Does anyone have any information on the natural dog food comopany. We currently feed Burns but are interested in the natural dog food company and would like to know if anyone uses them. I cannot find any info on how much food to feed dogs so am struggling to make a decision. HELP PLEASE!!!

I only use James wellbeloved. Its totally natural nothing added. My dog has never looked so good.

>Its totally natural nothing added

I would disagree with that ;)

Guest, I have fed the all in one from the natural dog food company, my boy did really well on it but as with all foods he went off it after the first sack :rolleyes: I would put him on it again though.  They do have a website but I couldnt tell you what it is, try doing a search on google :)

Hi ClaireyS

I'm interested in what you say about JWB not being completely natural.  I only feed my dogs on a natural diet and would be really angry if this is being marketed as such when it isn't.   I don't feed my dogs generally on JWB but have done in the past and it is one that I would use for a change.  Can you enlighten me please as I don't want to be buying something with preservatives, colours etc., etc., etc., as it certainly doesn't state that on the pack.

Best wishes
Annie

Having read the information on the naturaldogfood site I'm a bit mystified as to why they won't give the ingredients in the food :rolleyes: after all Burns give a full ingredients list as do many other holistic dog food manufacturers ;)  Personally I don't buy the need for secrecy ;)

This food doesn't look any different to Burns or any of the other natural dog feeds as far as I can see except for not giving the ingredients list ;)

That is indeed very odd Dill I wouldnt buy a food from a company that did not freely advertise their ingredients and every thing else their food contains :(

Some foods such as pedigree,beta etc. make you go through hoops to find out whats in their food and even then they dont tell you,this just makes it look as iff they have something to hide and do not want the general public knowing what they put into their food :(

The website for the all in one is http://www.naturaldogfoodcompany.com

Does anyone have the website for JWB?

I just sent the natural dog food company this e-mail,i'm looking forward to their response.

>I was very interested in your food.That was until i came to your website and discovered you do NOT list the ingredients in your food. This makes me think you have something to hide,as if you were proud of your product you would willingly advertise it's contents.

>Another thing that confused me is the (100% digestable) next to the protein content,i was unaware that any food stuff was 100% digestable??

>The listing of ingredients is just a bug bear of mine,it is something you would expect from pedigree etc. as they obviously dont want the general public knowing what goes into their food,but you proudly advertise your product as all natural etc. ,i was just curious as to why the ingredients are not listed?

>Look forward hearing from you soon<<<<

Interested to hear their response tippie.  I've just checked out jwb website and they categorically state that their products are preserved with vit a and e.  I just wondered if anybody knows any different.

Annie

Hi Tippie, I wouldn't hold your breath about a response from them about ingredients. I also tried to get some information from the Natural Dog Food Company and they wouldn't discuss ingredients by e-mail and told me to ring them. I rang them and they still wouldn't discuss it. I couldn't get any information about feeding costs/amounts either. They said it would cost the same to feed as Burns. I feed the Burns active which is about £6 a bag cheaper than the normal Burns so I explained that to them and asked again about feeding costs and got no response. I asked about other things that they claim: They only use natural vitamins as apparently the synthetic ones that everyone else uses (including Burns) are toxic, I asked for evidence of this and they provided me with links that only expressed opinions not facts. :-( I wouldn't feed this food if they begged me to, not because I think it is rubbish but simply because they won't give out any information about it and that makes me suspicious. At least with other companies they are happy to discuss their food with you, ingredients, feeding costs everything. I don't understand the need for secrecy although they say they want to protect their product. The claim that they only use white meat seems unlikely to me too, it would be a LOT more expensive if that were the case.

Edited: I just checked the website and it seems they have removed the claim about only using white meat, instead they have replaced it with one about not using factory farmed products. I would be dubius about that too as it really depends on their definition of factory farming.....

It would appear that my bitch has a problem with synthetic vitimins and minerals, having tried very hard to find out what was causing her problems, this is the only food that I have come up with that she does not appear to react to. 

James Wellbeloved :)

I think when this has been discussed in the past it was revealed that some companies prefer to reserve the option of making adjustments to ingredients depending on availability etc. and simply ensuring they meet the levels of nutrients, fibre, vitamins, etc. listed.  As the UK food industry is well regulated that is the only thing I am particularly interested in but I suppose if it important to you to know all the components individually and exactly you would just select a product that does that.

If a dog food contains for example, Lamb (40% min), rice  and vegetables (carrots, peas, spinach) with seaweed and a vitamin mixture preserved with vitamins A, E and rosemary oil (not quoting ingredients from any brand of complete food here ;) )  why would that be a problem if they wanted to change quantities slightly?  The only problem would be if they wanted to make big changes eg. cabbage instead of the spinach/wheat instead of rice etc.

No dog food company gives precise, exact ratios of ingredients in their foods, they simply tell you the ingredients and approximate amounts.  So any company which doesn't declare the ingredients would appear to be holding back information.

Forgot to add,

If a company claims or implies that their particular brand is somehow better than others of a similar type and quality then surely they should be proud to publish the ingredients ;)

If the vitamins and minerals remain at the level promised on the packaging why would I mind if it is supplied by cabbage or spinach?  Particularly if it means they can use up gluts of seasonal vegatables for instance not only will it keep down prices for the consumer but also seems far more ethical than letting seasonal products go to waste in favour of products that may have to be imported or grown in unenvironmental ways such as heated tunnels. 

I was merely using Cabbage as an example, but we are all aware of the potential of cabbage to produce copious quantities of sulphurous gasses - which could be a risk of bloat to deep chested dogs :rolleyes: Also just as some dogs have allergies and food intolerances, some owners can be affected by the food they feed their dogs ;) 

Someone with a wheat allergy (FOR EXAMPLE) would have problems feeding their dogs with a food containing wheat, some people react to handling allergens as well as eating them ;)  this would then become an important consideration, which would be greatly affected if, say , wheat was substituted for rice because there was a glut of wheat.

In any case, if paying a premium for a bag of dog food, then you are entitled to ask why the food is considered premium.  Otherwise why not just buy a cheaper brand.

I realised you were just picking example vegatables :), although I would not be surprised to learn spinach was the latest must have ingredient ;)  All the big food manufacturers use nutritionalists so I expect they will appreciate as much as anyone the pitfalls of various items, no point in killing off your market :)  My points still apply though, there is no need to pick an expensive ingredient for marketing a product when other cheaper alternatives can provide the very same nutrients.
Of course if an allergy is an issue you would look for a food that can assure you it is not present all I am saying is for the rest of the dog population it is the nutrients that are supplied that are important not niche market ingredients.

>Otherwise why not just buy a cheaper brand

Why indeed :)  But most of all buy the one that your dog enjoys and thrives on.

>why would I mind if it is supplied by cabbage or spinach

cos spinach gives you big muscles ;)

:D :D

I think they call that a closed recipe.  Personally I prefer that the food I feed has a recipe that does not vary from bath to bath in what ingredients are used.

Brainless thats exactly what i've been trying to say :)

I've heard of dogs who love a certain food,but when the owner buys the next bag the dog turns it's nose up at it,this is another problem with recipe's that can change from batch to batch :(

I also noticed that JWB doesnt give their recipe on their site either

I'm going to have to put a full day aside soon and go out and check out the ingredients to all these foods,i wish it would be as easy as clicking on a particular foods website,as it should be!!

Then clearly one of these foods are not the one for you Brainless :) but for those of us that do not have dogs with sensitivities and any slight variation in taste is going to be a "turn on" rather than a "turn off" :) it would be perfectly acceptable and does not in any way make it a bad food in general.
To me this idea of every ingredient accurately listed is a niche market aimed at owners of dogs with allergies or other special medical problems I don't see why it is required for all the dogs that have not.   I'm only interested that it has all the requirements to keep a "standard" dog healthy :)

Hi dogdeli, im sure I read somewhere (no doubt on here ;) ) that JWB isnt completely natural have looked at their website though and really dont know where my information came from so I suppose I should really take back what I said :p

Here's there reply,talk about backpeddling and dancing around the subject! I have never heard such a crappy excuse :(

The main reason they are not listed is because of commercial expediency. We  list what we are required to by law. We have an large investment in research and simply would loose our commercial edge if we gave it away. :rolleyes:
The BAHNM scheme is designed to provide consumer confidence. Have you looked on their website (click on 'approved products')

Digestibility is a key aspect of BAHNM certified products. The type of raw material used is a vital aspect of this. 
Please telephone if you wish. We can  discuss these issues more freely that way.

As for the excuse of being able to change ingredients at will,could this "excuse" be an attempt to get around changing the ingredients whenever they feel like it? If they dont publish the ingredients then they have nothing to stick by :rolleyes: This is especially important for allergic dogs,as the owner wont know what one bag contains to the next,it is not only iresponsible but could be down right dangerous :(

I swear,these dog food companies must think we are a bunch of uneducated blithering fools who believe and trust everything they say

I called them this afternoon,but ended up hanging up on the woman i spoke to,she could not answer any of my questions,and was stuttering and umming and ahhing,she even put me on hold a couple of times "to ask her supervisor" only to come back and say this is propietry(sp) information,she did not know what to say when i told her i had no problems getting this info from other manufactures

I am so dissapointed as i was really looking forward to trying their food!

I'm sure allergy sufferers or carers are going to be great label readers therefore are not likely to buy a product without a full list but for all the the others "the commercial expediency" seems a good idea in keeping costs down for everyone.
Are you in the UK Tippie? in which case I think it is reasonable to trust that whatever is used must be fit for the purpose.
Give it a go, your dog may love it :)

yes i am in the UK :)

I was unaware that the all in one was available in other countries Isabel

I've no idea, my point was if you live in the UK you can trust a food to be safe albeit you may have issues with ingredients due to sensitivity etc :)

Tippie, I feel as though I've been here before. I had the exact same conversation with them and also hung up out of frustration. Stick to the Burns! At least with them if you ask questions they are only too willing to help!

Are your dog/s allergic, then, tippie? What breed have you got - is it a breed known for digestive sensitivity?

No Jeangenie none of my dogs are allergic,i have yorkies :)

It's just the point of the whole thing,if a company does not want to disclose something as simple and as important as their ingredients then in my opinion they either have something to hide or are not what they say they are.

Would any of you feed your kids a product that the manufacture would not give you the ingredients for?

Why do you think that the ability to respond to what is available in the marketplace in order to make the product economic is not a perfectly good explanation, what is there to hide about that?
Human food is different, they do not tend to be complete in any way in fact human convenience foods are generally marketed as a treat not to be fed regularly, therefore if you are expecting to make up the balance yourself you need to know what has already been given.  If a childs food was made up by a nutritionist as a complete food and the child had no allergies or that had been taken into account by the nutritionist I think I would be happy to trust them to make a decent job of it, a lot better than some mothers seem to manage :D

Tippie

I would argue that most people have no idea what they feed themsleves let alone their kids! How many peopel read the lable let alone understand them? The only way you can be 100% certain is to produce it all and prepare it all yourself. Most people cannot or will not do that.

As for secrecy, try asking Mr Kipling the details of what he puts in his pies, I very much doubt that he will tell you in any detail. Formulas for food are one of the few things that you cannot copyright and so why the hell should someone who has done loads of research to produce what they consider to be a top class product give away all that work to every tom dick or harry who may well then use it to compete against them?  

Bluebell, nobody wants them to give away the recipe, it woulf be nice if they would give some information on ingredients. They won't even tell you what they put in it. You can ask Burns and other companies and they will tell you what is in the food but this company won't even do that. It's as if they want you to buy a bag to find out how much it will cost to feed and what they put in it, why would you do that only to find that there is something that your dog can't have?

Hi Colliemad
If your dog has issues with certain products, they will certainly tell you if they are in their food. However remember that these guys are tiny compared even with the likes of Burns and are well aware of their lack of resources if they ended up in court etc with one of the big boys. But being a small company they also have more to loose if customers or potential customers find problems with their product - they are also not run by accountants, but by a dog loving nutritionist.

As for the cost of feeding that is almost impossible to tell with any food. I have 2 Labs and one only needs about 2/3 of what the other does, so Im not sure how anyone can say exactly how much it would cost to feed any given breed. All I can say is that a 15kg bag fed with about 5 to 10% extras does my two labs about 5 weeks, a bit less if one of them is working or we have some extra time for more walkies, which is slightly better than the Autarky that I was feeding previously - that was averaging 4 weeks.  

At the end of the day it is my belief that the only way to be 100% certain what is going in to your dog is to grow and prepare all of the food yourself - for most of us that is simply not practical and way beyond what we even manage for ourselves.

If anyone of you are having real issues with them I would be happy to contact them on your behalf, however please be realistic, there is no way that they will provide a detailed list of all ingredients, but if you ask specific questions like does it contain wheat the question will be answered. If you want to take me up on this please e-mail me or PM me - I check my e-mail every day not my PMs!

Bluebell; The point is I could buy a bag of their food and it would have ingredients listed as it has to, yet they will not tell you on their website or over the 'phone before you buy it. As for feeding costs I simply asked them what their recommended feeding amounts were and they wouldn't tell me just kept going on about being BAHMN? certified and how it would cost the same as Burns to feed..... I know that every food is different and none of my dogs have the recommended amount but I like to use it as a rough guide.  I don't have a problem with their product, I never got to try it because I found the company less than willing to talk about it which in itself is strange. When I contacted Burns they sent me leaflets listing all their products, ingredients, protein and fat levels etc. The sent me free samples and even put me through to a nutritionist to speak to about the particular problems that I was having with my dogs. They bent over backwards to help me and answer any questions that I had. The natural dog food company didn't, they may be run by a dog loving nutritionist but that doesn't mean that we should automatically trust them any more than we should trust Pedigree because "top breeders recommend it" or Burns because it was developed by a vet! No-one here is suggesting that their food is rubbish. I have to say though that never having used it I wouldn't be able to recommend it and if anyone wanted to get in touch with them and find out more  then good luck to them, they will need it! That is the last I have to say on this subject which I think has in fact run it's course.

Hi ClaireyS

Thanks for getting back to me.  I wondered if you knew something that I didn't and was a bit worried about it as I am a "natural only" person!  I had a look yesterday as well because I was concerned but there didn't seem to be anything added.  Thanks a lot for checking it out for me too.

Kind regards
Annie

By law you have to state the exact content of what is in your product on your packaging.  However most pet food companies get around this by the meat and animal derivatives statement or "of vegetable origin".  I personally would not buy anything that I didn't know exactly what was in it for the reasons that you state Tippie.  I know exactly what cut throat competition is all about but I think, morally, if you are selling a product you claim to be 100% natural, you have to let the customer know exactly what is in it.  Natural is not always healthy!!!!  They are marketing themselves as a "healthy" company with the accreditation etc., but if they are not prepared to be honest about ingredients then I would be very wary.  You can look on the back of all of the natural dog foods without exception and find ALL the ingredients listed.  What is so different about theirs?  I would imagine there will be nothing in their product that differs from the rest.  Just seems to be a bit "suspect" to me.  I would stick to Burns, at least you know what you're getting.

Kind regards
Annie

PS:  I also had a look at their website yesterday and a FAQ was "why do dogs eat grass".  You got 3 answers, none of which included "because they actually like the taste!" - My dogs love eating the juicy type of grass and I know one lady who feeds her dogs 100% BARF and goes out picking the juicy stems to chop up for her dogs.  Maybe I'm wrong!!!!!  (always like to cover myself!) - talk about sitting on the fence!!!!!!

I'm not interested in their "formula" or any other propietry information,all i want is the bloomin' ingredients. So many other reputable companies have no problems in giving these details out,why is this company so different?

If you visit the sites of the top US foods you will see each and every ingredient in their foods,so i think there is a little more to it that we dont know??