!

What she did have was good bite inhibition thank God and mouthed playfully and without the pressure she could have exerted :D

Once she had been trained and taught what enough meant she has been as good as gold, but will ahppily rough house if invited but will stop as soon as told.

As I said many people will call mouthing biting, and a frustrated dog may nip without it being a result of agression, and bull breeds play very hard also.

If the dog is part Pitbull and Part chow it would have inflicted very nasty wounds by now if it truly wanted to bite.

It's chow/collie not chow/pitbull.

If your dog was mouthing at 9 months then you didn't do much corrective training while he was a puppy right? Actually, he may have just been testing you to see if you are still alpha, which is a common phase in most dogs

I had my bitch back at 9 months because her owners had not taken her to training and had not realised how soon she would be full size and beyond their limited skills.  They ahd not appreciated just what a commitment training wise a puppy would be not realising that it would take concerted effort in the first year at least.

I see.

She also didn't know that she should not bay and pull towards other dogs and not take out her frustraion on the person trying to stop ehr doing as she pleased.  This is a bold and clever breed and she had never ahd any limits set. 

The OP's dog is a pup of a similar age a teenager juvenile delinquent, not inherently bad, jsut doesn't know any better and may well have been handled roughly therby resorting to biting in what it perceives as self defense.

As I understand it is USA rescues will nto rehome dogs who ahve bitten because of being sued.  the reason a qualifed behaviourist is being advocated is so that they can assess what is actually happening and why the dog is reacting as it does.  Mn6y rescues have such people as consultants and the OP may well be able to get help from the resue organisation?

Its not pit...its chow/collie...thanks manny didnt read down that far.

Thanks everyone for your input.  I know without a doubt that my dog is aggressive.  I have hope that I can over time retrain him.  I did socialize him.  He has been around people, many different people since he was a puppy.  He even went to pet stores and was fine with other dogs.  I was able to stop his agression towards our pet birds.  So i hope I can over time solve the other problems.  I am deffintly taking him to a behaviorist.  The vet recommended one.  Really expensive but once i look in on one of her sessions I am 100% willing to pay the price if I like her techniques.  Im geting him fixed first though.  I called someone saturday to make an appointment.  On a positive note.  My Aunt came to visit with her son and my other cousin.  I introduced him first with the muzzel then took it off.  He has been absolutly fine with them.  Its just really when he is outside that I worry about and not when he is on a leash but if he ever gets off the leash.

My dog was not a rescue dog.