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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Terrier with dominance issues? Help!
- By terradog [us] Date 12.07.05 21:16 UTC
My two year old Parson Russell has been acting funny lately. My family recently moved in with my grandmother who owns a four year old poodle and a twenty year old cat. Normally, he is very submissive to my father and me because we used techniques to display our dominance when he was a puppy. Lately, he has been urinating almost whenever he sees me. He doesn't allow my brothers to pick him up unless he's very sleepy. When they do, he growls at them. This is a behavior that has developed over the last few months. Just today, he snarled and sort of attacked the poodle because they were making eye contact. He also barks at the slightest noise. But that's not the worst of it. Recently, my ten year old cousin was sitting with him on the couch. He doesn't know her very well so he snapped at her when she pet him. The bite drew some blood but I don't think he was trying to bite her, more like warn her. I can't help but think that the way my dad plays with him is impacting him. My dad plays with him by getting down on the ground at his eye level, jumping around, growling and pushing him over. Sometimes, my dad doesn't really end the play time and the dog interacts with the rest of the family in a sort of passive aggressive mood.

Do all of these events point to some dominance issue?

Thanks,
Kalyn

P.S. We recently found out that he is allergic to grass and his skin is somewhat irritated. His behavior has been somewhat melancholy.
- By becks [gb] Date 12.07.05 21:47 UTC
Hmmm are you sure he's not just feeling really insecure? After all its a change of life living with the grandmother and the new animals. This can lead to fear aggession and wanting to find his place in the pack. Urinating when he see's you sounds like he's scared to me.
- By theemx [gb] Date 12.07.05 22:31 UTC
"Do all of these events point to some dominance issue? "

No.

They point to a very mixed up dog who has been trained using fear rather than reward.

He is now more stressed than usual, and as a result is daring to warn people around him that he is uncomfortable. This is evident from the fact that he is submissive to you and your father, and now is even MORE submissive to the point of urinating when he sees you.

Then of course, he has actually bitten someone, that someone being a younger, less threatening person, someone he feels he can get away with biting.

This sort of scenario is WHY 'dominance' theories are utter rubbish, they may work on a naturally submissive, needing to work with people dog, a dog who is always looking for the next instruction like a border collie.....but have terrible results on an independant, feisty 'ill kill you first, ask questions later' breed like a JRT.

What can you do??

Well i suspect not a right lot, since i highly doubt you will persuade your father (even if i persuade you) that your trainig methods have caused this.

If you CAN....

Back off, right off. Leave that dog alone.

See a reputable behaviourist, not one who is still clinging to dominance/pack theories..

Reward your dog for good behaviour in your presence, do so calmly and in a none threatening manner -- gently lob a bit of cheese his way.

Prevent at all costs, anyone threatening him, picking him up, rolling him over, pinning him down, and prevent access to younger people.

Treat his allergy, and make sure he has time and space away from the other dog.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but i get SO mad that people seem unable to see that THEIR bad training methods have caused an upset, wary, nervous aggressive dog.

Em
- By terradog [us] Date 13.07.05 03:13 UTC
First of all, thanks to both of you for your replies. Becks, I did think that part of it might have to do with his insecurities but we've been moved in for two weeks.

Em, thank you for being straight-forward. I in no way consider myself a dog trainer, just someone who does what they think is best for their dog. And most of the time, that is what my vet or someone much more experienced with dogs tells me to do. The dominance techniques were taught to me by an assistant at my vet's when my dog showed displays of aggression. At first, they were very effective and he was a brand new dog. But, nearly two years later, they have no effect on him.

Since then, he hasn't had consistent training although he still obeys sit, stay and come most of the time. My father and brothers treat him like a wrestling buddy.

He is due for his vaccinations soon and I can talk to the vet about a behavior expert then. But until then, should I start his obedience training again? Will this make him a little less fearful or more calm around strangers? My family has agreed to stop the rough play. I hope that will help too.

Thanks for your insight.
- By spettadog [gb] Date 13.07.05 07:21 UTC
Hi Terradog

It took my spaniel almost 4 months to settle into our new house.  During that time he was displaying very strange behaviours.  Please don't think that 2 weeks is a long time for a dog to settle in.  Re going to the vet.  If it was the vet's assistant that told you about the "dominance" techniques, I would be very definite about what type of behaviourist you are looking for and listen not to anybody suggesting further dominance theory tactics.  I hope you sort this out but it may take some time for the little boy to feel better about himself.

Good luck
Annie
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 13.07.05 07:25 UTC

>I did think that part of it might have to do with his insecurities but we've been moved in for two weeks.


That's really a very short time - do you feel completely at home, entirely confident that you're safe everywhere, that you're entirely settled, after two weeks on holiday? Or are you starting to look forward to going home again, to your old familiar environment?
- By Zoe [gb] Date 13.07.05 07:54 UTC
I never want to come home :D lol ... ok apart from to see my dog.
- By theemx [gb] Date 13.07.05 10:37 UTC
:D

Thanks for not being offended :D.

Most of us, when faced with a brand new dog, new to dog owning, would take the advice of a vets assistant or a vet as being correct so no one  can blame you for that!

Vets are not behaviourists, they are not trainers either. (Nor, whilst im at it, are they nutritionalists, or experts on breeding generally).

Definately, go wtih a gentle NILIF program, however NOT something as harsh as Jan Fennel would suggest (this involves a LOT of ignoring your dog which can be very upsetting for them.)

Dont push him, never let him be threatened, prevent or ignore bad behaviour, and reward really well good behaviour.

Dont forget, HE doesnt know what 'bad' behaviour is, he only knows that certain behaviours are rewarded, adn those are the ones he repeats.

So if say growling at someone when asked to stay on the sofa means he gets to stay on the sofa, he will do that again. If showing  submissive postures means whoever is being threatening/scary backs off, then thats what he will do again.

If you reward him for being nice and quiet, reward when he isnt being aggro, reward for everything you ask him to do (start off with things you KNOW he can do, even if its 'stand there' at first) he will eventually get the idea -- it will take time though, so you need to be patient and consistant, not just you, but EVERYONE who comes into contact with the dog -- if they cant do that, then they dont have access to the dog.

If you are going down the behaviourist route, they need to see the dog, talk to them first and if they so much as hint at him being a 'dominant' dog, HANG UP THE PHONE!

This is a serious matter, because whilst he is a small dog, eventually if things carry on the way they are going, he will bite someone very very badly, and end up on a one way trip to the vets.

Oh -- if he is showing signs of allergy to something, he shouldnt have his vaccinations.

Em
- By Brainless [gb] Date 13.07.05 08:06 UTC
I have always wondered why people feel they need to pick up small breeds of dog.  Most mature adult dogs do not like it, but tolerate it.  Certainly children shoudl not be picking him up at all. 

He will see that as invading his space and being rude as he won't see them as entitled to subject him to such indignity.

If you need to work on control issues the4n you can do so with a modified NILIF program.  This means nothingnin life is free.  So do not put yoru dog into situations he finds threatening or unacceptable.  At the same time though let him know that all good things come from you and the things he wants will need to be earned.  This way he will not think he is going up in the world.

So as the othersd have said his trutst and confidence need building up, so he needs to be rewarded for good behaviour.  The best way to be able to do this is to get him to perform good behaviour.  This is best achieved when he is choosing to interact with you (so you are not threatening him).
- By Moonmaiden Date 13.07.05 10:50 UTC
I agree with what the others have written & as I have a small breed(cavaliers)I would like to add my dogs are only picked up when they need to be like for a bath, to be groomed on the grooming table, at the vets & at shows I rarely pick them up at any other time including getting them into the car as they are quite able to jump in & out themselves(unless they are going to a show & then it's to keep them clen only)

My dogs are trained from being puppies to accept being picked up for grooming & showing
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Terrier with dominance issues? Help!

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