Please i am slowly at screaming point so be gentle with me :) I have been trying this crate training for a week and a half now to no avail she cries all night she cries durnig the day she even cries if im in the same room.I have'nt given in and looked or let her out while the crying persists its just she is very clingy as soon as we are out of sight off we go i know these things take time but i have never had a dog like it the nipping is unbearable my feet are so sore its unreal:( we have tried everything you people have suggested and thankyou for them suggestions but they havent worked we say NO! in a stern voice she barks and lunges at us We remove her from the room for 5 mins she comes back in and here we go again im at my wits end as to what to try next i don't want the crate upstairs not that it would make a difference as i have been on the sofa next to her for 3 days and she still persists in crying can you help ?  have i got a dog with a problem? or is it me? thanks

i think you just have a very strong willed stubborn dog as I know staffs can be. If dogs are anything like children they'll be able to sense that you're wound up and at the end of your tether and this could cause them to play up more, try to keep calm and walk away for a bit if it gets to much.
I don't know what other ppl think but maybe going to training classes would help as i think with what you have been doing you should at least have seen some improvement?? Remember you have to be consistent with your treatment/punishment for the nipping and the crying it's no good doing it for most of the time but the odd time giving in as this will be enough to reinforce the behaviour. I'm sure one of the others will be along soon to give you more advice as I don't really have any experience of this as my dog was pretty good as a pup. Sorry i can't help more :-(

Thanks voors i will be going to puppy classes as soon as she is allowed out her next jab is 7th july and then a week after that she can go out its just the barking back when we say No is quite frightning for the kids and worrying for me i hope she turns out ok for her sake and mine i am doing everything by the book ive read gwen baileys perfect puppy and several staffy books and the all state to a short sharp NO but it definately does not work as for the crying it is horrendous

Have you tried distraction ? That is throwing something like training discs so they land out of her sight & when she stops praise & treat her Distraction does work with human kids that have tantrums

Yes sadly i have no good she still persists in what she was doing :)

I had all that you describe with my working cocker when he was a pup.  The only thing I can suggest is to give no attention at all.  When the nipping starts, pick her up and put her out of the room for 30 seconds - not 5 minutes because by the time she comes back in she will have forgotten what she has been put out for and will be so excited to see you she will start again.  If she comes in and starts again - don't look at her just take her out again.  You may have to do this 10 or 12 times but she will eventually get the message.  When she comes back in, try and get her attention focussed on something like a toy.  It worked for me and I had a real stubborn wee sod.  I can only say that they do grow out of it if you are consistent.  Also, don't let the kids get her wound up.  It could be that she is getting too high.  Another thing, do you find that this nipping etc gets worse when she is tired?  If so, I used to just wrap Jack in a fleece and cuddle him really close until he stopped wriggling - 20 seconds later he was asleep.  A bit like kids - they get more grouchy when they are tired.  Hope this helps a bit.  It worked for me.  The main thing I would say is not to even acknowledge what is happening as she is doing it for attention and any attention you give her will be worthwhile.  Good luck.

When I got my pup I thought pups were lovely wee cute things that let you cuddle them all day long.  THe reality of it all soon hit me.  I got a tazmanian devil who was all teeth and claws.  It sounds like you have the same!!!!!  Poor you.

Annie

Indeed i do have a demon (he he) No it doesnt seem its when shes tired she nips a bit during the day at me and my husband but when the kids get home from school OH MY GOD MAD DOG she runs riot nipping barking ay my son mostly and my poor son has done nothing he ends up in tears because he thinks she hates him as he is only 6 its hard to explain to him that she a baby my daughter on the other hand is 9 she tells her No she carries on regardless but rarely barks at her ????? puzzeled me too

The pup sees and is treating the kids as litter mates.  The mad dog bit is acitally over excitement and delight at seeing them.

How do the kids interact hith the pup.  Do they physically play with it?  When I had pups and kids were small no playng between pups and kids was allowed.  By this I mean a dogs idea of play withich is rough and tumble, especially a staff as they like to play hard.  Pups had to learn that they only go human attention if they were quietly in a down.

I would sugggets having a lead on the pup when kids get home. 

They should be instructed not to make eye contact with the pup, and you can control pup with the lead with just a command of off or leave. 

Any sign of the pup calming down should be praised genlty.  Also strokiung very slowly when petting is calming as well as speaking quietly (kids don't they have excited hig pitched voices). 

Also Staffs are a vocal breed, as in back chatting snuffling growly talking etc, it is part of their charm and doesn't mean anything much other than being excited or pleased.

Once pup has calmed down allow her to gret the kids but again they should only interact when she is calm.  Stroke her very gently and slowly, instantly get up and turn away if she gets high.  You can step on the end of the lead or hold it to ensure she doesn't chase them.

They should never run around in her presense.  In other words she cannot be alllowed anything but supervised pats until she has self control, and learns that the kids are not littermates or exciting squeaky toys. 

I have never found the squeeling method for bite inhibition ever works with anythign but very sensitive pups, for those who love to play rough just makes the game better.

In my own expereince ignoring or slight aversion with slightly older more stubborn pups has worked.  For my breed a jet of water in the face to shcok them momentarily long enough to get a command in works well (I use a well rinsed frontline bottle set to jet, not mist), but staffs may find the water fun.

Good luck! :) Hudson is now 3 and a half years old and we tried to crate train him when he was 8 weeks. We had the same as you ...after 6 weeks of sleepless nights I gave up LOL We (and the neighbours) just couldn't hack it any longer. He just couldn't take to the crate, didn't matter what we did, treats, toys, you name it, we tried it LOL.

Have had 2 bitches since then that I have had no problem crate training at all ;)

Thanks thats reasurring:) hope it doesnt go on that long thanks for the good luck though sounds like i great fun

Sorry, it wasn't very reassuring was it? :p :p I meant to say really, I suppose, that NOT all dogs take to crate training :) Stick at it and you may find that yours is one of those who does :)

Hi trackie29,
I've just quickly skimmed the previous posts on your troubles with the crate and also nipping, so may have insufficient info ;)  First thing that springs to mind is that although 1.5 weeks is a heck of a lot of sleep to miss out on, it's not that long in terms of crate training a puppy starting at 8 weeks.  I'm not sure how you started off but I've found the easiest way to crate train is to put something of mine in the cage (t-shirt, PJs) and also feed the puppy *all* meals in the crate - all this done with the door open.  At random times I'll put a treat in too but don't care if the pup simply goes in to collect it!  That aside mine are only ever in a crate at bedtime, in my bedroom, when the pup is already well fed, toiletted and exhausted.  I expect at best 5 hours sleep before the little critter will need out and about so get up before the whining begins.  I've never left a puppy on it's own in another room to cry all night - personally it's not how I raise them but everyone is different.
As to the biting and barking behaviour - I note you say > "we have tried everything you people have suggested" < which possibly is the problem - too many suggestions hence too many different approaches and therefore a lack of consistency.  In such a short period between lack of sleep and needing advice about several issues at one, perhaps you have become increasingly confused about what's best to do and how to go about it ;)  which would be understandable!   Looking at it from the pup's point of view, her head must be in a total spin because she can't speak English or post on CD to get her points across :P
Try going back to basics with both the crate training and selecting ONE method of how to deal with the play biting issues and stick with your choices rigidly for at least the next 10 days.  Don't let anyone else in the family break the consistency of the regime you set up - structured and habitual methods of training with huge rewards for even a nano-second of desirable behaviour are the best way to instill good habits.  Whichever method you choose, good luck.  Teri :P  

Hi
I agree with everything Teri suggests similar to the way I crate trained except my crates are thier day time beds in the kitchen and I feed pup now 7m in hers every day I use them if I need to open all the doors in the house etc or if I dont want them jumping all over visitors and they use them to relax in usually both get in the same one!!
When I crate train I cover the crate with a blanket and some treats to nibble on plus a favorite toy and had no problem but maybe I've just been lucky.

Thanks Teri :) i feed her in her crate and i only put her in if i have to go out or at bed time although it was suggested to put her in when i am home so she could get used to it :0 i have more or less stuck with the NO! when she nips she looks at me and barks may only be a little yap still makes me jump (he he) little moo i will try a t shirt or something though did that with my other dog and it either worked or was a coinsidence   

I too can sympathise.  My boy used to nip, pinch, bark, throw toys at me and generaly drive me mad.  Tried all the strategies, which worked to a degree, but found myself putting him in his play pen when it all got too much.  He took this as a signal to go to sleep, nine times out of ten, and peace reigned.  When I let him out again if we did'nt play constantly the attention getting behaviour started again. 

He has settled now due to our determination not to pander to his ways, but it has taken a long time.

What really sorted him out was when we got our little girl puppy, he was twelve months old then, and she tormented the life out of him.  Payback for all the agro he gave us. 

I don't advocate getting another dog simply to keep the first company, we were going to have two any way and they have both been trained separately and together - that was hard work with two so younrg.  They are both lovely now and the best advice you can have is be consitent and hang on in there.

Hi again trackie :)

Did you read the article I linked to before by Ian Dunbar? Some of the advice on here will be conflicting because we each may have had different methods of success and our dogs may all have had wildly (poor choice of words :P ) different characters.  Personally I have taught all of mine bite inhibition by his methods - I just didn't know there were his methods at the time as most of the stages were advised to me many years ago by long term experienced breeders and owners - some of whom had trained pups before I was born ;)

I can't and certainly won't try and persuade you that this is the only way to go but I'm happy to assure you it has been 100% effective for each of my own 5 dogs and was the advice given to each of my 7 puppy owners and every one of them had success with it too.  I wouldn't use the word "No" either, as it may well be that you use that for a variety of instances (can be a bit like the Scot's saying "Come oan, get aff!")   Also bear in mind that if you do decide to follow the bite inhibition method of training, that you do not shut the pup out of a room or put it in a cage - it is important that you or the kids, OH whatever "leave" the pup so that it has the immediate association of game/fun over when the bite is too painful.  At only 9.5 weeks, you should still in reality be encouraging the bite in order to concentrate on reducing the level of force that the puppy puts into it.

regards, Teri :) 

Hi Teri yes i did read the thread and it was very helpful one question if you say not to use no then which phrase do you think is best? she drew blood today on my 6 year old and he was very upset says he doesnt want her in the same room bless him i tried to explain but kids dont understand hope she gets better :)

I'd say "Ouch" - that's an easy word for everyone in the family to remember rather than varying degrees of inability to "yelp" as convincingly as a littermate :)  Ian Dunbar covers the area of why children are more prone to be the target in the problems section of the article.    Fact is tiny needle like teeth do break the skin - even of adult humans - and while this is obviously painful, at the moment (8-12 weeks) there is no real danger in it.  The whole point of bite inhibition is that the puppy realises that his teeth making such contact can cause pain which has the consequence of his "friends" leaving him alone with no fun.  This would be taught by the mother if all puppies were allowed to remain with her until the optimum age which is thought to be 12 weeks - but that of course is not the optimum age for socialising a puppy with it's new family hence why they normally leave the dam at 8 weeks ;)

A young puppy cannot exert pressure with it's jaws in the same way as a developing puppy can - say 3/4 months +, and certainly you want this behaviour to be controlled and phased out entirely before the adut teeth start to come through around the 5 months mark.

Teri :)

Thanks Teri i seem unable to find the Dunbar advice could you give it to me again please :)

Sure it's here

Hope this works - it's still a bit early am for me to try the smart a## type :D

Did too   Teri  soooo

I also have a new staff pup and she whined and whined and whined the first couple of nights and days whenever she was in the crate.

It stopped as soon as I started feeding her in her crate. I think she realised that it wasnt such a bad place to be after all. She still objects highly to being put in there and whines when I am in the house and she wants out but nights are whine free and clean and I know she can't do herself (or my house) any damage!!

Hi i agree with Teri maybe you have taken to many suggestions on board with trying to stop the nipping,find one that you are comfortable with and stick to it for quite a while so the pup gets the message,also if you say when she yaps at you , you jump i think she knows she is worrying you and sees her opportunity to get one over on you, my pup is 14 wks on saturday and is still nipping ususally when tired or hungry,sometimes just attention seeking so i tend to try feeding first then a quick ball game in the garden hopefully if tired pup will settle down,if those dont work and it can only be attention seeking,i put my pup in its crate for only about 30 seconds and if she tries it again she gets put back in again until the time she comes out ignores us and finds a toy to play with or goes into the garden to demolish what plants are left.My pup barked at me a lot when told off at first so i stood up looked down on her and told her no very firmly it didnt work at first but you have to persist,let her know you are not frightened of her she will soon get the message.It must be worrying with children around i think you need to make sure everyone in the family goes with what you are doing and if she takes no notice of them you take over and carry on with whatever method you have chosen to go with she may jump up at you my pup did but they do soon realise if they cannot intimidate you there is no point in carrying on,it is such hard work especially when not getting much sleep i am sure if you keep up one method of training you will get there,my pup is still nipping although a lot less,reading from other postings on this site i have come to realise that it wont stop until teething is completely finished so i still have a while also it does slowly get better,hope this helps GOOD LUCK!!!!!

Good luck Trackie29.
Getting worried now lol, picking up my new puppy sunday.
So i may be on here a bit for advise, which i must say is sooooooo good.
Jane