I need some advice please with my 14 month old FCR. Although she is very enthusiastic at retrieving she will not give up a retrieve on return. She obviously wants to play so I refuse to get into a pulling game with her. Any advice would be welcome.
P.S. I  am doing gundog training with her and any advice would be appreciated. I use a whistle for her recall and she returns quite well. I am using the whistle to try and get her to sit at a distance and she does this at a distance of approx 6/8 ft.

Hi,

Where do you live? I might be able to put you in touch with a "trining group" Also I find that although they aren't official training groups many FCR owners will get together for a bit of training...... We're just daft like that! I am going to be having a training get together very soon, as I have a visitor coming to stay who is interested in British training methods. If you are close enough perhaps you might like to consider coming along.

I have had the same problem with one of my dogs and with other FCr's I've trained. There are several ways around this, perhaps you might like to join here or send me a message? Becky who replies to messges here is the Ft secretary of the Society, so you would find her advice worth following.

To send a message click on the messages icon by the posting. Failing that join and I'll send you my email address.

Regards
Polly & Foxpath Flatcoats.

As Polly says - difficult to say without seeing what's happening.

Posession of an article is something that can be picked up on very early when we do our puppy character assessments at 7 weeks - we can then tell the new owners if the pup has any little quirks like this (yes - you can see this very early on), so they can organise their training to suit.

I would't even try to do any retrieves for a while, and certainly don't play tug of war - ever - you've worked this out yourself!     You need consolidate a good basic recall,, which it sounds as if you do, but keep working on it that she comes right into you - almost up your nose!!

Then go back to getting him to hold it in the 'sit' in front of you in the front room.  Personally, when she's done this quietly, I would give a little treat in exchange for the article, but some would disagree.  At this stage, banish completely all of her own toys from the floor  - it confuses the dog's mind.   She needs to know that the dummy is yours, and be focussed on you.  She's outgrown toys, in my reckoning.

Please tell us where you are, and we can advise of suitable trainers in your area.    You need a trainer who is quiet and not going to wind the dog up - unfortunately not all trainers come into this catagory!

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Hi, the main reason that dogs do not give up the article is  because an element of competition has been introduced usually by the owner demonstrating the importance of the object by trying to get it off the dog, not unaturally the dog quickly grasps that an object of value to the handler must therefore be important enough for him to keep.

It is a common error in retrieve training.

The first thing to do is to ensure that the dog understands that the object has no intrinsic value, it is only the equivalent of a £5 note or a lottery ticket, ie for what it can be traded in for.

Again, most retrieve training is not done correctly IME with incremental steps so that only ONE criteria is being changed and trained for at a time.

You must decide exactly WHAT you are training:

the wait
the mark
the pick up
the hold
the carry
the return
the present
the release

etc etc etc

Most people move on far too quickly and problems "appear" because of less than thorough basic training and understanding.

Basically you have a recall problem, not a retrieve problem per se but as you have merged the two behaviours this is why it is all going pear shaped.

Go back to the beginning and train the dog just to pick up objects from the floor next to you.

Clicker training is an excellent tool for this purpose.

dogs never outgrow toys IME

Hi Guest

If you contact Sheila Neary on collarmflatcoats@hotmail.com  she runs the National Training programme on behalf of the Society FT Sub Committee - she will be able to put you in touch with a suitable trainer.

Becky

Hello there,

I deal with plenty of dogs who will not give up their chews/toys/stolen objects, etc, etc. I usually see these dogs as a result of a behavioural problem (mainly possessiveness - which may include aggression associated with it).

The exercise to teach a dog to give up items willingling is very simple, but the trick is to start with an object the dog is not so excited about and swap it for something better. So, start with her most boring toy, start playing with her, then have a tasty titbit at hand (e.g. a SMALL bit of cheese, ham, chicken, hotdog or whatever she likes). Put your hand out flat and say 'thank you'/'give'/'drop' or whatever word you like (I like 'thank you'). At the same time put the titbit by her nose with the other hand. She will need to let go of the object to take the titbit (if your hand is correctly placed, it will drop on your hand). Praise her happily and give her the toy back and then run away so that she has to chase you with the toy. You can then repeat the process. She will soon learn the rules of the game (control the games and you will be controlling the dog). If she does not come near you, then show her the titbit first, she will soon want to follow you. Make sure she comes TO YOU when you do these swaps at first, do not go to her, or she will think you want the item or a game. Start sitting on the floor and use a boring toy. Once she is completely fluent at giving up that toy (this will take at least 2-3 days of constant swapping), then start with a higher-value toy. Carry on until you can swap a pig's ear for a small bit of cheese! If you can do this, then you know your dog will give up items willingly upon command (e.g. 'thank you') and you will now only reward with a titbit every so often (always reward with praise though). It is very important to fade titbits away, otherwise you are bribing the dog and she will not give it up unless she sees the titbit. After the initial training, hide the titbit in your pocket or treatbag, so that she will not know whether she is going to get a titbit or not. This makes dogs work harder.

The important thing is to give the toy back most of the times at first (ideally all the time) and then later you will be putting it away sometimes and sometimes not. You will need to work at this 15-20 times per day, so that the behaviour becomes automatic and the dog does not think she is going to get a game or lose the object. Depending on how much work you put in, it should take you 1-2 weeks.

It usually takes me this long to stop dogs growling, snapping and biting when owners/children attempt to take chews/toys/items away from the dog.

All the best!

Patty

Can I just say that all of the above was very good to read and explained the way to correct the problem very clearly.

It reminds me what is so good about this board.

Thank you everyone.