I have just read another article in the Times about the growing trend of dog theft. I am now concerned as to the safety of my own dog (particularly as the area in which I live was named as one of the areas in which such attacks are growing) and as a novice dog owners (to be, in three weeks) I want someone to clarify what security/safety measures I can take to help keep my dog safe.

I have an identity disc with my home phone number on it. I also have a barrel with both mine and my partner's name, our home address and both ur mobile phone numbers. I am also going to get her microchipped. What other options are available? I know tattooing is an option, and I would like people to post information on how I go about getting my dog tattooed, and who with etc. but also what is the deal with a DNA profile? I know that there has been mention on here of kits available, and I would be interested in learning how this works and through what organisation it is available.

In addition are there any other safety tips I can take onboard? I am now concerned about walking my dog alone (once she is old enough to go on walks) as I think I would appear an easy arget to theives (I am only 5 foot and female), so perhaps I should only walk her with my partner and in busy areas?

I am probably coming acorss as a totally paranoid, but i want to do everything I can to ensure she remains safe.

http://www.dog-register.co.uk/

Well all I can say is that no one has tried to nick any of my dogs in the 15 years I have had them in the UK.

If your dog is always under complete control and never left unsupervised ie outside a shop etc you should really have nothing to worry about apart from the very rare nutter with a weapon etc.

I think the fear of theft really outweighs the risk itself.

Missing Pets Bureau DNA

or you can go via the KC site

I think you are absolutely right, it is the fear of theft. What scares me is the lengths of brutality these kind of theives seem willing to go to, not only in how they take the dogs, but in how they keep and treat them while holding them for a ransome/using them to fight/breed etc.. I think the media are making people concerned and very worried, but in a way, rightly so, as it is something that needs to be brought to attention, and particularly the issue of the law which does not class dog theft in the same way as theft of goods etc. The Times article mentioned that dog groups are going to lobby the government to get this loop hol ein the law tightened so that the people who steal dogs can be brought to justice and face punishment.

Thak you so much for those links. I will check them out.

Hi tohme,

I think it depends on the breed!
I bet the postman wont nick the Akita!!!!

Regards
Denese

This is a very interesting topic as I was reading the other day about a Dalmation who was microchipped and then lost, but the microchip company is now quoting the Data Protection Act for their reason in NOT disclosing to the poor Dalmation's owner as to the wherabouts of the dog even though they (the company) know where this dog is!

I am now concerned about the policy of the manufacturer of my dog's microchip!!

Hi Gillie,

W-O-W that doesn't sound good!!! I thought that was the reason you had them mic. chipped.
If this happends, the only thing left is tattooing. But!! they might use the same excuss.
In white dogs though, you could see the tattoo in the ear. Not a good thing.
I wonder what the kennel club makes of this!!!!
Regards
Denese

i am going to write to Mack's microchip company and ask them what their position is about this as I entirely agree, it is very worrying indeed!

It does help to keep your dogs as safe as possible. But there are many cases when homes or well secured kennels have been broken into to steel dogs. Or they have been taken from owners while out walking. Even heared of a case recently when a 14 year old lad was held at knifepoint for his SBT.
Seems the most likely breed to get stolen is the SBT followed by the JRT.
When I go out with my dogs now I take a bag of broken bricks. Noone will take my dogs without a fight.

It was discussed some while ago in a dog magazine on how the micro-ship companies weren't obliged to tell you were the dog was if someone else had it as their own. (Can't remember the exact details it was along the lines of legal ownership).

Where i am now the council have a system where you register your dog for i think £2.50 and you are given a tag with a number on, if your dog gets lost they check their own database and voila! As you are paying for the tag i guess its pretty self sufficent.
Of course like me if your dog doesn't wear a collar around the home you have that added problem which is why i'm going to have both mine tattoed.

Why would the tattoo be a problem in awhite eared dog, it is on the inside of the ear.

Hi,
They don't seem to have tattoo's on Sams it seem to be looked down on.
More mirco. chips and dna. They say it is seen. I do not know if it would make a diffrence in the ring?
In my Grandparents day and parents they would be shocked at all the method's, but dog
theft wasn't a problem then. I went for mico. chips.
Regards
Denese 

I saw on in a local paper that a rottie that was micro chipped the theives cut it out with a potatoe peeler couldnt beleive it things people will do thats why i am registered with mpb as they have my dogs dna and the tag has none of my details on it so they contact me if my dog ever dissapeared and if whoever had her denied it i could prove it in a court of law by the dna sample they have on record

Also dogs have had ears cut off ect too disgusting isnt it but these are all things that are in the news today these people should be hung dry a friend of mine recued a dog not long ago who had had its ear cut off because it was tatood so that no-one could prove it was their dog sad :(

Trackie

Can we please get this clear once & for all. There have been NO dogs tattooed through the NDTR that have been stolen that have had their ears cut off. The ONLY dogs that have been mutilated have are NRGC  greyhounds dumped by their owners not thieves

I for one am getting really cheesed off by posters on this board & others posting these false "stories"

I will quote you a TRUE story Some pedigree GSD puppies were stolen from a top kennels these puppies were tattooed & were returned within hours unharmed & with their ears intact the tattooes had made them too hot to be handled & sold on, the story was on the front page of all the dog papers

Edited to add if your friend has rescued a dog with it's ear cut off how do they know it was tattooed & which ear was it & what breed ???????? Lottie the Rottie had her ears cut off but was NOT tattooed cutting ears off is done a lot in the dog fighting world & has nothing to do with tattooes

i am not saying that i am putting a TRUE point across that dogs have had their ears cut off for this reason whether you believe it or not is up to you but i have seen it first hand as my freind recues these type of dogs that have been mistreated and i can guarantee you its not just retired greyhounds i wasnt stating that it was NTDR dogs in particular just in general

As for knowing about the tattoing on the dogs ear when the rspca were called to collect the dog his ears were found in the same house as the dog along with a micro chip from another dog believe it or not some people need hanging and believe it or not some of these people still get to own a dog :(

Soory Moonmaiden do you read every newspaper in every county then? think not how  come you seem to know everything :( you dont im afraid im not talking about doggy news im talking headlines in a normal paper theives will do anything possible if they really want the dog they have taken al
though i have to say there is no way out if they are dna tested and its all on record

Edited to add if your friend has rescued a dog with it's ear cut off how do they know it was tattooed & which ear was it & what breed ???????? Lottie the Rottie had her ears cut off but was NOT tattooed cutting ears off is done a lot in the dog fighting world & has nothing to do with tattooes 

Firstly you said greyhounds then you add gsd puppies were stolen from a kennel there you go it does happen

>Firstly you said greyhounds then you add gsd puppies were stolen from a kennel there you go it does happen 

Nobody's denying dogs are stolen, trackie! The point MM was making was that the tattoos ensured the gsd pups were recovered - unharmed! - because they were so easily identifiable. Not that they had their ears cut off!

It's well recorded that many ex-racing greyhounds are inhumanely killed and their bodies dumped, with the ears cut off to remove the identifying evidence. Appallingly, some aren't properly killed and survive. They don't have their ears cut off to be sold on.
 

I've also read that if a stolen dog is taken to the vet by the thieves or the people who've bought it from them, and a scan shows a microchip with a different name and address to the people presenting the dog, the vet isn't allowed by law (Data Protection again) to alert the authorities. :( If the people admit the dog isn't theirs, then he can, but if they insist the dog is theirs then he can't.

That was similar to what i read jeangenie except even if the vet knew it wasn;t their dog and they told them it wasn;t their dog they would only be able to politely ask the 'new owners' to notify the 'old owners' it was not their place to do otherwise.

Here you go i found this, the 'duty' to the vet seems a little vague tho what if the vet won't breach client confidentiality?

Ownership Dispute
An ownership dispute may arise, where a client presents an animal with a microchip registered in another person's name. With their consent, both parties to the dispute can be put in touch with each other.

If a client declines to consent to the release of his or her name and contact details and details of the animal and microchip, a veterinary surgeon should breach client confidentiality to pass the necessary information to the PetLog Reunification Service. [If the registered owner declines to consent to the release of his or her name and contact details these should be known to the Pet log Reunification Service.]

PetLog Reunification Service will then seek to reunite the animal with the registered owner or update the relevant database. The Petlog Reunification Service provides a standard tonn for veterinary surgeons to provide infonnation to the service.

The Petlog Reunification Service indicates: 'In the unlikely event that the Carer [client} is not willing for their details to be released or refuses to agree to return the animal they will be infonned that the Registered Owner will be advised to seek legal advice. On instruction from a Solicitor or the Police PetLog can release details.' "

Source: 'Guide to Professional Conduct', RCVS

On the other hand if the dog is tattooed then under the law that applies to marked property the dog has to be returned to the registered owner Just like a car etc

The part that refers is that the owner is traceable ie the tattoo can be read without a scanner & the NDTR contacted

Not wanting to split hairs here  but I think it is an important one the law does NOT see the registered own as a guarantee of the legal ownership , it clearly says on car registration papers somewhere  that being the registered keeping doesn't guarantee legal ownership .It has been on the documents for years.

Proof of ownership is receipt/evidence of purchase UNLESS the item was a stolen item from the " real bonifide owner"  the seller didn't have the " real ownership" to sell it on again.

my error like a TV set then However when my friends car was stolen the police did contact her as the keeper & did return the car to her, however when her cycle that was chipped was stolen they didn't have to return it as she was not traceable as the owner as they did not scan it & after 28 days it became the "finders"property(the finder was in fact  the thief !)

HI Moonmaiden, :-)

> when my friends car was stolen the police did contact her as the keeper & did return the car to her, <

That would be the normal process as generally the registered keeper is the owner so unless the police had any doubt their normal proccess would be to return it the the keeper presuming they were the owner. If there was the slightest doubt they wouldn't.

> however when her cycle that was chipped was stolen they didn't have to return it as she was not traceable as the owner as they did not scan it & after 28 days it became the "finders"property(the finder was in fact  the thief !) <

This is where lost property or what is seen as lost property becomes difficult.  What you have missed out is the information in how the police got the bike or knew about that bike and that is the VITAL piece in how the outcome is resolved.  If the bike was a suspected stolen item then the 28 day  guideline would 100% not apply,  if however  it was looked at as lost property because of how it came into the police hands or attention then it is very likely it would because the police would have no reason to question the finder.

The legal system is not just cut and dry. I do often try not to comment because if the explaination is not 100% clear people then interpretate it a totally different way altogether :-)  Each case has to be looked at FULLY to find it's own merit.

BFN Pam :-)

PS Hope you didn't think I was nit picking. I saw a couple posts on here last night talking about something in realation to the law and they were all very much incorrect.  I do hope people don't take everything they read at times as 100% accurate and go charging off into something ;-)

She reported the cycle(valued at around £5,000)stolen(which it was)however the "finder" reported that they had found a cycle & the police didn't have a scanner so as the cycle had been resprayed by the "finder"before being handed in it didn't fit the colour of the stolen cycle & after 28 days the cycle was handed over to the "finder"had they bothered to scan it she might have got the cycle back(the police's words). She even warned the police that the cycle would be resprayed & who she suspected of taking it to no avail sadly

My friend had to wait 6 months before her new cycle was ready & missed out on the Olympics trials because of it. She now sees the thief riding her cycle in triathlons which is very galling to her

If it were me I would probably have raised a civil action against the person, she would have got herbike back that way or the value of it ;-) cival is only the balance of probability 51% ;-)
#
Shame though and hope it is not a regular thing.

Duplicate.

Any authority that has a genuine reason for needing personal information can be given it legally as long as it is given with care and seen as necessary. They pet log company may not wish to give out the personal details  but they would however be oblidged to contact the registered owner and advice of the situation.

Gillie it has alway been the case that a finder/scanner can contact the pet log and ask that the contact the registered owner.

It makes perfect sense.

What if someone stole the dog, got the owners details then sent demands. Another way to think about it.

Rules are generally there to protect the innocent.

Can the police intervene if the dog is chipped, reported missing/stolen and in the case of the dalmation found? Also does tatooing hurt them? My boy has big long ears and i worry about causing him any pain.

Tattooing is not pain free but done so quickly even the most wimpish of dogs(like adult male GSDs ;) )have no problems, I have seen some dogs not react at all. 

I have heard dogs being microchipped that have screamed the vets down(one was yesterday)but this dog also screamed when it was jabbed as well.

The length of the ear has no bearing on being tattooed as the tattoo is done low down in the ear if you look on the NDTR site you will see examples

Been reading this thread with interest and also a little concern,just rang petlog to see where they stand,spoke to very nice girl,who assured me if Joe Bloggs,went into vets with your dog and said dog had been sold to them etc., the vet would automatically check for microchip,and then if that person had given other details to yours the vet would refuse to hand the dog back over,until petlog had checked it out with you (vet would automatically ring the microchip company),sometimes people hand dogs over or sell them on and dont inform the company so they would then contact you to clear this up,occassionally you can get a practice that isnt all that good at doing what they should do,but majority of them do,also you must firstly ring the company your pet is registered with to report it missing,as she said some people are so distraught they ring everyone else and forget to ring them.Just upgraded my cover for £15.00 i can have second carer, if she is anywhere in the country and we lose her they will alert the necessary people in that area,you can create lost posters on the internet and no charge to change details if you move usually a charge of £5.00 apparently they make a £1.00 out of the money the vets charge thats why they charge for changes unless you pay the one off £15.00 which covers you for pets life.Also if you boarded your dog with kennell or family and went away you can put them on the details and if anything happens they have the details and area of where dog went missing and can keep in contact with them.Sorry for such long post but i must say i feel a lot happier now and have no worries if Zanta went missing,and of course my first call would be to Petlog if i lost her.  HTH

I am afraid whatever the girl said, is not what is done in practice.

Vets have no power to retain an animal on this or any other concern.

There are plenty of well documented cases where the original owner has been contacted by the microchip firm and the subsequent owners have kept the animals and/or it has gone to court, sometimes taking months or even over a year to get there.

Tattoos and microchips are no guarantee that your dog will be returned EXCEPT if it is discovered by those who WISH to return it.

Well i just hope none of us are put in that position where we might have to find that out,but all you can do is ring and enquire about their policies and how they deal with it,its like anything in life ie:car insurance etc we may never get the outcome we expect i worked in it long enough to know,and sometimes we just never read the small print,i still feel happier than i did and shant worry too much over how it would work out if i ever needed it,would have to cross that bridge if i came to it,i thinkyou said in 15 yrs no-one has ever tried to steal your dogs and you have i assume never lost one and i think thats how we should be thinking on the positive not the negative its like everything in life if we woried about all the bad things that get reported we would never go anywhere or do anything there is not much news on all the good things that happen in life is there,doesnt sell papers i suppose.

Tohme seems to a degree you are right,just contacted my vet to see what they would do,obviously if someone brought a dog in and said they hadnt been registerd before,they obvioulsy wouldnt scan it,fair enough,if i informed my vet my dog had gone missing they would put it in their lost and found book and if a dog came in very similar to yours they would scan,ring petlog with the id no: giving them owner details and phone nos they would then ring you,and ,they would hold onto the dog until you could go along an confirm dog was yours they have done this before,under suspicious circumstances.Seems you have to be responsible for informing vets yourself and i would be inclined to inform all vets that were local with photos aswell and hope that they would do the same as my vet would do. A pretty grey area i think i know now if this happens to me i will not only inform petlog but as mentioned all vets within a certain radius but how far do you go its all a gamble in the end.My vet says they do and would retain the animal until cleared up with person registered as owner.  

Moonmaiden at what age do breeders tattoo their litters - how many weeks should I say?

Generally about 6 or 7 weeks.

Thanks Jean.

They can be done as puppies as a litter between 6 & 9 weeks of age

Stann I doubt if he has longer ears than a Weimaraner, and mine did not flinch! ;)

As Moonmaiden says, the tattoo is done so far down as near as possible to the ear canal itself that cutting off the ear is really not an issue.  It takes seconds.

he has lovely beagle ears, and to be honest i think i am more of a wimp than him!

Beagles in hunt packs are regularly tattooed