I was looking at labrador sites and came across Silver Ladradors in AMERICA. I was puzzled by the americans trying to claim a new colour.In my last litter I had yellow black and chocolate.This time I have mated my girl with a chocolate to solidify any chocolates she has as last ones were mid chocolates .They are chocolates not Silver .Some American breeders?? are conning people  hope there are no breeders that do that here in uk

Silver labs are technically either a dilute black or dilute chocolate, I don't remember which.  How is giving a specific description to a non-standard breed color "conning" someone?

Because the gullible will believe they have found something 'rare' or 'special', and the breeders will exploit that by charging mega bucks.

Dawn R.

Those so-called breeders are charging people double.All my labs are same price regardless of colour .They want Silver reconised as a seperate colour to justify their price.Anyone who doesn`t know about lab colour (yellow black cocolate) will be conned into thinking they have found something special when it can be there in a lot of litters if you mix colours.M y girl is black with yellow gene and as I found out from breeder chocolate grandmother.The stud (line breeding )was black with yellow gene.Resultineg in all three colours,my yellows were almost white with darker ears.

i think this colour is beautiful although there is some doubt as to whether they are in fact purebred labradors, they are beautiful all the same :-)

A couple that I saw were a lovely colour but I would question if they were pure breed labs as the colour belongs to another breed and the parents were too tall.Big hint there if you know your dogs.

Don't mean to offend anyone, but judging by the pictures I've seen I'd say they were quite ugly looking labs, if they are indeed purebred labs.

some did look weird ,that`s my point as a lab breeder and lover of the breed it offends me that some people are conning the public in the name of labrador. I also add their temperment could be off .

Don't be suprised at humans and the things they will do :-)

I had a puppy in today 7 months old for trimming. Couple Paid £500 for it a  " westie"

While the owners were away and I was busy trimming it I  was guessing or trying to guess what it was a crossed with   It had a long long coat like a skye terrier but it was only 7 months old. I was speechless.  I let it run around to watch it move and it was moving like a schnauzer.  Head was a schnauzer also.  .

When the came back we were doing the usual chatting and out came the story of where it came from and that they breed schnauzers also :-))   I was trying to keep a straight face.

Poor people.

Blue - just out of curiosity - did you let them know of your suspicions? :)

I didn't have to actually come out and say anything as they already thought it was not quite 100%.  They had a nosey in my puppy run at 2 other 5-7 months old pups :-D

What was the actual colour of this so called 'Westy'?

White :-)    but that is the problem in westies in my opinion if they are white people believe the must be a westie..

to me its quite obvious they look like Weimeraners..i am a member of the LRC the national parent club of the Labrador and they are planning on taking a stand against the so-called silver labs..

I too think they have a look of weimeraners. 

I think they are Weimeraner cross Labrador by looking at the pictures.I dont no ho w people can do this, what next!!!

Fiona

If you cross a Weimaraner with any other breed it will NEVER produce silver....................................

It is just not possible.

If there IS Weimaraner in the "mix" it will not have produced the colour.................

If they were put to a poor coloured chocolate I think that they would produce a Weimeraner colour.  Some of those Lab's on those websites definitely had Weimeraner heads in my opinion :d  I'm not into colour genetics, but as our breed are allowed to have all shades of brown and I've seen ones that were born dark brown turn into a Weimeraner silver by the age of 2 it's definitely possible in our breed so why not Lab's especially if they were bred chocolate to chocolate for a few generations with Weimeraner's thrown into the mix :d

It's amazing what people will do for that extra dollar!!  But there again if they can get gullible people who don't look into how the breed are supposed to be it's not surprising.

The silver comes from the dilute chocolate on the lab side, a Weimaraner is genetically incapable of "throwing" the silver colour itself when mixed with any other colour..........

They may well have weimaraner in them but it would not produce a silver colour per se.

Silver could be introduced using the Weimaraner but not in the 1st generation. Two offspring of Lab x Weim bred together could produce silver.

Julie

I love reading the colour genetics but what is interesting is we must remember not to take things as 100% everything and anything is possible.

Some people argue genetically that choc to choc doesn't lose pigmentation BUT I know very very experienced breeders who are sure it does.

Yes people write about things and have done loads and loads of tests, trials etc.. BUT nothing is 100% and just as we think we have the infinitive answer out pops a red herring to put us back in place. :-)

Wished some of you had seen the westie/Schnauzers it was the funniest thing ever and really obvious the 2 breeds in it..

That is my thoughts on it all anyway.

Have to say it's the larger ears, face and eye set that reminds me of a weimaraner in the photos I've seen, rather than the colour.

JenP I have to agree with you I didn't think that they were part Weimeraner because of the colour only because their heads were the spitting image of them in some of the pictures.

i am glad to read you are taking a stand against the labrador /weimaraner  cross .Are you LRC in US?

Hi Trek....yes i am in the Us.the LRC is also not to thrilled about labradoodles.i had a wiem /dobie cross here for training that was without a doubt silver so i 'm not sure about the color inheritence on first glance it was hard to tell this dog was not a Weim.except it had a pointier nose and sublte tan markings like a dobe

Remember the Isabella colouring in Dobes has been mistaken for "silver" and the breeds are often confused by the unwary.

Yes I believe that Labradoodles are a big thing in the US and going for really high prices.  Unfortunately it's happening here to a lesser scale.  Shame that people can't improve on breeds that are already out there and before anyone says anyting my breed has been going for centuries with the farmers and fishermen of Spain, they are not a new breed like many that are out and about now!

Hi Tohme...Dobes do come in blue too so that could explain the color ,,but regardless of the color the features of those silver labs are very weim like,,big round light coloured eyes are not a trait of labradors..as far as labradoodles i have one here for trainig right now,,possibly the dumbest dog i've ever seen ..goofy and moronic..basicly just a mutt

Isabella in the Dobermann is the same gene combination as this "silver" (if it is indeed due to incorporating Wiem blood), with the addition of tan points.  Genetically known as lilac, the genotype is bb dd (dilute brown).  Lilac is also possible in other breeds that have dilute as well as brown in the gene pool.  Border Collies do and also my own breed Finnish Lapphunds though very rare in these.

If you bred a Weimaraner to an isabella Dobe or any other lilac, all pups would be solid lilac as in the Wiem.

Julie

Hello wouldn't DNA profiling help inthis situation and prove if the parentage  is indeed pure lab,

Silver Labradors are actually quite common now in both the US, and here in Canada. They are most definitely a Weim X Lab cross and are not a recognized colour in the Labrador Retriever. The breeders who are marketing these "rare" Labs are charging around double price for them and (in my opinion) have zero integrity or concern for the breed. This is as much a problem for our breed as the Labradoodles are but most people are wise to the scam now and these breeders are having a harder and harder time finding people who believe the con. There are certainly people who appreciate the look and will buy a puppy, knowing that it is most likely a cross-bred dog. I personally think they look nothing like a Labrador... more like an eerie "ghost-Lab."

Some one close to me breeds something called "Fenlander puppies",
they are Weimaraner cross springer spaniels.  They are supposed to
be fantastic working dogs. But I would have to see it with my own eyes
as having a dog like a Weim with prey drive and ranging up front, with a
springers busy mind. I cant see it working, but who knows.  The only
thing that makes me sad is that if someone is breeding cross breeds they
are not health testing through the BVA. It could potentially put into a
new breed lots of health problems.
Rachel

for those interested in coat colour genetics in labradors see the following link.

http://www.labbies.com/genetics2.htm

it is very interesting. i can see the main problem with silver labs is breeders selling them for higher prices, but i don't understand why people are so against them. remember, chocolates had difficulties being recognised at first because they were caused by the recessive allele. it has not been proven if silver labradors have weim blood in their history. "innocent til proven guilty"
mutations occur randomly in all living organisms, the occurrence of a mutation in the dilution gene in the labrador could have caused the silvers to emerge. there are so many theories to the origins of the silver, and they shouldn't be dismissed, because people think they're ugly or look like weimaraners. i personally think silvers (which is a dilution of chocolate) and charcoals (which is a dilution of black) are beautiful, and would certainly consider owning one. people breed for looks and i can understand why people would want to breed silvers/charcoals.

The article is nearly 3 years old why re-open it now?

Linda

Silver Labradors are not recognised by the Kennel Club so therefore, they should not been bred specifically for their colour IMO. So occasionally one may crop up in a litter, it doesn't mean that they should be encouraged to be multiplied by unscrupulous breeders hoping to cash in on a new fad.

As far as I'm away, chocolate Labradors have not recently been introduced into the KC Breed Standard or if there was ever a time when they were not recognised by the Kennel Club.

You're right Linda.......why open a 3 yr old topic now?...............unless they have something to gain by doing so ;-)

Did chocolates have difficulty being recognized, not in my memory, there have been livers for as long back as I can think and I cannot remember anything.

As others have said, why re-open this thread, you have added nothing new except to suggest that the liver was not a recognized colour at one time and there was difficulty in getting it recognized, perhaps you would like to enlarge on that, that would be of interest.

I have not changed my mind in the last 3 years I still think silver labs are crossbreeds I have owned this breed for 45 years with a short break while I was in Army and I have never seen a naturally produced silver lab and have never heard of one produced from honest breeders.Its an American thing just like labradooddles (another crossbreed)

Too be honest i have never heard of silver labs.

Its an American fad for making money.I saw a litter advertised here in UK a few months back they were charging double the price of black yellow or chocolate.

> .I saw a litter advertised here in UK a few months back they were charging double the price of black yellow or chocolate.

Yes, & there was a blatent attempt last year by some nitwit to register Silver Labs with the KC............... rightly, the KC allowed no such thing!

there are lots of lab/weim crosses advertised now. And Blue Weims at an inflated price for 'rare' colour. can Blue weims be registered as such in this country, or would it be thrown out like the silver lab?