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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Bl**dy Vets!!!!
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- By Isabel Date 30.06.05 08:56 UTC
I think it is a terrible shame if post like these make you afraid of vets, Lazydaze, even if this particular vet is a bit wacky with strange ideas about puppy weights it should not make you loose sight of the fact that the vast majority are highly intelligent well educated people. 
The illnesses that vets treat will very often relate to matters of nutrition and weight thereby providing them with plenty of experience in that field as I have said before I really cannot see how you can study anatomy and physiology and certainly not aetiology and miss out that very important factor.
The will also have the benefit of seeing many fit animals when dealing with routine vaccination, health testing etc so I expect they know what a healthy animal should look like too :)
- By Alli [gb] Date 30.06.05 09:02 UTC
I have spoken to the new owner this morning, and she told me that her vet knew I was going to call, as she asked him to have all her weight records printed off so we could discuss what had been happening. When I called yesterday and asked to speak to him he was unavailable. I'm almost tempted to make an appointment at this vets purely to see what weight chart they are going by. I have also asked her if she wants to think about making a complaint against the surgery. To be honest at the moment she is more concerned about getting her puppy to a healthy weight. I phoned my vet this morning and explained the situation and he has managed to squeeze us in this afternoon. The new owner has taken lots of pictures and I fully intend to take some myself today, just to keep incase she decides at any point to take it further. Thankyou all for your replies, your comments and advice has been really interesting. I'll keep you all updated and let you know how we get on this afternoon.
- By Isabel Date 30.06.05 09:41 UTC
That is good step Alli, I think your vets opinion will be far more useful than those of us on a web site who haven't even seen the pup :)
How long was it since the owners vet had weighed the pup.  Just a thought but might they have been suprised as well at how low the pups weight had gone if it had been nearly a week say?
- By Fillis Date 30.06.05 10:13 UTC
Alli has seen the pup, and if, in her opinion as a breeder, it is "skin and bone", that is good enough for me. :)
- By Isabel Date 30.06.05 10:30 UTC
Then she has the option to go straight to the RCVS but I think she is doing a sensible thing in seeking a second professional opinion before she does so :) 
- By satincollie (Moderator) Date 30.06.05 10:43 UTC
The one question in my mind is how involved has the actual vet been or has the main advice and regular weigh been left to the vet nurse? That said I hope the final outcome for the puppy is  a healthy happy dog.
- By Isabel Date 30.06.05 11:02 UTC
That's just the sort of thing I think should be looked into Gillian :), also is fortnightly monitoring enough seems like a long time to leave owners to their own devices if they have perhaps missunderstood any feeding instructions like the rate of increase.  An investigation by the RCVS would establish all that together with the current professional thinking on ideal weights as it may be different to that we have regarded as desirable in past.  There is certainly much to be looking into in this affair but I don't think trial by website is quite adequate to get to all the relevant points :)
- By lazydaze [gb] Date 30.06.05 15:26 UTC
Sorry Isabel :) was just gobmacked at the thread.
I know most vets are really good at what they do, and some even know lots about certain breeds they are interested in.
- By Isabel Date 30.06.05 15:37 UTC
No need to appologise :) I think these threads do sometimes cause people to get overly anxious about the quality of veterinary care generally but it sounds like you have a healthy sense of proportion.
- By Alli [gb] Date 30.06.05 15:58 UTC
Ok just back from my Vet, he shook his head and said 'what? they want to take weight off this puppy' He couldn't understand how anymore weight could be taken off a puppy of that age. He thinks they were following the chart too closely and not observing the puppy by eye. He also said he felt it was better for them to be slightly over weight than under. So the gradual food increase is the right way to go and he has asked to see her back in a weeks time just to see how things are progressing. After much discussion the new owner has decided she doesn't want the hassle of a complaint. The best bit of all is that my vet stays about 8 doors down the road from the new owner lol, so he'll be able to keep a very close eye on the puppy.
- By Isabel Date 30.06.05 16:31 UTC
Did the first vets want more weight off, when did they last see it?
- By Alli [gb] Date 30.06.05 16:43 UTC
The first vet saw her at the end of last week and said she still needed to slow down a bit, thats when they recommended her food be cut again. My vet today said today to gradually increase her food to the manufacturers recommended amount, as that is what she has been raised on anyway, and has done so well on up until she was told to take weight off of her. We discussed what my puppies are being fed and it's almost 3 times more. I have to say I am astounded that the vet would say that she was overweight at 8 weeks as my vet looked at the puppies 2 days before they went home and he said how well they were all doing.The other thing that we discussed today is the fact the the first vet never once mentioned exercise to the owner (she knew about this anyway as I had advised in conversation and also in the puppy pack that went with the puppy)  however the lack of knowledge concerning the Setter breeds astounds me. Surely it doesn't take too long to read up a bit to keep themselves imformed or to openly admit they don't know as much as they should and advise their clients to take advice from the breeder. Hopefully all will be resolved and the wee girl in question will be a bit happier now.
- By Isabel Date 30.06.05 16:51 UTC
She could loose a lot in a week at that age so maybe the original vet would have recommended a halt to the weight loss or even a gain too.  It seems from what you say your vet does not think she was dangerously thin just not needing to loose more so perhaps its just a question of opinion I know for sure that my vet would disagree with the view that they are better overweight :) and as others have said on here feeding to manufacturers recommendations would be too much for their taste so I'm not sure that a complaint would have lead to anything.  I think it best though that this pup has been changed to the care of someone that you have more confidence in :)
- By Dill [gb] Date 30.06.05 20:29 UTC
I can honestly say if you can see the pin bones (hip bones) of any dog or puppy then the animal is far too thin :( even a full grown Afghan should not be so thin as to see the pin bones thru the coat, and they are supposed to be prominent in that breed. 

Being a proffessional, the vet would be unlikely to openly criticise another vet to clients, the fact that he was willing to advise on another vets client speaks volumes ;)
- By ClaireyS Date 30.06.05 21:16 UTC
Isabel, I dont know about other breeds of dog but it is important that Setters keep some weight on them especially when they are pups, and it is certainly better for them to be slightly over weight than under because they grow so fast and lose it so quick.  I admit I underfed my first boy, I fed him the recommended amount from Burns and I thought I was doing the right thing by him, having grown up with Afghans I was used to skinny pups and had nothing to compare him with - his breeders were shocked when they saw him at 13 weeks old, he was skin and bone :(  After that I changed his food and managed to get some weight on him but really that did affect him because even now at 15 months old he is pathetically thin, I had problems feeding him for a few months which didnt help but had he retained some weight from his younger days he might not be so thin now and I blame myself for that.  So yes we dont want grossly over weight pups, but pups with a good covering :)
- By nuttyhousewife [gb] Date 30.06.05 20:57 UTC
hi i rescued a 3 year old bullmastiff and he was so thin,i wanted him done but the vet said he was to fat ,he so wasnt so i went to another vets and it was sorted but i was new to the breed i now no not to trust vets 100%
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Bl**dy Vets!!!!
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