Here we go again...  Have read yet again about a staffie attacking a child.  How many more of these media reports do we have to read and be expected to come down on any side other than the dog involved!

I have had it up to here with only negative press on the kind and loving staffie. 

What happened?  If you read the nationals, it was the dogs fault.  A 3 year old was bitten by a staffie and resulted in her needing an operation on her eye.  She is the girl who may "may never stop crying".

According to reports a staffie dog was tied up whilst a party was going on and a 3 year old got bitten.  Whilst I have every symapathy for this little girl and her parents, my heart also goes out to the dog involved.

Questions should be asked as to why the dog attacked.

Why was the dog tied up?  If it was known to be aggresive then he should never have been there.

What kind of responsibility did the childs parents have over her?  Had she been brought up to treat animals with respect?

As a staffie owner of a beautiful 9 month old white bitch called Poppy, I have never ever seen an ounce of aggression in her.  Although we do not have children ourselves, she has always been extremely tolerant and playful with children we know.  She adapts herself to any persons strentgth.  She plays rougher with my other half than she does with me and is even more gentle with children.  yes,she will lick them to death but never have i heard so much as a growl.

However, if a child or anyone played too rough then I would accept that a growl would be a warning sign.

I have read all the typical national newspaper reports who concentrated on how a SBT savaged a child.  I have also read the local Huddersfield press where the owner has said that the girl had been kicking the dog and pulling it's tail!  If he was tied up then how could he escape such torture?  Was this his only means of defense?

I have had enough of generally only hearing the side of the injured party. Yes its very sad and I can understand their anger.  But surely it should not be directed at the dog himself.  Should their anger not be directed at either the owners or indeed themselves.  Had the little girl not been taught to treat animals with respect?

Anyone responsible person who owns a staffie ensures that the breed maintains the good reputation it deserves.  Of only two breeds, the staffie is deemed totally reliable.

Had the dog been properly socialised or had it been kept outside on a rope since it arrived in the household?  Never interacting with humans at all. 

Yet again we are lead to believe it is the fault of the dog, hence the reason he was put down. 

Staffies are classed as dangerous dogs in some countries but those that really know them and put in the time to socialise and train them will never encounter any problems.  Yes, they may be aggressive with other dogs but that is not always the case.  Poppy has been to classes to meet other dogs and has interacted very well with others on her walks, both on and off lead.  She has never started a fight.  In fact she has been more interested in saying hello to other dog's owners rather than getting involved in the tiresome rigmoral of sniffing round their dogs. 

I have never owned a staffie before until we took on Poppy at 8 weeks old.  We have done our very best to teach her right from wrong and have introduced her to many different experiences.

If she were to ever attack anyone then I would firstly question what I had done wrong.  I would then question what had provoked the attack.  Only as a last resort would I agree to have her put down.

In this case, where was the parental responsibility?  To allow a child to kick and torment a dog is only ever going to end in disaster.  If this is not the case then I can only assume that the dog  had never interacted with anyone.

What a sad case for staffies yet again!!

here here couldn't have put it better myself :(

Hi and yes very well put. I have 6 staffords and would never keep a dog of any breed that showed any aggression to adults or kids.
I have 3 children so most weekends my house is full of kids. visitors are told to repect my dogs and they will repect them. If a child comes round who is nervous of dogs the dogs are put away. Kids can be cruel to any animal if they are not taught to respect them.
Gwen

Hi,
NOT!!! all children are cruel to dogs!!! NOT all parents are
irresponsible. Some Staffs are being badley breed and are
getting very vicious.I agree that years ago it way GSD
that were in the news.They are also guide dogs and a beauitful breed.
There is a lot of staffs being breed NOT by reputable breeders or being
KC they are being breed by anyone and sold to anyone.
Have you ever seen a child bitten by a staff when there jaw locks
and the damage it does. don't forget the dog is half the size of the child.
Jack russells also can do a lot of damage to small children. I have seen
a child bit by his own dog and had 24 stiches in his face.
BUT!! a staff does a lot more damage if it is vicious.
Regards
Denese

I agree that the dog should not have been tied up at a childs party.I also agree that the dog was put in a bad situation.However having read the story(which was sensationalised by the press as usually) what makes me think is that the dog then bit 2 men who were trying to help the child.Now an 'bite and retreat' can be understandable at times but to attack and then bite 2 more people in the process of being 'removed' is IMO a no no in any situation.
I love staffs...have owned them and found them to be wonderful dogs but any dog of any breed that does this should IMO opinion be PTS....very sad but not worth risking another childs life.
Archer

The problem is that we are unlikely to ever find out a true account of what happened.

I agree that a dog who also bites two others trying to get it off the child is very suspect, but we have no idea what the child (or another child) did to the dog - children inserting things into dogs' ears is not unknown.  Although a dog living with young children should be very child friendly, being tied up outside in the heat with possibly many young children tormenting it, it's not surprising that a dog snaps.

Whatever the circumstances, it could have been so easily avoided by putting the dog somewhere safe from the heat and excited children.

This would be a bad story for any breed & sorry to say at the end of the day both the child(who may or may not have been the cause)& the dog will pay a high price.

Basically children(especially very young ones) & dogs should never be together unsupervised by a capable adult & both children & dogs must have respect for each other, then incidents like this would become much less common

Also was it on one of the extremely hot days that we've had recently.  How long was it tied up for? Was it in the sun or shade?  Did it have water etc.?  There are so many factors but of course we don't get to see the full story.

Please remember that some staffies are not KC reg & are of dubious backgrounds :-(

It does make me mad to see these stories as I love staffs & have owned them for years, but there can be bad ones (Not that I have ever met 1, even helping at staffie rescue & meeting loads at shows), there can be bad dogs in all breeds.

I also wondered why the dog was tied up? Was it hot?, what did the child do to the dog?

Did anyone also notice the picture of the dog in the paper - if they had put a picture of a typical staffie curled up on the sofa with a cat & several children - it would of come accross different.

No where did I read - 'his is unusuall as they are on the whole very good with children'

I do feel for the girl & her family & hope she is OK soon

Jo

My staff is not KC reg and he is of lovely temperament and I am confident he hasn't a nasty bone in his body.Before ppl jump on me for this, at the time I got him i didn't realise the importance of being KC reg i thought it was only important if you wished to show the dog, I know now that isn't the case but there you go. Just because a dog is not registered it doesn't make them automatically nasty.
Also the pic in the paper wasn't even of the actual dog!!! Trust the press to pick the nastiest staff pic they could find. It's no wonder the breed has such a bad rep. :(
It's a real shame that this incident even occured as it seems it could have been prevented in many ways and two lives would not have been ruined the way they have. :(

Sorry voors - I did not meen all un-KC reg dogs were bad :-(

I have had 2 myself & my SIL has the sopiest one ever.

I have seen 'staffies' that look more like a cross though & the owners have had quite a few temperment probs though.

Jo

I would also agree with the point that some staffies look more like a cross and possibly have temperament probs.
My SIL has a staffie from a friend who bred her staff which she originally bought in the Loot (of all places!).  Neither dogs are KC registered.
My SIL's dog is approx 4 years old and although lovely with people whom she knows, NOT good at all with strangers or other dogs.....
She's ok with cats as she grew up from being a pup with two cats.......(my Tess hates cats!!)
Even the pizza delivery boy has refused to deliver to the house anymore as the dog nearly breaks the door down trying to get out and get to him!!!  Thing is she's as daft as a brush, and sulks and cries when my SIL and family are getting ready to go out or go to bed.... scary!!!
Therefore I would agree with Tennostaffs about the temperament problems!
Doesnt mean all unregistered dogs are the same, but just an experience I thought I'd share!

Anyway what I'm trying to say is, I'm certainly under no illusions (not that anyone was suggesting I am!!) as to how different two animals could possibly be!!! 

yes gsd's are a beautifull dog. but in the wrong hands they can do damage.Yes ther are a lot of people out there breeding for greed and not for the good of the breed.
If you look on the net and in the free adds. every week you find hundreds of adds for non kc dogs for sale.
All we can do as responsible breeders and owners is try and point people in the right direction.
give them help and advice and keep our fingers crossed that they dont just buy the first dog that comes up.

  Regards gwen

I just wanted to say that just as staffie's get a bad press, so do GSD's. Of course they can be dangerous in the wrong hands, but so can any dog in the wrong hands, reglardless of breed. The problem is that some breeds have become more associated with these kind of problems because they are breeds that have attracted certain types of people - people who want dogs to support their image (tough dog, tough person etc.), people who take a popular breed of dog and breed in a haphazard manner in order to make a profit, people who want a dog for security but who do not train them properly (see my first point) etc. etc. The breeds have been denounced, but it is, again, the owners responsibility for their behaviour. I think that on every post I have read regarding staffie' s(and there have been a large number, particularly considering I haven't been a member of this site for very long) as soon as a media report on a staffie's behaviour is cited on here, someone invariably mentions GSD's as a similar breed in respect of their reputation. A properly bred, trained and responsibly owner german shepherd dog is a loyal, friendly, family orientated dog. Any dog in the wrong hands though can become aggressive. Any dog off a lead and untrained can either threaten or attack another dog or a human being, and this goes for the smallest to the largest breeds.

I am in no way criticising comments on GSD's made in this thread, but I wanted to reiterate that these problems are caused by the OWNERS and not the dogs, and as a result of this, a nuber of breeds get consistently derrided in the media (and might I suggest occasionally on this site also?) when the problem lies with people.

Denese

I did not post this with the intention of upsetting any parents out there. 

I did NOT say and I don't think insinuate that ALL children are cruel and ALL parents are irresponsible.  I tried to give a balanced view which is why I also said that the dog's owners could also have been responsible if the dog had lacked proper socialization.  They were also being irresponsible for keeping a dog in extreme heat, tied up and so unable to retreat somewhere he felt comfortable.

I agree with others that there can be rogue dogs in every breed but I would personally prefer for proper investigations to take place before ordering a dog to sleep.  If not, it is all to easy to blame the dog involved and therefore the reasons are never established as to why the attack took place.  Without these investigations, if the child was to blame then she will never be brought up to treat animals with respect. If the owners were to blame they will get another dog and again not socialise it properly.  And yes, if it is established that the dog was a rogue one then of course he should be put to sleep!

Unfortunately, this is the media and rest assured they will give a biased view and no doubt dramatise the situation making it sound worse than it is.  I quite agree, there are a large number of factors to consider when a dog attacks.

However, regardless of what those factors are, I note this is a staffie that's in the frame and posting this case on a public forum is only going to publicise the fact that a staffie has bitten a child leading to more stereotyping and prejudices for some.

The point is, is that any dog can bite if it's pushed beyond its bite threshold.  Each dog's bite threshold will differ depending on breeding and environmental factors.

Unfortunately, it's the child and the dog that suffers in this case and that is a very sad case of affairs indeed.  :-(

Message to Denese

it is a over hyped, sensantionalist and simply untrue fact that Staffords have 'lock jaws'. As any one educated in the breed will tell you they do have strong jaws which is part of the requirement in the breed standard but they do not have lock jaw as you have said.

Here Here, luxnallstaffs!

How many times are you all going to have this conversation?  Surely it's been discussed to death by now.

I agree - it was a dog that was in this situation and the breed should not come into it. Whatever the breed, it is a very sad situation and we will never know the circumstances. Children, sadly do quite often get bitten by dogs, (of all breeds, including cross breeds) and some discussion always takes place, but to keep harping on about a particular breed is as counter-productive as the headlines in the papers. It is BAD BREEDING and BAD OWNERSHIP which should be being addressed, not a particular breed.

Yep - bored of it now, funny how its a 'guest' that has posted, something suspicious about that!

Enfielrotts

Would just like to say that it was me who posted this message.  It was pure accident signing on as "guest".  It was because my OH was logged on to our laptop.  Innocent reason so no need for anyone to be suspicious!

Like many people I had always had misconceptions about the SBT as a breed. However, after being introduced to a few by my OHs friends and customers I began to doubt my beliefs of them.  I saw not an aggressive breed, but the most sweet natured, comical and loving dogs I had ever been fortunate to meet. 

It was because of this and what their owners said about them that led me to be more open minded.  My OH have always wanted a dog but not untill we were in the position to dedicate time for training and socialising. Once we found ourselves in this position we researched the breed intensely.  We don't have children but intend to in future.  We found upon researching that staffies are excellent with children.  Thats not to say that it should be taken as gospel and of course proper socialisation and training is important.  Our next step was to find a good breeder which did take time but we had to be patient. 

Eventually we found one and after visiting we eventually decided on making Poppy a part of our family.  We have only had her for 8 months now but we know that we could not be without her.  She is a great representative for the breed.  It is because of my initial reluctance to accept that staffies are suitable family pets and my change of mind after research and meeting others that I now feel passionate about the breed.

I'm sorry if some of you are bored with the same old discussion but it is new to me.  I have made only a few postings on this forum and do not feel I should have to justify my postings.  I have recently experienced people crossing the road to avoid Poppy but have met many more people who are more than willing to make a fuss of her. I always thank them for taking the time. 

So please forgive me for this posting but because of my passion for staffies after only 8 months, I think I am entitled to vent my rage somewhere and where better on a dog lovers forum.

Luxnallsstaffs and everyone else who does this,

If you feel that people have the wrong idea about Staff's, in general or certain points such as the 'lock jaws', instead of putting your point across as a critisism, why don't you try to educate them? Many people have sterio typical views of staffs, and their owners, is it was me and I felt I had to defend my breed (and myself) I wouldn't be trying to make it worse by coming across as an arrogant, aggresive, 'know it all'!

If you want people to learn more about the well bred, well trained, and 'soft' Staffies, tell them, don't ram it down their throats. This sort of action only leads to an argument, and the person learns nothing.

You alone can not beat the power of the press, and the rumours that float about, but if in your time on CD you tell only 5 people of your experience with Staff's, and they all go on to tell 5 more people, in the real world, that is already 25 people who have heard the other side of the coin. If you, and others on CD I could mention, carry on wih this 'them and us attitude', and 5 people see that, they may go and tell 5 people in the real world, that they met "another one of those Staffie owners". Therefore only reinforcing the ideas that some people have.

Obviously you are very defensive of your breed, and so you should be, I would be very much the same, but instead of having a go at someone because they don't know as much as you about these dogs, try teaching them.

Before I started coming on CD, in my ignorance I did think that ALL Staffies were nasty, but since then I have spoken to a few people and they have convinced me that they are not all nasty, and to add I have never known a Staff personally bad or good.

Stop being so aggresive, and people may just start to listen :D

Natalie, thank you for your post.  I hope that the message that I posted wasn't arrogant or aggresive, it certainly wasn't my intention.  You have made some very good points which I wholly agree with!  I also agree that yes, this topic has been discussed until people are blue in the face!!
However, it's nice to know that at the very least, one person has changed their views on those lovely dogs......

NO TT, I am sure the people who I am talking about know who they are :D

Its not Staffs will people please stop dumping all staffies in the same group.

Its like saying all men are violent, just because some are badly brought up doesnt mean we can tar them all with the same brush!

That's the point we ALL 'try' to get across Lisa, many of us love staffs and would not dare call them all 'nasty' any dog can attack a child if left alone.  The thing is this has been a topic discussed over and over and over again and most of us are supportive to al the great staffs out there, I don't deny that there are some very nasty Rotties out there but then most are great with kids, other dogs, cats etc - if this topic was about a rottie I would think it was a shame and whilst it does not do the breed any favours we have to face facts, if careless breeding continues I am sure we will keep hearing these stories! Shame but true!  I would certainly not continue to post the same thing over again!