Hi,
I have a Border Collie who just gave birth yesterday to 2 beautiful baby boys. Hoping you guys can offer suggestions for the one boy. He was the second to be delivered, all went well and he nursed literally all night long. He is a lot smaller than the first but is extremely vigorous about eating. Problem is shortly after he started nursing I noticed he was making weird gurggling noises so I watched him as he was nursing. He sucks really hard and furiously getting maybe half of the milk down his stomach with the other half coming out his nose. He has to stop nursing to sneeze it out. But after keeps on nursing. His stomach is gettin a good amount just not real pot bellied full like his brother. Took him to the vet this morning, she checked for a cleft palate and found nothing structurally wrong with him. Said he looked healthy and active. Checked his lungs but said he was clear, and the noise was only coming from fluid in his nose. She put him on antibiotics just in case he does get some in his lungs to prevent pneumonia. She said she thinks he is just an overzealous eater and gets too excited filling his mouth with too much milk at one time causing the rest to come out his nose. Suggested we try bottle or syringe feeding him a little very often then placing him on mom to finish. I tried this and the same thing happens when he's on mom. I'm new to this  forum and hoping you guys with much experiance may be able to advise me, will he work this out or what do I need to do? How often should I suppliment and how much if any. This is my first time as a breeder and the mom's first time also. I had a breeder friend who was here helping, but she has ran out of idea's. Should I be really worried about this little guy? Has anyone had this experiance before? Please help I don't want anything to happen to this little guy.Also mom is showing a lot of intesest in them but still tends to leave the box to nap a little. I make her get in and nurse every half hour, if she has'nt already. She does lay down and stay with them for nursing and licks and loves on them for a while after, cleaning their bottems. Do most moms stay in the box all the time? Sorry for the long post and all the questions.

I had the same in my recent litter, one of the pups although big and healthy at birth, lost a fair bit of weight overnight first night, although he looked as though he was feeding.  We had to bottle feed him due to his lack of interest in mum, he fed well from the bottle but always sounded bubbly and occasionally had milk coming out of his nose!  I persevered with the hand rearing, he has had to have two courses of anti-biotics.  He is now nearly 8 weeks old, still small and still bubbly but doing really well.  He was vet checked 4 times over the past 7 weeks, no cleft pallet no problems they could see.  The bubbly is not his chest, more throat, when he was 4 weeks old he had a really runny nose......green (like a child's snotty nose) so another course of anti-biotics.  Today, although he sounds a little rattly he is absolutely fine and quickly catching up weight wise.

My vet seems to think that his air ways are still small and fingers crossed he will eventually catch up and be 100%......we will keep him until this time.

With regards to the feeding amount, we were bottle feeding 2ml of Welpi every 2 hours both day and night, but this was because he wasn't getting anything from mum.

Good luck with the little chap, I hope he continues to do well.

Hi,
  Thanks Sandra for your quick reply. Sounds like the one big differnce between this one and yours is he really wants to nurse off mom in fact he's almost always clampped on sucking, hardly sleeps just constantly trying to nurse in between blowing out milk from his nose. I tried bottle feeding and he does not like it, just want's mom's milk. Syringe feeding is the only way I can get stuff in him (a little at least). With his mom he has an awesome sucking reflex and amazing clamping power. Just figure he must not be getting enough or he would not stay clampped on almost all the time. The other baby nurses very often but not for long periods, then sleeps. So this one obviously feels like he never gets enough. Don't you think?  The bigger baby always has a huge full belly, this one has milk in his tummy just not tons like the other. So do I keep pushing the syringe feeding along with mom's milk, or do you think he's getting enough based on my discription?

Difficult to say without seeing him, but is it possible that he may of just not mastered the technique of sucking and breathing at the same time???

Maybe so Val. Nice to see another person reply. I know it's really hard to give advise over the net. The vet did think we should try supplimenting him a little, but at the same time said she thought his belly looked FULL ENOUGH (whatever that means). Said if he did'nt get enough over night he would not be so fiesty today, and might not have made it. So I quess I will just keep a close eye on his wieght and continue to syringe suppliment if he'll allow me.
Thanks for replies and if you come up with more idea's let me know. I'll keep you all informed.

I wouldn't suppliment unless it was REALLY necessary.  If he is content and his tummy is rounded, then I'd leave him be.

So in other words would you consider( REALLY necessary ) ,as only if he stops gaining any wieght, stop's trying to feed from mom, shows lack of energy or starts crying,etc. He certainly is constantly drinking compared to the other fat bellied baby. Definatly tries really hard poor fella. Hate to see him work so hard for so much to get blowed out his nose. Of course I guess if he's losing so much he has to nurse constantly to make up for it. Val have you ever heard or delt with a baby with this problem? Just curious if this happen's very often to puppies?

No, I haven't had a pup that I've been worried about.  They are all different.  Some suck for comfort, just like babies.  Some do have to make more of an effort.  If he "he stops gaining any wieght, stop's trying to feed from mom, shows lack of energy or starts crying,etc" exactly what you have mentioned, then I would start to worry.

I think maybe this pup's just over-enthusiastic and unco-ordinated, many human babies are the same and I've known kittens the same.  I would only supplement if mum didn't have any milk and the pups were crying for food (can't miss that one ) as long as the pup is gaining weight daily (do you weigh them and record the results?) and content I wouldn't supplement, if he's trying to learn to suckle properly then you may be confusing him by feeding him on a syringe/bottle.

Could also be signs of cricopharyngeal achalasia or mega-oesophagus, the only way you would know for sure is by an x-ray later on in life.  Sometimes it's not too severe and dogs don't need any treatment. 

Hopefully for you it's nothing like this but I would definitely be worried if a pup of 8 weeks was still making the gurgling sound etc.  I had a dog many years ago where my friends were saying that it was just like baby's they do the same and their muscles aren't developed properly, I wasn't happy with this and at 8 months had the dog x-rayed to be told that it was ? mega-oesophagus but the muscle on one side hadn't developed properly.  A few months later he was fine and never had any problems for the rest of his life and never needed to be fed with his bowl up high, so it's hard to say.

Well the poor baby is not doing so well. Still wants to nurse BAD, but is sneezing and gurggling out more, and more milk out his nose each time. Took him back to the vet. They ran a scope down him and still could not find anything wrong. But really bad news they said his lungs are now full of fluid.Said his chances are VERY, VERY small. They told us we could go to the emergancy hospital and have a stomach tube put in him. We called and talked to them only to be informed that they would not do this till we try tube feeding for awile. We are losing this poor little pup!!! We have tried so hard. They said to take him off mom and tube him or he will drown in his mom's milk. I have gotten him to bottle feed a TINY, TINY bit. If held in a certain manner he seems to get it down. But still wants little to do with the bottle. Does not seem to try real hard unless with mom. Feeling hopeless.

I had a whole litter at one time that did what you are describing.  They were very healthy robust puppies but took in so much milk that I believe the mom's milk was coming in so hard they couldn't swallow fast enough and it would come through their noses.  It slowed down as they grew and her milk supply adjusted to their needs.  In the beginning she was producing so much that I put hot packs on her so she wasn't engorged.  it would just gush in their mouths when they sucked on the nipples.
They were perfectly healthy. 
If you have any questions you can contact me privately also.

Darlene

can you  tube feed him to see if he can get past this?   Is he feeling warm enough?
don't feed him if he is too cool.  It sounds like his nursing is continuing to add to the problem now.  I think you said he is on antibiotics.  He sounds like he needs to be tube fed if he won't drink from the bottle. 
I feel for you right now

Ahh so sorry to hear this fingers crossed!  I know it's so hard after just losing a pup at 6 days.  Keep up the good work.

I am really feeling for you at this terrible time.  I haven't had any experiences of puppies but when I have raised orphaned rabbits/kittens etc one thing I had to be extra careful was them taking too much milk and the milk getting on their lungs as the success rate grately decreased.  One of the signs of the milk/liquid on their lungs was it coming out of their nose.  I know it is of no help to you at all but I just thought I would reply to show you you are not alone and we are all thinking of you.  Good luck to your little fella x

Edited as never read to the bottom :-)

Sorry to hear that the little one has went down hill. Will keep fingers crossed.

Poor wee mite :(  If he's so keen on mum, have you tried putting him on a nipple that the other one has already fed from?  Perhaps if there isn't so much milk coming out he'll be able to swallow all of it instead of getting too much.

In my expereince most bitches will not leave the whelping box for about the first 3 days.  At this time I have to drage them out for the loo.  After this they will lie outsdie the box.