What colours can i breed together to get propper desirable pedegree dogs. Can i bred my black and tan and tri colour? i have just bred my ruby and black and tan and that was ok

groan :rolleyes: - hope this is a WUM folks

Yvonne

'black and tan to tri could result in heavily marked tri's or mismarked black and tans .........if either has a ruby parent you could get mismarked ruby as well ...........

You need to know the colours behind your dogs in their breeding before embarking in mixing the colours

Hi buy the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel The World of Dogs by Margaret Workman it tells you which colour goes with which and what colours you can get.

thats the one mini .......i had temp memory loss of which book its in ..although I still find it confusing..LOL

So can i breed my Tricolour and Ruby or my Tricolour and Blenheim

Have they all passed the important tests to eliminate hereditary conditions, and the pedigrees are a suitable match (not too close, not to distant)?

Colour is a very small part of producing quality puppies.  You haven't mentioned each dog's virtues and faults or what you are trying to achieve by out crossing or line breeding to a dog in their pedigrees, or the results of their health tests?  Without this information nobody can even begin to advise you whether it would be a good idea to mate these dogs together.
If you are thinking of mating dogs without this knowledge, then no, you shouldn't be doing it.

& have they ALL been MRI'd screened clear of Syringohydromyelia ?as well as all the other health tests & of course they will be over 2 1/2 years old

Haven't you bothered to read what people have written ?

I hope that you're right Trevor??!! ;)

i dont want to sell them i want to keep them but can i breed those colurs all have been checked

You have had them all MRI scanned clear of SHM ? You are the first person in the UK to have a stud dog clinically free of SHM & to have all the oedigrees matching well is very unusual too Who did your MRI scans ? & have you submitted blood samples to Clare for the DNA research as she will be very interested in three SHM clinically clear Cavaliers You need to advise the Cavalier club of your SHM clear dogs as well

Can you PM me with the details of the date of the MRI scans & the hip scored, pedigrees etc etc as I know someone looking for an SHM clear dog to use at stud

You are so very lucky to have heart & eye(tested by a BVA panelist of course & not your GP vet)clear dogs & had them hip scored under the breed average as well as being SHM clear

I think we are all looking for a SHM clear scanned stud dog..................

You may well have found one Inca..... nicke261192's dogs have all been checked.:)
These things crop up when you least expect them!

Nicke261192...please please contact me i will travel to where ever you are you use your MRI scanned clear dog :)

You've mated one bitch and you're going to mate another and keep all the pups???????  Surely not.
If you do so without knowing all the health history of the ancestors, then you'd better insure every one of them or you could be in for some enormous Vet's bills. :(

What a horrible high and mighty attitude you lot have !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Firstly you say both dog and bitch must have been MRI scanned and then you say you are all looking for a stud dog who has been MRI scanned clear, so obviously there are very few cavalier breeders around who bother, which is most odd, seeing that it is so important !!!!!!!!!!
I have an appt with my vet next week, to discuss where I can get my bitch MRI scanned as I know there are only a handful of places in the UK that can do it. She is of course heart and eye tested clear as are her parents and grandparents. I am awaiting her hip score results. I will also have my litter eye tested at 6 weeks as well as a general vet check.
I think the attitude of some people on here is downright rude, you just ASSUME people don't do the health checks !
Funnily enough, the show world can be the worst for not heart testing their cavaliers ... well, when you have a cavalier doing well in the ring, some of them don't want to risk a problem showing up and spoiling everything. Pure Craziness of course, because as we all know, dog showing came about as a way of finding the most suitable breeding stock. For some exhibitors, having the correct markings, gait, tail carriage etc. is more important than if the dog is going to develope MVD at a young age ! This was told to me by a very well respected breeder/exhibitor of cavaliers I might add.

Well doen Zoe.  It is sad that in some breeds the majority of peopele do not carry out the required health tests, and it isn't only the pet breeder or puppy farmer either.

Thankfully in my breed all club members hip score and eye test breeding stock, and many exhibitors and pet owners have their non breeding dogs doen too.

About 23 are hip scored each year (and more eye tested), and this compares well with the annual registrations of puppies which are around 120.

My friend has dobermans and a woefully small proportion of even the breeding stock appear to be tested.

This does not of course mean that people should not be encouraged to do so or critiscised if they do not., whoever they are, and the releavant bred clubs shoudl take a stronger line about it with their members.  Else how is a potential puppy buyer supposed to tell the difference between a responsible breeder and a puppy producer???

I don't understand how anyone can breed dogs without doing the health checks relevant to their breed, well I suppose I do, it is because they do not care about their breed, only about selling puppies and in some cases, and most ironically, about doing well in the ring.
For me, if my goal wasn't to breed dogs that adhered to the breed standard AND were healthy, untroubled by hereditary health problems, then I would not be breeding. Obviously ensuring that you only breed from healthy, tested, stock does not sadly guarantee that all dogs will be free of hereditary disease, but at least those breeders that do, know in their hearts they are doing their very best for the breed they love.

>I don't understand how anyone can breed dogs without doing the health checks relevant to their breed,

A huge number have done so little research into their supposedly beloved breed that they're completely unaware that the diseases even exist, let alone can be tested for. :(

>but at least those breeders that do, know in their hearts they are doing their very best for the breed they love.

Which is exactly why we always advise people on the importance of the tests and encourage them to have them done. I don't really think that's a particularly 'high and mighty attitude', as you put it - I would consider it responsible and helpful.

>Which is exactly why we always advise people on the importance of the tests and encourage them to have them >done. I don't really think that's a particularly 'high and mighty attitude', as you put it - I would consider it >responsible and helpful.

I also believe that if you point out all the costs, all the work involved, all the bad points, the risks etc, then chances are that those that are unsuitable for breeding will realise it's not for them. Those that are willing to do it all the right way are usually those not put off easily! In fact, this goes for a lot of subjects.  I breed pedigree cats as well and get a LOT of enquiries for kittens, roughly one or two a DAY.  I always do my best to initially point out all the NEGATIVE points about my breeds- such as the amount of grooming involved, the fact that they may have to wait for 6 months or more for a kitten from me, and I find the right prospective owners are usually not put off, the wrong ones that haven't thought through it all simply never get back in touch. :)

Marianne

there are many cavalier owners who do bother.....finding the right dog is altogether differnt YES i would travel for a dog with the right pedigree health wise and a MRI clear would be a great plus.............not quite sure what the issue is here ?

Of course people need to be aware of the importance of carrying out ALL the relative health checks for their breed if they wish to have a litter, clearly that is not the point I was making. It is just so very often people come on here and ask a question and immediately they are set upon by people who assume they do not have any knowledge of the health checks required for their breed. It is possible, that this person considers the health of their breed to be the most important thing and therefore may have less knowledge about colour genetics ... for them that could and should be of secondary importance.
All I am saying is that there is a way of saying things, and the messages left for this person, were in my opinion rather arrogant and sarcastic.

It is possible, that this person considers the health of their breed to be the most important thing and therefore may have less knowledge about colour genetics ... for them that could and should be of secondary importance.

Zoes Mum, without making any reference to this OP, if this is the case then the OP usually words the question in exactly that way.  After a while (or a few years) or reading the posts on this board, then you can generally, of course not always, perceive the level of knowledge by the way that the question is worded, especially if the intention is to mate their own dog to their own bitch.  Certainly there are now more health problems in Cavaliers than when I owned and showed my Weaverley Cavalier some 20 years ago.  It would therefore seem responsible to encourage anyone who plans to produce Cavalier pups to carry out every health test possible and avoid a further decline in their progress.  I certainly wouldn't be party to encourage any other sort of breeding! :(

again, I will state what I have already stated, that of course I agree with encouraging EVERYONE who breeds to carry out ALL relevant health checks, it is just the way some people on here go about it .... innocent until proven guiltly and all that .....
there could have been a far more polite way to ask this person about health checks and it could well have had a more favourable impact.

Then feel free Zoes Mum to reply in the way to posters that you feel most appropriate instead of criticising other posters' style.  Hopefully your style will have the impact that you desire?  I wait with interest to see how you broach the subject of health testing, or will you just be helpful and encouraging breeding without risking upsetting the OP?  Some of us are not prepared to help people produce puppies but are more than willing to help those who wish to learn the to breed to maintain/improve the breed standard.
This in a public forum and an Information Exchange and so many styles and attitudes will be found here.  Some will please you and some will not, just as in all walks of life. ;)

No need to take the hump Val. I actually own a website  and it has its own forum, so I have heaps of experience of posting on one thanks. Manners cost nothing and as I said, people should not jump to the conclusion that others have not carried out health checks ..... some people are a little too cynical on this forum. You would have hard job trying to find a breeder who is more keen on carrying out  breed related health checks than I by the way. But it doesn't make me feel like going on the attack everytime someone posts. Of course, if someone were to post that they felt they had no need to carry out health checks or that they had produced a litter of pups and then admitted they did not know the breed had any health problems ... hmm well then you may see a different side to me LOL.

>some people are a little too cynical on this forum.

Only the ones who, over time, have learned to read between the lines! ;) Besides, asking questions isn't 'going on the attack'!

Goodness me, takes more than that for me to take the hump Zoes Mum!! :)  You really don't know us very well having only joined a week ago.

people should not jump to the conclusion
But why do you think that the rest of the world should do things your way??  Have I missed something?  I accept that we are all different and don't expect everyone to do things the same way as me, but I will not assist irresponsible puppy producing.

I think we are just going round in circles , I am not going to repeatedly defend myself ... there is no point, I think I have made myself quite clear, like yourself, so perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

Nobody is attacking you Zoes Mum so there is no need to defend yourself.  You were the one who criticised other posters.  And by the way personal attacks are against the TOS on this board.

My criticism of certain posts was in my opinion, perfectly justifiable, otherwise I wouldn't have posted anything !! People should not be rude to others on a public forum WITHOUT good reason. I felt that some of the cynical remarks made to this other person were uncalled for .... for reasons I have already given and I do not wish to repeat myself cos it makes for very boring reading indeed. Now perhaps Val, we can allow this thread to go back on topic, instead of you and I discussing our posting style LOL ?!

Perhaps you would like to post your forum addy on your profile, then we can all learn how it should be done?
Or maybe we should all stick to where we are most comfortable.:)

I have been reading these forums for a couple of years now and have always resisted the urge to post, largely due to the rudeness of people like Val. Actually no, I will not disclose my forum addy, thanks, why would I would to invite people like yourself onto my privately owned site ? ONCE MORE I ask the simple request, kindly stop posting comments with reference to the nature/style of my posts and I will do the same, and then perhaps we can allow this thread to get back ON TOPIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!  I have no further comments to make to in reply to any subsequent posts you make on the subject of posting styles !!!! It really is getting boring.

FYI Zoes Mum I have been talking today to a lady who has a 7 year old male cavalier stud dog with a clear heart & eye cert and a clear MRI scan & he is a show dog so obviously some show people do care & do do all the tests

BTW I did not post I needed a stud dog, as I have no bitches but I do know someone(a champ show judge in fact) who is looking for a solid SHM clinically clear dog(the above ladies dog is a blenheim so no use to the breeder I know)

edited to add if you had a dog with SHM even symptomless like my boy perhaps you would have a different opinion on breeding from unscanned dogs

>>>Firstly you say both dog and bitch must have been MRI scanned and then you say you are all looking for a stud dog who has been MRI scanned clear, so obviously there are very few cavalier breeders around who bother, which is most odd, seeing that it is so important !!!!!!!!!!

Sorry Zoe's mum, but a huge number of breeders and Cavalier owners DO bother - it is just that out of the many that have bothered, I only know of 2 males scanned clear - and one of those is said to be a carrier as he was apparently bred to a clear bitch and produced affected puppies. If the original poster doesn't know what colours produce what, s/he probably doesn't know all about SM and the other diseases either.

I am keeping the dogs because i have a very big outdoor area since i moved house and my daughter is having two of my dogs soon as they are getting a bit old and to excited so i think its better they go with other old dogs i have 6 alltogether

no offence was ever intended Nicke

Hmmm, well if it is true that a huge number Cavalier K C breeders  have had an MRI scan, as LucyD states, ( I am not so sure that is the case) and only two stud dogs have been found to be clear (with one a carrier) then I am alarmed .....
Perhaps none of us should be breeding Cavaliers at all ??

am not sure on figures but we do know its a huge problem.......

You do not need to discuss it with your vet simply make an appointment with whichever scanning vet you wish to use & tell your vet & if they are caring(which I hope all vets are)they should give you a letter to say they are in agreement with your wish to have an MRI scan done I know my vet was very pro testing for SHM as he now has 5 cases in the practice(three from the same breeder)

Cavalier MRI scanning scheme

Mr Geoff Skerritt
Chester Gates Referral Hospital
Telford Court
Chester Gate
Chester CH1 6LT.

Tel: 01244 853823

Email: SKERRVET@aol.com 
 
or
 
Mr Andrew Robinson
Dovecote Veterinary Hospital
5 Delven Lane
Castle Donington
Derbyshire, DE74 2LJ.

Tel: 01332 810395.

Email: alisonrobinson@dovecoteveterinaryhospital.co.uk 
 
or
 
Dr Nick Jeffery
University of Cambridge, Department of Veterinary Medicine
Maddingley Road
Cambridge,CB3 OES

Tel: (Main Reception) 01223 337621

Email: ndj1000@cam.ac.uk 

Thanks moonmaiden, Chester is only about an hour or so away from me, so that is the one I will use. My own vet is wonderful and definitely very caring, so I will still discuss it with him. Thanks again.