I have trauled the net for information about obtaining a 'silver' labrador pup and it seems that  the USA is the only place with a recognised (AKC) breeding programme ? I have only ever owned labradors and would not consider any other dog ! Could some one help me locate a so called silver labrador puppy anywhere in the UK ? Or perhaps let me know of concensus among breeders with regard to this apparent aberation ? My emial : gilly.hunt@btopenworld.com  Many thanks.

Labradors are not my breed so hopefully someone more in the know will be along soon but these are my thoughts meantime :)
I suppose this colour may occasionally occur in a litter but I would image very rarely.  You talk of breeding programs but as the KC standard does not permit this colour presumable any breeder with such a program would be working outside the Breed club and therefore outside their code of ethics.  Unless they have a very sincere aim of devoloping this colour as a standard, which seems unlikely to me, you are left with the prospect that it is purely a money making escapade.  Personally, outside the Breed Club Code of Ethics + money incentive = a breeder that I would never choose to deal with :)

The AKC Breed Standard states 'The Labrador Retriever coat colors are black, yellow and chocolate. Any other color or a combination of colors is a disqualification'.  I'm not sure where you got the idea that there was a recognised (AKC) breeding programme for silver labradors, unless it's another marketing 'claim' by these 'silver' labrador breeders.  I'd be interested to know what breeding programme this is.

Hiya Gilly,

If you join champdogs and then put 'silver labs' in the search engine, you will probably find pages and pages about them.  The only permissable colours here in the UK are Black, Yellow and Liver/Chocolate.  Silver labs are very dilute forms of chocolate, often with rather pink eyerims and noses, they are not a 'rare' colour, or a 'special' colour.  With approx 45,000 labs registered last year (approx:)), the last thing we need is a designer colour coming into the mix.  This is what happened with the choccies about 5 years ago, they became very popular and unscrupulous breeders took advantage. I'm not suggesting that all choccies are not well bred (perish the thought!), but there are certainly some that I've seen over the last few years who's breeding is less than good.  There was a claim put about by one specialist silver lab breeder in the USA, that they would pay out a large amount of money if anyone could prove, using DNA, that their dogs were not pure breds - it had been suggested that the silvering colour went back to crosses with Weims, but as the colour is a diluted form of a correct labrador colour, I guess that the American breeder is pretty safe! But they do state that they cross silver to silver to silver etc, therefore their gene pool must be very small, with all the potential health problems that this may show!
Indeed, over the years there have been many odd colours that crop up from time to time, silvers, spots etc, I used to know a black and tan labrador with a very good pedigree.
I have spoken to people in the USA about their 'silver' labs, most of the people obviously love their dogs, but some also say that they were first attracted by the 'special' colour - If they wanted a silver grey dog, what its wrong with the Weimeraner?
Sorry to go on for so long, please join us and share your views.

Ali :)

The registry of the American Kennel Club is based on parentage and not the coat color of a member of any breed.

In 1987 the AKC, in corporation with the Labrador Retriever Club of America, conducted an inquiry into the breeding of litters that contained members that were registered as silver. An AKC representative was sent to observe these dogs. The report and color photographs of these dogs were reviewed by AKC staff and representatives of the Labrador Retriever Club of America. Both Parties were satisfied that there was no reason to doubt that the dogs were purebred Labrador Retrievers, however they felt that the dogs were incorrectly registered as silver. Since the breed standard at the time described chocolate as ranging in shade form sedge to chocolate, it was felt that the dogs could more accurately be described as chocolate rather than silver. This remains the current policy of the American Kennel Club.

Jack Norton
Special Services Dept

General Lab breeders have consulted with geneticists on the feasibility of performing genetic analysis on the silver Labradors.  Current DNA technology is, ironically, too specific a method for assessing genetic relationship between silver Labs and the general Lab population. Although parentage can be determined by DNA testing, there exists too much genetic diversity even between related Labrador bloodlines, which limits the ability of this method to prove or disprove the degree of relatedness between silver Labs and the general Lab population.

The silver coloration is considered a serious fault in the breed. Therefore, it is recommended that silver puppies produced by registered Labs be placed in pet-homes without AKC registration papers or with Limited Registration to prevent further propagation of the silver gene. If registered with the AKC they must be as chocolate as this is what they are deemed to be.

Please bear in mind this is from the AKC not KC.

I will refrain from putting over my personal viewpoint ;)
Kay

I met a "silver" Labrador whilst in USA 2 years ago on a Labrador Holiday.
It dd not resemble a Lab at all, being more Weim or GSP like in structure. Very nervous with skin issues and to top it off ............. it wasn't silver, wasn't even grey, was sort of pale mousy brown.
NO decent breeder would breed for an incorrect colour.

I would like to add to this discussuion about colours.......

My baby has just had a little of puppies....  she's 2 now, and one was a tan colour with a chocolate/ black spot between her ears.........  :)  she's gorgeous... But Ive never seen one before..... has anyone else seen a mixture like it?

She's has a black mother and chocolate coloured father, but her grandfather was tan.......

LynEva, there are only 3 colour of Labrador, Black, Yellow and Liver(chocolate). There is no such thing as a tan Labrador! He may have been a paler shade of chocolate.  what colour did it state on his KC Reg Papers?

She's a golden lab........  but a dark golden.......  you can get lighter golden ones aswell.......  but your right, she is golden.

But have you seen any with a distinct chocolate / black marking on their heads???

LynEva, there is no such colour as 'golden' in Labradors, the colour is yellow, this can vary from a very pale yellow to Fox Red,

And no, personally I have never seen a mismark Labrador.

right..........  ok.........   Im sorry I asked....  :(

Never be sorry to ask anything LynEva, I am just a little upset that all these questions show you know very little about Labrador, yet you are now a breeder!!!!

I am NOT a breeder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   My baby has had the 1 and only litter!!!!!!!!  I have had dogs all my life and never bred from them!!!!!!!!!!!   YOUR UPSET!!!!!!!!!!!  now Im upset...

forget I asked......  Im sorry

LynEva, the truth can be upsetting.  you have bred a litter, therefore you are a breeder!!!

In my breed we have browns and they can vary from light brown to dark brown.  Quite often they go a lot lighter as they age and there are a number that after a short time become a Weimeraner colour, but theyare still brown.  Suppose that this is very similar.

thank you perrodeagua

how can you judge people that you dont even know.

Im sorry, but I only wanted an answer to a simple question......  and now Im being dragged into something I dont need.

One thing is fer certain........  Im not guilty of what your accusing me..... so get on with it

Im sorry I asked a simple question.

take care
bye

Guilty of being a breeder!! I'm a breeder (very occasionally) and have never felt it something to be guilty about.

Isabel.......  it's nothing to be guilty about....

But I have only bred once in my lifetime of dogs...... and now I feel like Im doing something wrong......

If you read up at my very simple question to begin with......  and by now Im branded something Im not........  thats what upsets me :(

LynEva you have bred your bitch, you dont even know what health test are required for the breed, you dont even know what colours you breed come in. How could you even consider breeding without doing all this!!!!!

LynEva, are the parents and grandparents of these puppies health tested?

I asked this question in her other post but never got a reply, however she did ask earlier after saying she had bred this litter that she did not know what test were required and how did she go about getting them done!!!!!!

LynEva
Having just seen another post, you have bred your girl (and it would seem your girl was bred from your mothers bitch) without eye tests and hip scores.  Judging by your post you don't even know what they are :( sorry if it sounds harsh, but that is poor breeding practice and very wrong.

It depends what you think you have been branded.  There is no shame in being a breeder however........mating two dogs of a breed when appearing to know so little about a breed that you cannot even apply correct terms, without any apparent health test being done prior to mating ........well let's just say I can understand why others who appreciate what is involved in responsible breeding would feel a bit agrieved at your actions and reactions to their pointing out areas that you might like to take on board in case you are ever considering this again.

I dont understand - who has said you are something that you are not? You have bred a litter of puppies therefore you are a breeder. From your mails I would guess you have bred this litter so you can keep one for yourself, and that you did not do much research before bringing these pups into the world. Rightly, you are concerned that the pup you are selling goes to the right home, but I do wonder what kind of a state you would be in if your girl presented you with 9 or 10 puppies.

I know all these post sound harsh and you probably think people are being picky but as a dog lover you could perhaps appreciate that not only should you be striving to breed a puppy that will look very much like a quality labrador to bring its new owner pleasure but also to avoid the heartbreak of buying and growing to love a puppy that develops a serious health problem during its life time, such as hip dysplasia.  That is why people are so upset by your actions.

I'm sorry you feel as you do, but the fact is that if you breed just one litter or fifty, you are a breeder.  In addition, a breeder should put the same knowledge, experience and care into breeding whether you breed one litter or fifty.  We do not know you, but the things you have said in your posts make it clear that you do not have a lot of knowledge about labradors and to most responsible breeders and dog owners it is wrong to breed without a good knowledge of the breed.  Many people own dogs all their life, but do not have the knowledge to breed, the two things do not necessarily go hand in hand. 

If somebody who has only had one litter ever is not a breeder, then what WOULD they be? The SELLER of the pups? The provider of the pups? No of course not, they will be the breeder. :) Likwise even if you just have one child, you're still a mother. ;)

Marianne

LynEva, you say you're not a breeder.

Who are you going to name as the breeder of the pups when you register them? ;)

>> one was a tan colour with a chocolate/ black spot between her ears

This could be what's known as a somatic mutation.  Don't worry, nothing wrong with it ;-)

The gene combination that makes yellow is ee and this is quite unstable and often mutates back to E in places causing dark hairs among the yellow.  Usually this can be seen as single dark hairs in the coats of ees (Westies, white/apricot Poodles, Golden Retrievers as well as Labs) and these are quite common, in fact most of these will have a few dark hairs scattered in the yellow.  Patches are less common.

Julie

thank you Julie V.

Thats all I wanted to know, cause Im keeping her anyway, I just wanted to know if it was common or not.

Thanks

ok.......  I get the message.

My Dog's mother and Father are both Kennel club registered... so is my dog, both my puppies will be too, if everything is ok......

Im sorry, I only wanted some advice. I shall go elsewhere in future.

Id like to set the record straight.....  the only reason I bred from her was because so many people loved the mother and I had a list of people who wanted a puppy from her....  but as it goes, she only had two, and I want to keep the Golden one, but Im having to sell the black one to pay the vets fees.....

Anyway.....  thats enough from me.

sorry to have disturbed you all :(    bye

Sorry LynEva, I don't understand.  If you had a list of people wanting a puppy from her, why aren't you selling the other puppy to a person on the list instead of trying to advertise her on here?

There are 44,000 labradors bred each year.  The disappointed people won't have to look far for a puppy.

because I was going to give them...... I wasnt going to sell them, because I knew they would have gone to a good home.........   but with the vets fee's, I hope to sell her to pay for it.

So all the people on your list wanted a free puppy but aren't prepared to pay for one????????????  They expected you to do 8 weeks work for free??  If they don't think that they are worth anything, why do you think that they would be good homes?  People don't tend to value things that they don't pay for, especially in this throw away society. :(  I sincerely think that you've had a lucky escape.

FWIW although many people assume that the silver colour in labs or any other breed stems from the Weimaraner, this has no bearing in fact.

All the Weimaraner X breeds that have been mistakenly or deliberately bred have, without fail, always turned out a different colour, mostly black and NONE have been silver..............

As said earlier, the "silver" colour that appears in some breeds is a result of dilute chocolate/liver...........

Snap Val

I know.........  It's just me being silly...

They didnt know I wasnt going to charge for them.....  these people are family and 2 good friends of mine....  I feel guilty asking them for money for her  :(

I was hopeing it would have been easier to sell to someone else.......  :(

Im just a softie.......   :(

They didnt know I wasnt going to charge for them.....
Then explain to them that you will charge them a nominal amount to cover the Vet's bill, and tell them to get them insured because you haven't health tested.   That will at least save them the financial worry and you will still keep in touch with your puppy!  And don't gove them the registration papers so that the bitch won't be bred from and break this cycle of untested labradors.

So rather than ask friend or family to pay for their puppy you tried to sell her to someone looking for one on another thread?...This doesnt make sense :(

So you had a list of people wanting to have a pup if they were free, but now you want some money for her they aren't interested :(  You say they would have gone to a good home, but one has to wonder!  If they weren't prepared to pay for a puppy and wanted it for free, would they have been prepared to put their hands in their pockets to pay for vet fees etc.   A particular concern in the case of your puppies, considering you haven't had the parents eye, hip and elbow tested and if they develop the problems these are extremely expensive conditions to treat.

LynEva, the labrador comes in three colours; black, chocolate/liver, and yellow (which can vary from pale cream to fox red, but is still called yellow).

Pictures of mismarks can be found here.

I will give her a health check before she leaves here.........   thats for cetain...  Im going to make sure she has the clean bill of health and jabs....

awwwwww everyone thinks Im going to get rid of her without asking any questions.......  :(

I do look after them, and I will do........  they get a better life than my children...  (well....... so they say!!!!!)

Im off now, this is making me depressed.

please be assured, she will be well looked after and taken care of........ I will make sure of that....  she will get all she needs from the vet when they go for their check up.

thanks

LynEva, all we know about you is what you've told us.

If our responses are depressing you, think how much your information has depressed us ...

I'm glad to hear she is going to get health checked before she leaves. 

This, however, is very different from getting her parents eye tested, hip and elbow scored.  These are specialist tests that cannot be done by your own vet (xrays can be taken by your vet but need to be sent away for scoring).  You can still get your bitch scored and tested, but it will take time and extra cost.  These are things that should have been done before you bred her.  Was the sire tested? 

Your local Vet can only listen to the pup's heart,take her temperature, look into her eyes and ears etc to make sure that there is no discharge, look for a hernia etc.  He cannot test for hip or elbow dysplasia, as these require X-ray and the plates to be read by a Radiologist.  An Opthalmologist must test for TRD, GPRA, CPRA, HC, and these need to be done annually as they can develop latter in life.
So you see there is so much more to breeding puppies than to put a dog together with a bitch.

LynEva, it would now be completely irresponsible for you to consider selling, or even giving away these pups. You say you need to sell to be able to pay the vets fees :(  How on earth are you going to pay any costs for treatment of these pups if it should be found that they suffer from HD, OCD and PRA etc.  Which will run into the thousands of £.  Your irresponsible breeding of your bitch does make you liable, sorry but this is how it works.  You have admitted that no tests were done to exclude these hereditary defects in Labs so your pups and yourself may now suffer the consequences.  To sell a pup from untested parents to some poor unsuspecting purchaser is unbelievable!!!!!  I assume you will write up a contract stating that there no test were done and you will be liable for all costs if these defects come to light.  You do realise that the purchaser will have every right to ask you to do this.  I suggest you keep the pups, this would be the only right thing to do.

Oh yes, and please try to find out more about your breed.  We have told you the ONLY colours that Labs come in , but you persist in telling us you have a golden.  IT IS YELLOW!!!!!!!

Wow, Jeangenie, those mismarks are incredible.  Lovely looking dogs, but my, the colour.  I wonder how common that is over this side of the pond, in Canada?  I'm just a pet owner and not so knowledable about the breeding and genetics so If I had seen any of those dogs I would have thought they were part coon hound, or  G.shepherd or boxer.  Thanks for the link.

There are some extraordinary-looking dogs pictured, aren't there? I was amazed when I saw them!

WOW is all I can say I never knew labs came in such lovely colours are there any breeders in the UK?